Face frame with a bead

[Bill Kingman]

I am building a face frame with boards routed with a quarter inch bead. I will assemble using pocket screws. However, where each piece butts against another I must cut the bead at a 45 degree angle and strip out the bead on one side before attaching.

Any tricks or suggestions for doing this accurately and efficiently? Would you cut out everything by hand using a back saw and chisel?

Thanks!

[David DeCristoforo]

What you need is called a "mason's miter". Search this forum or the 'net and you will find a plethora of methods for making this joint.

YM

[Matthew Voss]

AKA "Jack Miter"...

I've always seen this done by hand with a Japanese pull saw. Somebody had suggested to me once using a miter trimmer to start the cut followed by a sharp chisel.

[Brook Duerr]

I've done those on my Leigh M&T jig by setting the router bit just the height to remove the bead. Then I use the router to clip off all of the bead up to the base of the 45 degree angle. I take the guide out that the router follows and simply nibble the wood with the router back and forth across the bead. Then I used my table saw to cut the 45 degree angle. The table saw step is tricky because you need to nibble at the angle so as to not take too much off or else you are starting over again.

[David Duke]

Bill, what I did on this http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=77835 is build the face frame using square corner material then made a beaded trim and glued it inside the door/drawer openings. On the doors the rail/stiles are assemble using a mitered half-lap, this allowed me to route the bead on the inside after cutting the joinery.

[Ben Grunow]

Route out the majority on the RT and finish with chisel or pull saw. I have also used a jig to dut the 45 with a pull saw and either works.

Currently I am beading my face frames after assembly- much quicker and no sacrifice in quality, just more glue to clean up.

[Peter Quinn]

Couple of months ago FWW had an article on jack miter face/door frames using table saw/chisel to clean up. Check their archives or back issues, same method I use but they have better pictures/drawings. Real quick. Applied bead works well too.

[Bill Kingman]

Thanks everyone for your great suggestions!

[Bob Lang]

Here is the method I use, using a router and templates (along with a bit of sawing and chiseling.

http://blogs.popularwoodworking.com/editorsblog/Shop+ProjectsPart+3Beaded+Frame+Joints.aspx

Bob Lang

[Karl Brogger]

Add the bead after the frame is together and the box is assembled. Way easier. Turns out better with less waste. The only pain is if you use the hinges that attach to the back of the face frame. They will probably have to be attached to partitions or ends.

[Jim Kaczmark]

I'm currently making a kitchen using the same type of beaded face frame. I have an incra TS-LS and Wonder Fence routing system that I"m using. I altered a 45 degree chamfer bit by cutting the bearing off with a Dremel tool. Was careful not to touch the flat part of the cutting blades just under the bearing. After I cut the bearing off, I noted the width of the cut from corner to corner of the chamfer bit... (the "flat part" of the bit between the two 45 degree sides.) Using another bit with a same 1/2 inch bearing, I used the adjustment accuracy of the incra system to exactly center the bit under the router fence. (Get the bearing to barely roll with a straight edge on the face of the router fence, then move the fence back 1/4".) Height of the router bit is set to 5/16" above the router table top. This matches the depth of the beaded router cut (1/4" bead plus 1/16" groove). This depth is set using a set of Whiteside brass setup blocks, or by making it even with the top of the router table, and counting each turn of the crank arm that raises and lowers the router table. Knowing the width of the router bit's "bottom" cut and exactly centering the bit is all you need to know to do some simply math to calculate where I should have the INCRA positioned to cut the mitres on the face frames. Most cuts are the same as were on the cabinet next to it. So you really only have to calculate just a few of these "start" and "stop" points that you'll need to have the fence positioned at in order to do an entire kitchen.

[Jim Kaczmark]

As Karl mentioned, the bead can be added after the frame is assembled. Both result in good results. In my situation, I was having very lightly stained & finished hard wood face frames & didn't like the way the joinery would look if the bead was after the fact. If I were going to do some much darker stained or painted cabinets, then I would have added the bead after the face frames were assembled. It is a much easier technique.

[Thom Sturgill]

If you are a fan of Norm's he has done this several ways including (IFRC) using a dado blade to cut away the center part of the bead and then either a chisel to clean the miter or the saw blade angled to cut the miter. This also affects cuting the shoulder on the tenons to fit the miter.

On the latest series about a kitchen he uses a separate bead that is added to square stock as the easiest method. The applied bead includes a shoulder to give the shadow line between the bead and the frame.

[Russell Tribby]

The shop I work at in the summers has a machine that is specifically designed to produce this joint. I haven't taken the time to look for it on line. It has 6-7' bed with a foot pedal that you push down to activate two razor sharp blades. One blade is set at 45 degrees and it cuts the miter. The other blade is straight and cuts off the beading. It's a beautiful piece of equipment but I'm sure it costs a lot. It's a beast of a machine too. Probably impractical for non-production use.

[Russell Tribby]

This is it.
http://www.redmond-machinery.com/images/Morso%20NLF-1.gif

[Alex Berkovsky]

Here's a video (http://video.aol.com/video-detail/woodworking-joint-the-jack-miter/1078661657) I found online while googling for "jack miter".

[David DeCristoforo]

Well, that notcher is absolutely "the thing". But here is how I "do" these joints. I make a jig like the one in the attached (very crudely drawn...sorry) sketch. .
82812
Cut away most of the waste with whatever you prefer (I use a bandsaw)
Then I clamp the stock into the jig and use a flush trim bit to finish. The bearing surfaces also serve as a guide for the paring chisel needed to clean up the small round at the vertex of the angle. If there is a rail intersection at mid point in the stile, I make a similar jig only with a "V" type notch. This is nowhere as impressive as the notching machine but it's a lot cheaper! The miters on the ends of the rails are easily cut with a miter saw or a hand saw and guide.

YM

[Bill Kingman]

Here's what I did. I ground the bearing off a chamfer bit like Jim described above and then used it in a jig I built similar to this one:
http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base_images/zp/beaded_face_frame_fabrication_2.jpg

It is described in more detail here:
http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Beaded_Face_Frame_Fabrication.html

It took me a couple of hours to put together and test, but let me tell you it is dead on accurate.

[Greg Hines, MD]

The way that Norm did it most recently was with the table saw, cutting the miter with the blade tipped to 45 degrees and set the height of the bead, and then ripping the bead as far as you can before finishing up with a chisel.

Doc

[Craig Thompson]

Bill, Depending on how many face frames you have..... I have done a couple kitchens with the following method. I spin my mortisers head to 45 degrees, and use a placement jig for consistant location to get the mitered portion then shave off the bead with the bandsaw, cleanup with a chisel....

[David DeCristoforo]

You know what I love about this stuff? It's that for every question there are so many great answers. I am beginning to think that my only regret about life being so short is that there is no way we are ever going to have time to be able to learn everything there is to know about anything!

YM

[Brad Shipton]

I think Russell hit the nail on the head. We all need a $5,000 Koffman machine. Well need might not be the correct word.