Used Powermatic 66 vs. New Advice

[Kevin Davis]

Hello All,

I am looking at a used Powermatic 66 (attached) with a Baldor 3HP, 1-ph, for around $1,400. It is about 5-7 years old. They claim it wasn't used too much and well taken care of. Unfortunately I have to take their word. It looks to be in pretty good shape from the pictures (a little rust on top that should be able to remove). I will have to drive about 7 hours to get it and the person that is selling it doesn't have 220V to fire it up. The other option is to buy a new PM 66 or PM 2000 for $2,500-2,800 with a Tiawanese motor. It is hard to find a used one. Any advice or suggestions welcome.

[Brad Noble]

Kevin,

I would have a hard time turning the deal down even though, as you say, you have to take their word for the condition. I have a '93 model 66 and I can assure you it would be very hard to abuse this saw without leaving marks.

Trust your instinct and believe only what you can see and touch.

Brad
(who dearly loves his 66)

[Peter Quinn]

Get in the truck...go get it. Not much can go wrong with these machines. Last job I worked with (3 ) PM66 used daily since the early 80's, never had any major service, still set up and performed well. Baldor motors are top notch, though if it were me I sure would want to hear it spin just once.

Price is very fair if the machine is in working order. You can still check the gears/bearings for wear/slop even w/o motor running. 14HR round trip adds to the cost with gas prices, but they just don't make um like they used to.

Notice you see very few PM66's for sale used? Ever wonder why?

[Eric Haycraft]

Pretty much every house in america has 220 run to it, so you should be able to test it out. If that means plugging it in at a dryer or stove hookup, so be it.
If there is no way of getting it running before buying it, only offer the amount that it would be worth without a motor which should be around 1000 bucks. Do not take someone's word that it runs...they may only be selling it because the motor died and don't want to tell you.

[bob hart]

Kevin,

Where is the PM located? Maybe someone on the forum can take a look at it for you.
Hint Hint all you readers!

Bob Hart

[Bob Feeser]

That is a tough one. There are a lot of components to this buy. The biggest concern is that you can not see it run. Finagglin a custom cord adapter that you could connect two 110 volt extension cords into, that would create a 220 line would do it. You would need 2 outlets that feed from different legs. It is normally impractical, but not impossible.
I would get the serial number off of it to determine the date it was made. A top that neglected is unfortunate, although it looks like an even rust surface. A random orbit sander at a slow speed, and a 120 grit, or whatever grit would clean it up real nice, as long as you leave it flat, and not lean into an edge. Steel wool in the miter tracks.
The bevel and height wheels may be a little stiff, or they may be fine, but that is something that can be worked in and lubed.
I think the real concern is if it runs. Cutting a piece of wood would make all the difference in the world.
Finding another one at that price range, and in better condition is not altogether too difficult to find. They don't appear every day, but there are quite a few made. They are out there. What's your time frame?
I got it, offer the guy 1000 for it sight unseen. That way you are covered even if it needs a motor. Or you could say, I will give you a grand for it sight unseen, or 1400 if you can plug it in and see it cut a board. Maybe that is stepping on the toes of whatever you were going to offer him for it. I am just trying to get it into your hands without any harm being done. I have an 04 PM66 and absolutely love it. When I walk through the room, I have to take a few seconds to stare at it just for the smile.

[CPeter James]

I think that the serial number indicates it is a 2001 model. Too bad about the top, but it can be cleaned up. It will not probably have the polish that a PM66 had from the factory, but you can get it pretty good.

As for the motor. smell it. If they let the smoke out you can smell it. Other than burning it up, not much else serious can go wrong. Try taking the belts off and truning the motor over by hand. There are just two bolts that hold the motor in place. Loosen them and put slack in the belts and you can check how the bearings in the motor and arbor feel.

$1400 is high, but a new one is over $2500 as you know. For $1100 how much risk are you willing to take? Remember you could get a brand new Grizzly 1023** with all the bells and whistles for less.......but it will never be a PM66. If it were me, I'd be driving in the morning.

Here is my PM66 that I bought used. The orange stuff, I added. It is '92 model. It came out of a cabint shop and had been used steady, but not abused.
http://home.metrocast.net/~cpjvkj/pm66.jpg

[Kevin Davis]

Bob,

Thanks for the tips. He said that he will get an extension cord for the 220 so he can test drive it before I make the trip and then I can make some cuts and kick the tires.

[Kevin Davis]

Peter,

That's quite the set-up. Maybe I'll just move into your shop instead. I don't have the space you have but I can feel your passion. I will take the tips to heart. Worst case scenario is a get a nice road trip out of it. Oh yeah, I still need to sell my wife on all of this. Any tips there?

[Scott Seigmund]

Remember you could get a brand new Grizzly 1023** with all the bells and whistles for less.......but it will never be a PM66.



Actually the G*****y with similar features will cost about the same, but (and this is a big but) it will have an inferior motor, inferior magnetic starter, and very soft Chinese castings, and after another 5-7 years the PM66 will still resale for more money.

That saw looks to be in very good condition from the photos. I think it will clean up beautifully and give you certain pride of ownership that you would never get from a lesser saw. I don’t see much risk in it at all. Consider it field tested. Remember, you can also get a defective saw right out of the crate.

-Scott

[John Thompson]

If you find the top very deeply pitted under that rust, I would curb my enthusiasm and ask if he would take $1200. Remember with a 7 hour drive one way (I assume one way), you have another $100 invested. I have seen several here in the Atlanta area go for around $1200-$1300 without the rust.

Keep in mind it doesn't hurt to seem very interested.. but be openly concerned with rust pits (even though they won't affect the actual function) to see if he is willing to come down. When I sell anything I always price higher than I expect to get. Someone over enthusiastic will often jump and pay to much when I would have sold something for less. By pricing high.. I can come down to reality and still get what I oriigianally felt was a reality price and the customer has the satisfaction of thinking he talked me down. ;)

Doesn't hurt to ask as the worst scenario is a simple No....

Sarge..

[Joe Chritz]

Don't forget that unless your time is free to you it is necessary to add some just for a full day round trip.

After driving 7 hours one way you aren't in a good negotiating position if you know what I mean. I expect the seller to know that too.

I would be leary if the word is "no 220" to test it. It shouldn't take much to be able to test it. If you can't check the runout, movements, etc and only offering an amount less a new motor is good advice.

Joe

[Brian Clevenger]

I posted this on another thread, but I think it serves here as well. As far as I understand, the PM66 is the only Powermatic tool being made in the States. However, the McMinnville foundry is closed as far as I know. Where are they making the new ones???

--------------------------------------------------
And I as well. I made the mistake of buying cheap China when I first started outfitting. I got lucky on some horse trading and now have some fine tools to be proud of. Here is my quick list. I'll try to revisit this post after I take some pictures.

My American Collection:

1938 Delta 10" band saw. This saw is almost mint, and my pride.

1947 Delta/Milwaukee 14" band saw. She is a daily user.

1967-1971ish 10" Rockwell/Delta turret RAS. Great saw. A keeper.

1970 Powermatic 1050 VS drill press. Was there ever a better 15" DP?

1981 Powermatic 60 8" jointer. Almost mint from the original owner. Complete with manuals, bill of sale, custom denim cover, custom mobile base. All from a retired industrial arts teacher who called her his "baby".

1996 Powermatic 66 table saw. I feel like I saved this saw from an undeserving owner. I paid $1000 for a saw that was barely used, except as a bar-top for beer cans. After it was loaded, I told the owner that he never deserved to have the saw in the first place.

I don't want to get too much of a trend started. I don't need competition on finding gems in my area. :D

[Ryan Wilson]

Not that I know much about this saw but as far as another negotiating angle you could offer $1000 and if everything is in working order when you get home mail them the other $400.

[Kevin Davis]

Thank you all for your feedback. The guys story with how he ended up with saw: a friend who does a lot of woodworking gave it to him and if he decided not to keep it they could split the proceeds. That doesn't sound like any woodworker I know or one that cares for his tools. When asked to provide me with his friend's contact info so I could speak to him, he said he didn't have it and would have to email that to me. The wind noise is me running to the door.

The search goes on for my PM 66, 3-HP, 1-PH beauty. Does PM experts know when PM stopped using Baldor?

[Karl Brogger]

It just takes some time and chrome polish to get the "shine" back. As for what can go wrong with the saw? Not much, the pinion gears some times need adjusting to keep the tilt and lift of the trunnion moving smoothly and easily. Typically the magnetic starters are the first thing to really go out, but I've only seen it happen to one saw personally. That was at a shop that had probably 8 Powermatic M66's in it. It was a old saw.

I personally would never purchase a 3hp table saw, except if it were to be used for dadoing alone. I have a 5hp saw Model 66 and occasionally wish it had a bit more oomf.


The search goes on for my PM 66, 3-HP, 1-PH beauty. Does PM experts know when PM stopped using Baldor?

My saw was purchased new in 2004, it has a Baldor motor. Had it out once for service. I thought a bearing was going out.

Look for used equipment when you can. There are cabinet shops going tits up all over the place. Craigslist is a good source, as is K-Bid. Two weeks ago there was 3 shops on K-Bid going out of business in my area.

[Doug Shepard]

I'm with Eric - offer him $1000. Unless he can prove otherwise, assume the motor is dead and plan on replacing it. If you get it home and find out it works, you got an even better buy.

[Steven Wilson]

Offer less if he can't show that it runs then tentatively agree to the sale. Once there make sure that the trunion moves freely (if gunked up then clean the trunion and try). Also check the top for flatness. Don't bother too much with the wings as they can be shimmed and adjusted properly. Also check the flatness and squarness of the fence. That plastic material can be a PIA to get flat. You may notice bumps in the fence where the fence face is bolted on to the body. You may need to disassemble and flatten the mounting face. Also check for arbor runnout and belt adjustment. If things are fairly well adjusted then the saw is probably in good shape. If things are clunky, out of whack, etc. then you may end up with someone elses problem child.