Jet Jointer/Planer Combo

[Don Abele]

OK, I had originally discounted the Jet J/P combo unit as I was interested in the spiral head option. Well, I got an e-mail today from Byrd that they will have a spiral head available for the Jet in 2 weeks.

Using a couple of coupons I have (one from Byrd and one from Tools-Plus), I can now get the Jet J/P combo and a shelix head (which I'll have to install) for $2794 delivered!!! That's only $300 more than the Grizzly.

So, I know you guys have heard about both units - which one would you go for? They are very similar in most details.

Curt Harms - any update on your Jet? Comments?

BTW, I've given up on separate jointer and planer units. A 12" jointer is just too expensive and way too heavy for a single tool.

Be well,

Doc

[Matt Meiser]

Well, as I posted last week, I got a chance to put my hands on the Jet at Woodwerks in Columbus, OH. I was pretty impressed. The only odd thing was the finish on the tables, which it turns out is commonly used on higher end machinery. I've not seen the Grizzly, but there's nothing I saw on the Jet that would keep me from buying it after seeing it in person. I think the fact you don't need to remove the fence is a big plus over the Grizzly. I didn't hold a tape measure to it, but I thought the footprint was pretty compact.

[Jack Norfleet]

That is great news about the spiral head. I preferred the Jet but also wanted a spiral head capability. For me, the distinguishing factor is the fact that you don't have to remove the fence to switch from jointer to planer.

[Jameel Abraham]

Popular Woodworking gave a pretty good review of the Grizzly. I've heard from someone pretty high up at one of the magazines that the Jet is a much lighter machine, especially the fence supports which are stamped steel. The Grizzly got better reviews as coming very close to the quality of a Euro machine. The Grizzly is 150lbs. heavier, and has 4" longer beds. The Grizzly is also 5hp, Jet 3hp. I think with those factors, the Jet with a Byrd head should be equal to or less than the Grizzly. Flipping up one table on the Jet vs. removing the fence and flipping two tables is for me the difficult caveat. Then again, if you have room for separate machines, why would you want a combo? I'm holding out and saving pennies for either separates of just what I want (12" jointer, 15" spiral planer) or if a combo unit, a Felder or comparable unit. If I was strictly a hobbyist, I'd probably go with the Grizzly.

[Don Abele]

Matt, if you recall, the Grizzly unit is 45x60 overall with an actual footprint of only 19 1/2 x 26.

For the Jet, the only measurement I could find is 32x55 overall. Don't know what the actual footprint is.

The 13 inch difference in depth is due to the post that Grizzly uses for the fence. This makes the Jet much more appealing, but the fence appears quite flimsy. I'd rather have a sturdy, reliable fence which takes up more room, than a compact cheesy one.

Some other differences between the two:

Jet = 3HP Grizzly = 5HP
Jet = 529# Grizzly = 675#
Jet = Euro/Bridge blade guard Grizzly = "Porkchop" blade guard

Hopefully Curt will post with some sizes and additional comments about his Jet.

Be well,

Doc

[Don Abele]

Jameel, I was seriously looking at separates, because frankly it's what I really would prefer (especially the planer with 55" tables). But the Grizzly 12" jointer is $2300 by itself and weighs over 1000 pounds and can not be put on a mobile base (per Grizzly CS). That really swayed me back to the combo units. And when I found out I could get the Byrd head for the Jet, I fell back into the Griz vs Jet dilemma.

One thing I didn't mention is name brand. The Jet would have an actual Byrd Shelix head. The Grizzly unit has their version of the shelix head. Not sure that it really makes a difference, I've heard great things about their Byrd knock-off.

Be well,

Doc

[Derek Hansen]

So how much is just the shelix head for the Jet?

[Matt Meiser]

By footprint I meant the overall dimensions--I realize that's probably not the correct term. The measurements you quoted sound about right.

I thought the fence looked cheesy too in pictures. Its true that the brackets are stamped steel--but don't think like the fender of your car--think heavy. I could grab on the the fence and push/pull hard to deflect it--but could do about the same with the good 8" jointer fences too.

[Don Abele]

So how much is just the shelix head for the Jet?

$1095

The first batch will come off the line in two weeks.

Be well,

Doc

[John Scarpa]

Don,

I have been looking at both of these machines as well as I would like the extra jointing capacity. currently I have a 8" jointer and a lunch box planer. I like the smaller width of the JET for my limited space and the easy change over. It's good to hear that a Byrd head will be available, but not exicited about having to install it myself.

A positive for the Jet I think: Most work at the jointer is done with the fence set at 90 degrees. In fact I would guess that most of us rarely, if ever, change that setting. I do move my fence in board and out board to use different sections of the knives. I'm not concerned if the fence is a "bit" skewed after I move it. So maybe the design of the Jet fence won't be an issue. Would be nice to hear from someone that has used one!

Regards,

John

[Don Abele]

John, without instructions I changed out the head on my Jet 6" Jointer with the Byrd head in about an hour.

I did, however, send an e-mail to Jet to see if they are planning on a version with the helical head since they now sell all of the jointers and planers with them. Hopefully they'll realize this is an important upgrade they should have. I'll post when I get something back from them.

Be well,

Doc


BTW: You're spot on about the fence - I've NEVER moved mine off 90, but I do move it laterally to use different parts of the blades.

[Gary Sostrin]

For those of us that want one for the garage, I think I would prefer one with 3 hp (JET) because I do not want to change any existing wiring. I have already 230 V 20 amp service. I could put in a larger service but it would be surface mount. My 2 cents.

[Wade Lippman]

For those of us that want one for the garage, I think I would prefer one with 3 hp (JET) because I do not want to change any existing wiring. I have already 230 V 20 amp service. I could put in a larger service but it would be surface mount. My 2 cents.

I don't care about changing the wiring, but when I start my 3hp TS with the DC on the house lights dim if anything else (dryer, oven...) is on. I wouldn't want to try a 5hp motor.
I have a 200a service; anyone with more than that probably isn't looking at a combination machine. Or so it seems to me.

[Brodie Brickey]

$1095

The first batch will come off the line in two weeks.


Just for the head? Ouch!:eek:

I've always liked the thought of a combo machine for this toolset, but I already have a lunch box planar. Moving up to a machine like this only benefits on the jointer.

If I was getting the combo, I'd start without the byrd head and see how things turned out. Then switch in the head if I felt it was warranted. I understand that the helix head is great but the cost is prohibitive and if I wasn't working with birdseye maple or other highly figured wood, I'd probably skip it.

[Eddie Darby]

Customer service has to be factored in as well.

The problem with the Grizzly fence is that the back side of it has a guard that remains in place, so storage space is wasted. I asked an owner of it, and the answer was that it looked like you would need 33" for the unit.

From this thread that has pics of the Grizzly showing the backside:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=67644

[Jeffrey Makiel]

I agree that the Grizzly combo appears to have a fence support that doesn't seem to keep up with the theme that a combo machine's primarly goal is to help save space (at least for me). I also don't know why the fence must have a rack and pinion feature for something that gets moved on my jonter very infrequently.

A 150 lb difference between the Grizzly and Jet is substantial though. That's a lot of metal. However, I'm not convinced that I would ever need 5hp vs 3hp for my hobby work. I too, don't want to change electrical service. I've had a portable planer for 18 years and it only has about 1 hp (15A @ 120V). Three times the power should definately be sufficient.

It's great that Grizzly and Jet are now in the US market with these machines. I met the Steel City rep at Woodcraft a couple of months ago and he said that Steel City did not have a combo in the pipeline. However, in the European market (via internet), there are a lot of combo machines (other than MM, Hammer and Felder) out there at this price point. I wonder if there is a giant wave of these machines building up off our shore just waiting to see how the Grizzly and Jet do.

-Jeff :)

[Rod Sheridan]

Don, have you looked at the Laguna combination jointer/planer?

For me, the rack on the grizzly fence would be a show stopper in a machine that's meant to save space.

Regards, Rod.

[Douglas Robinson]

Don:

The Jet unites the infeed and outfeed tables so that they pivot up together. The Grizzly's pivot separately. Further the point about which the Grizzly'e pivot is held in place by a prong that fits into a detent in a grooved rod. That prong looks like it will wear over time. The finish on the Grizzly I saw left something to be desired.

I would go with the Jet. My 2 cents.

[Derek Hansen]

Don, have you looked at the Laguna combination jointer/planer?

I was just coming here to ask the same question...Laguna also has a 10" model for under $1500, it weighs about 1/2 as much as their 12" model though.


10" Jointer/Planer Combination
Motor: 1.5 HP
Jointer Table Size: 10 " x 42"
Planer Table Size: 10" x 24"
Cutterhead Diameter: 3 inches
Feed Roller Diameter: 1 1/2"
Cutting Knives: Three
Fence Tilt: to 45 degrees
Dust Chute Diameter: 4 inches
Maximum Joining Width: 10 inches
Maximum Planing Width: 10 inches
Maximum Cutting Depth: 1/8 inches
Maximum Planing Height: 7 inches
Cutterhead Speed: 4,800 rpm
Feed Speed: 28 ft/min
Packing Size: 45" x 22" x 36"
Net/Gross Weight: 326/375 lbs

[Rod Sheridan]

Machine Specifications

A175005


12" Jointer/Planer Combination

Motor

3 HP

Jointer Table Size

12" x 60 "

Planer Table Size

12" x 30 "

Cutterhead Diameter

3 3/4"

Feed Roller Diameter

1 1/2"

Cutting Knives
Four
Fence Tilt

0 to 45 degrees

Dust Chute Diameter

4 inches

Maximum Joining Width

12 inches

Maximum Planing Width

12 inches

Maximum Cutting Depth

3/16 inches

Maximum Planing Height

8 1/2"

Cutterhead Speed

4,800 rpm

Feed Speed

28 ft/min

Packing Size

66" x 25" x 36"

Net/Gross Weight

760/849 lbs

Price

$2495.00



Derek, I was actually thinking about the 12 inch version, however I did see the 10 inch one as well.....Rod.

[Paul B. Cresti]

I own a 16" j/p and also have a mortising attachment for it...a very good machine and it serves as three machines for me. I would not discount this third ability of horizontal mortising. It is a very nice feature...but only you can weigh the cost vs value thingy.

The jet looks like a very nice unit and the one flip table is a nice feature ( I have that on my j/p). The Grizzly on the other hand will take more doing to flip BUT there seems to be a set up on the front of it to accept a horizontal mortising attachment. It is not listed in there specs yet it appears to be the same set up as many of the 12" & 14" European j/p's I have seen.

One more company to throw into the mix is Rojek (Rojek USA sold by TechMark in Arkansas). They have some very value priced machines yet they are Europeam designs that have the ability to accept Tersa heads and horizontal mortisers...check them out too, they are very nice to deal with

[Mark Singer]

I own a 16" j/p and also have a mortising attachment for it...a very good machine and it serves as three machines for me. I would not discount this third ability of horizontal mortising. It is a very nice feature...but only you can weigh the cost vs value thingy.

The jet looks like a very nice unit and the one flip table is a nice feature ( I have that on my j/p). The Grizzly on the other hand will take more doing to flip BUT there seems to be a set up on the front of it to accept a horizontal mortising attachment. It is not listed in there specs yet it appears to be the same set up as many of the 12" & 14" European j/p's I have seen.

One more company to throw into the mix is Rojek (Rojek USA sold by TechMark in Arkansas). They have some very value priced machines yet they are Europeam designs that have the ability to accept Tersa heads and horizontal mortisers...check them out too, they are very nice to deal with

Sounds like a nice machine Paul:D

[Jeffrey Makiel]

The Rojek unit is interesting. I just visited the RojekUSA site. The jointer tables don't swing to the side. Is this less ergonomic when performing planer operations? How does dust collection work with planing or jointing?
-Jeff :)

[John Lanciani]

Hi Jeff,

I have a 16" Rojek, and as you mentioned, the tables flip forward. The biggest benefit of this is that the fence, which is center mounted, does not need to be removed to flip the tables up. As far as planing goes, it is not really an issue for me, I have enough space in front of the machine so that the tables are not in the way, it just takes an extra step to get around them.

The dust collection as supplied is barely adequate, but I made a simple modification to mine so that I can connect two 4" hoses and it doesn't miss a chip now.

John

[Eddie Darby]

Jet ------------------unit has 3 knives and a feed speed of 20 ft/min.
Grizzly ---------------unit has 3 knives and a feed speed of 20 ft/min.
The Laguna 12" ------unit has 4 knives and a feed speed of 28 ft/min.
The Laguna 10" ------unit has 3 knives and a feed speed of 28 ft/min
The Laguna XSD 12" -unit has 3 knives and a feed speed of 19 ft/min.


Jet -------------5,500 RPM which gives 16,500 cuts/min. 2 3/4" ---cutter head dia.
Grizzly ----------5,050 RPM which gives 15,150 cuts/min. 3" -------cutter head dia.
Laguna 12"------4,800 RPM which gives 19,200 cuts/min. 3 3/4" !!!!!! -cutter head dia.
Laguna 10"- ----4,800 RPM which gives 14,400 cuts/min. 3" -------cutter head dia.
Laguna XSD 12" 5.500 RPM which gives 16,500 cuts/min. No info


Jet -------------825 cuts/ft
Grizzly ----------758 cuts/ft
Laguna 12" ------686 cuts/ft
Laguna 10" ------514 cuts/ft
Laguna XSD 12" - 868 cuts/ft.

[Steve Patrick]

Hi,

I have the Jet 310 over here in UK and have used it a lot over the last 12 months. It is a superb machine and the quality of manufacture is as good as any I've seen. The fence has never caused me any problems, and as some have said I also slide the fence in and out to use the knives fully. I have never moved the fence to any other angle, but I guess if I had to it would take me all of about 2-3 mins to set and check it.
I would recommend the machine to anyone.

[Don Abele]

The Laguna 12" ------...feed speed of 28 ft/min
The Laguna 10" ------...feed speed of 28 ft/min


That's screaming through there :eek: I'd be curious to know what kind of effect that has on the finished surface. Especially the 10" with only 514 cuts/foot.

Be well,

Doc

[Don Abele]

Hi, I have the Jet 310...

Steve, do you mean the Rojek 310?

Be well,

Doc

[Steve Patrick]

Don,

In the USA it is the Jet JJP 12.
Sorry for that - don't know why they have to change the numbers around.

Steve

[Roger Bull]

I have the Jet j/p combo and really like it.

A few comments:

The jointer tables are shorter than the Grizzly but I have not had any problems using them even with long boards.

It is a little bit of a balancing act if you run long boards through the planer because the planer bed/table is not long and there are no infeed/outfeed tables or supports.

The jointer fence is aluminum but is very rigid and works very well.

You do not need to remove the fence to flip up the top. You do need to lower the planer table to about 7" in order to reverse the dust chute.

The tables are ground with a finish that is designed to reduce friction.

The tables are parallelogram I do not think the Grizzly is.

I do not like the jointer depth adjustment. They are just levers and fine adjustment is hit or miss. It would have been much nicer with wheels. That said, I really do not change it often now that I have it where I like it.

No complaints on the power.

Adjusting the tables took a while partly due to their width but there are quite a few adjustment points for fine tuning and getting them perfect.

I have run a lot of oak, maple and now bubinga through it and it has performed perfectly. Snipe is almost non-existent here.

The Jet is a little top-heavy toward the rear when the tables are flipped up. I have to change the wheel positions on my mobile base to stabilize it.

It is a solid well thought out machine and I would buy it again. You might try it without the spiral cutterhead first to see if you really want it. I did originally but have not needed it so far.

I hope that helps.
-Roger

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Thanks Roger. Between you, Curt and Steve, this machine is getting a comprehensive review.
-Jeff :)

[Curt Harms]

<snip>Curt Harms - any update on your Jet? Comments?

Be well,

Doc<snip>


I've had a little more time to play and I'll try to answer some questions. Storage space? I'll attach a couple pics. I'd plan at least 2' wide and 5' long.
8289782899
The space is 22 3/4" so 24" should be enough. The drive is a single V belt driving the cutterhead. The power for the planer feed comes off a flat pulley machined as part of the motor V belt pulley. The flat belt is tensioned by a spring loaded handle. I left the planer feed run unintentionally while using it as a jointer with no problem. The planer infeed roller is serrated steel, the outfeed roller is rubber. There are anti kickback fingers prior to the infeed roller.

The top is different than we're used to
82900
The "corduroy" is very shallow, about .0020" as near as I can measure. I don't see any impact either negative or positive vs. a polished top. That perception may change as I use it more. I did machine some poplar boards bought especially for the purpose (they were cheap:cool:). No detectable snipe on pieces about 5' long. They were about 8" wide and a fair amount of twist in one. That piece was an excellent demonstration on why it's a good idea to cut to rough size before machining--I wound up removing quite a bit of material before I got to flat & parallel. I also wound up with most of a DC bag of chips from 2 boards. I also had some cherry cutoffs about 18" long so decided to see how thin a board I could get. The unit is rated to plane to 1/8" (.125"). I was able to get them down to .0825" as long as I kept down pressure on the leading edge until it was past the cutterhead and still no snipe:). I don't know if something prone to shattering like perhaps oak would be as cooperative but the cherry could be shop sawn veneer (<.10") off the planer.

The fence. It does what It's supposed to do. The guides that keep it straight are just 4 hex cap screw heads.
82898
It can be skewed about 5-10 degrees as is. I suspect I could remove 2 diagonal cap screws and skew the fence even more which could be helpful with difficult grain. There's no compelling reason I can see for a jointer fence to be exactly parallel to the beds except aesthetics. Perpendicular to the tables is another matter and the fence seems to hold its setting once positioned. Euro style cutterhead guide? It's elevates with a knob at the base and is moved in and out or removed by loosening a knob at the end of the arm. It took about 10 seconds to figure out how to use it no problem and I don't see any way to get fingers near the cutterhead if the guard is set properly. Power seems adequate, chip collection works well. I doubt this machine would live long in a turn-it-on-in-the-morning-and-run-it-all-day environment like a production shop but seems very good in a hobby shop or 1-2 man wood shop. Having a helical cutterhead available would be good and WMH does have helical heads in some of their other machines so it wouldn't be too surprising to see that option become available. The straight knives seem to do a pretty good job it seems as long as they're sharp and not taking too deep a cut.

HTH

Curt

[Eddie Darby]

Jet ------------------unit has 3 knives and a feed speed of 20 ft/min.
Grizzly ---------------unit has 3 knives and a feed speed of 20 ft/min.
The Laguna 12" ------unit has 4 knives and a feed speed of 28 ft/min.
The Laguna 10" ------unit has 3 knives and a feed speed of 28 ft/min
The Laguna XSD 12" -unit has 3 knives and a feed speed of 19 ft/min.


Jet -------------5,500 RPM which gives 16,500 cuts/min. 2 3/4" ---cutter head dia.
Grizzly ----------5,050 RPM which gives 15,150 cuts/min. 3" -------cutter head dia.
Laguna 12"------4,800 RPM which gives 19,200 cuts/min. 3 3/4" !!!!!! -cutter head dia.
Laguna 10"- ----4,800 RPM which gives 14,400 cuts/min. 3" -------cutter head dia.
Laguna XSD 12" 5.500 RPM which gives 16,500 cuts/min. No info


Jet -------------825 cuts/ft
Grizzly ----------758 cuts/ft
Laguna 12" ------686 cuts/ft
Laguna 10" ------514 cuts/ft
Laguna XSD 12" - 868 cuts/ft.

Rojek 12"- 4 cutters - 3 3/4" dia head !!!!!! - 20 ft/min - 4200 RPM - 16,800 cuts/min. 840 cuts/ft

[Don Abele]

Thanks Steve, Roger, and Curt. Your comments, both here and in PM, have convinced me this is the unit for me. I'll be placing the order after I get back from travel in a week or so. Hopefully, by then I'll also have a reply back from Jet in regards to them selling this with a helical head from the start.

A couple of comments from your points (some I may have said already):

Fence Angle: I have never moved my fence off of 90* and only rarely moved it from side to side (and that was only to expose/use different areas of the blades).

Depth adjustment of the tables: Once set, I've never adjusted them. I have them set to take 1/32". I've never changed that. But getting it there with those levers does look tricky (but hey, I only have to do it once).


The Jet is a little top-heavy toward the rear when the tables are flipped up. I have to change the wheel positions on my mobile base to stabilize it.

Roger, can you further explain this as I will be putting it on an HTC-3000. What type of base do you have and what is your wheel layout?

Thanks again. Be well,

Doc

[Lance Norris]

One thing I didn't mention is name brand. The Jet would have an actual Byrd Shelix head. The Grizzly unit has their version of the shelix head. Not sure that it really makes a difference, I've heard great things about their Byrd knock-off.

Don... just a comment about the heads, that you probably already know. I have the Grizzly head on my 1021X and a Byrd Shelix on my jointer. IMHO the build, and cut quality is equal. I wouldnt have any reasons not to recommend the Grizzly head. Here is a review of the Jet jointer/planer from Newwoodworker.com:

http://www.newwoodworker.com/reviews/jetjjp12rvu.html

[Curt Harms]

Don... just a comment about the heads, that you probably already know. I have the Grizzly head on my 1021X and a Byrd Shelix on my jointer. IMHO the build, and cut quality is equal. I wouldnt have any reasons not to recommend the Grizzly head. Here is a review of the Jet jointer/planer from Newwoodworker.com:

http://www.newwoodworker.com/reviews/jetjjp12rvu.html

I wonder if the Grizzly head would fit the Jet J/P. They're both 12" but I don't know about the Grizzly head diameter or shaft/bearing size.

Curt

[Jeffrey Makiel]

I wonder if the Grizzly head would fit the Jet J/P. They're both 12" but I don't know about the Grizzly head diameter or shaft/bearing size.

Off hand, I'm thinking probably not. Different bearings, different mounting scheme. By the way, thanks for posting the follow-up pics.


Depth adjustment of the tables: Once set, I've never adjusted them. I have them set to take 1/32". I've never changed that. But getting it there with those levers does look tricky (but hey, I only have to do it once).

I rarely change mine also. In fact, I don't even remember the last time I changed them. Perhaps when I changed the knives.

My current 6" jointer uses levers. They work ok. Wheels are probably better but I wouldn't make it a deciding factor.

-Jeff :)

[Eddie Darby]

I wonder if the Grizzly head would fit the Jet J/P. They're both 12" but I don't know about the Grizzly head diameter or shaft/bearing size.Curt
They are a different diameter. 2 3/4" Jet vs. 3" Grizzly

[Roger Bull]

The Jet is a little top-heavy toward the rear when the tables are flipped up. I have to change the wheel positions on my mobile base to stabilize it.

Roger, can you further explain this as I will be putting it on an HTC-3000. What type of base do you have and what is your wheel layout?

Thanks again. Be well,

Doc

Hi Doc,

Sorry for the delay, I was out sick and missed this when I came back.

I am using a Jet #708119 heavy duty mobile base. It has two swivel wheels and two inline wheels. The JJP-12 is sitting on a piece of 3/4 BB ply fitted in the base. The base is also adjusted to a close fit around the base of the JJP-12.

One day with the unit in planer mode (top up) I leaned against the front and was shocked to feel it tipping toward the rear.:eek: Clearly, a good push and it would fall over backwards. The mobile base wheel arrangement at the time had the inline wheels in front and the two swivel wheels on the sides toward the rear (for space reasons). Big mistake, the swivel wheels MUST be on the rear for stability.

Hopefully my description makes sense.

-Roger

[Don Abele]

Roger, thanks for the follow-up. I understand. I have my current jointer on a mobile base with the fixed wheels to the right and swivels the left. This way I can move the jointer in-line with it's length. The wheels are placed so they are on the outside of the sides, vice at the "top" and "bottom" of the base which would narrow the stance.

Thanks again for the info, it'll definitely be something I'll watch for (eventually).

Be well,

Doc

[John Minnick]

How is the length of the infeed table? Would it be better if it had a longer table?