Blotchy Cherry

[Ed Gibbons]

After sanding and blowing off dust, I wiped down the piece with mineral spirits. Next, I put down BLO. Now the table top has blotches. Where did I go wrong? What could I do to rectify the situation? I have yet put on any additional finish. I plan on putting on a coat of garnet shellac and topping with varnish.

Ed

[Steve Schoene]

You have brought out the figure in the cherry, which is the primary use of BLO as a first step. It may be irregular enough that you call it "blotching". It's pretty much inevitable with any finish that "wets" the wood but finishes with the most color in them accentuate the variations the most.

[Jim Becker]

As Steve indicated, it's just the figure of the wood accentuated by the oil. You did nothing wrong. It will become less apparent over time as oxidation and UV Darken the wood.

[John Leipold]

As Steve indicated, it's just the figure of the wood accentuated by the oil. You did nothing wrong. It will become less apparent over time as oxidation and UV Darken the wood.


Jim, quick question here.... would a water based finish have worked better here? I'm laboring under some repressed / forgotton memory that tells me to use water based finishes on cherry to avoid blotching? Is this correct or have I hit my head once to often?

[Sam Yerardi]

When you are dealing with cherry and you want to help avoid 'blotching', depending on which direction you go in at first will improve the problem or make it worse. Typically you want to seal the wood such that anything you do after that is 'accepted' by the surface/grain more or less equally. Cherry, pine (especially pine), luaun, and a few other woods are notorious for this. They love to soak up finishes. Sealing with a thin coat of shellac can be a good starting point. The idea is that you want something to get on the surface, dry as quickly as possible before it has much opportunity to soak in. Then proceed with the rest of the finishing schedule, whatever you're wanting to do. If you are coloring cherry (which you might be doing to even out colors or reproduce an antique finish, etc.), dyes tend to work better in dealing with the problem than pigment-type stains. Gel stains work the best, because they won't soak in like liquid stains.

[Jim Becker]

Jim, quick question here.... would a water based finish have worked better here? I'm laboring under some repressed / forgotton memory that tells me to use water based finishes on cherry to avoid blotching? Is this correct or have I hit my head once to often?

The crux of the matter is what do you want the cherry to look like. What one person calls "blotch" I call awesome figure. If you don't prefer the figure to stand out as it will when oil gets to it, then no oil should touch the wood. Use shellac to tone (de-waxed) and then use a top coat of your choice, water borne or oil based. If you go right to the cherry with most water borne finishes, you'll have a somewhat lifeless end result. Target Hybrivar may be one exception, but I personally have not tried it directly on the cherry. I did see the sample that Jeff Weiss of Target created with Hybivar directly on cherry veneer ply and was quite impressed, however. But that formula is an alkyd varnish in a water suspension and I don't know if there is any action in the wood because of it.

[Steven Wilson]

Is that solid cherry or cherry plywood? I find that the plywood blotches with BLO and is fairly ugly. However, you can try and tone it down with some mineral spirits. The formula that I like to use for poping cherry prior to applying shellac is to use BLO, Tung Oil, and Turpentine in the ratio 1:1:2 for non-figured solid cherry up to 1:1:9 for cherry plywood or cherry with a squirly figure. The extra solvent (turpentine) helps cut down on the blotchies

[Lee Koepke]

The crux of the matter is what do you want the cherry to look like. What one person calls "blotch" I call awesome figure. If you don't prefer the figure to stand out as it will when oil gets to it, then no oil should touch the wood. Use shellac to tone (de-waxed) and then use a top coat of your choice, water borne or oil based. If you go right to the cherry with most water borne finishes, you'll have a somewhat lifeless end result. Target Hybrivar may be one exception, but I personally have not tried it directly on the cherry. I did see the sample that Jeff Weiss of Target created with Hybivar directly on cherry veneer ply and was quite impressed, however. But that formula is an alkyd varnish in a water suspension and I don't know if there is any action in the wood because of it.
I would like to bring this back for a revisit ... I have an issue with some cherry I am using for a side table.... the top is from a different piece than the remainder of the piece, and it has some nice figuring to it ... but ... when I wipe some mineral spirits on it, there are some other blotching that occurs that kinda takes away from the other features. My intention is to use BLO first, then some shellac ( my first shellacing if you will !! ) .... Will that blotching stil be pronounced after the BLO ??? Just curious.

[Steve Schoene]

But, be aware that if you use BLO first, thinned or not, you will get more not less "blotching" than with the mineral spirits alone. The BLO has no function except to bring out the figure, which you are calling blotching, so I'd eliminate it, go to a very light shellac for a coat or two and then either more shellac or top coat of choice. You should even do a test with a waterborne finish. Personally, I like the darker cherry that the BLO brings out, blotches and all, but that's purely a matter of personal preferences.

[Lee Koepke]

But, be aware that if you use BLO first, thinned or not, you will get more not less "blotching" than with the mineral spirits alone. The BLO has no function except to bring out the figure, which you are calling blotching, so I'd eliminate it, go to a very light shellac for a coat or two and then either more shellac or top coat of choice. You should even do a test with a waterborne finish. Personally, I like the darker cherry that the BLO brings out, blotches and all, but that's purely a matter of personal preferences.
Thanks.

I am not scared .... I will try the BLO and see how it shakes out. I would usually try it on a test piece, but unfortunately I dont have more than an inch or so left over .. luck or careful planning ???? The rest of the cherry is a bit darker, nice grain but not alot of the unique figure. Sometimes, you know the answer but still ask. You never know when a question begets a different perspective.

[glenn bradley]

After sanding and blowing off dust, I wiped down the piece with mineral spirits. Next, I put down BLO. Now the table top has blotches. Where did I go wrong? What could I do to rectify the situation? I have yet put on any additional finish. I plan on putting on a coat of garnet shellac and topping with varnish.

Ed

I seal cherry with a 1lb cut of dewaxed shellac prior to almost anything else . . . usually. The cherry we get around here has "blotchy" patterns more often than not in my experience so far.

As your finish is to be garnet shellac and a top coat I'll assume you were hoping the BLO would pop the grain. It did, the figure was just not what you were after. The BLO accentuates what is there.

I have cut pieces out of boards specifically for their figure. This allowed me to go straight to oils and they look beautiful but the waste factor is too great so I usually seal if I want a more natural look.

[Doug McGuire]

But, be aware that if you use BLO first, thinned or not, you will get more not less "blotching" than with the mineral spirits alone. The BLO has no function except to bring out the figure, which you are calling blotching, so I'd eliminate it, go to a very light shellac for a coat or two and then either more shellac or top coat of choice. You should even do a test with a waterborne finish. Personally, I like the darker cherry that the BLO brings out, blotches and all, but that's purely a matter of personal preferences.
I'm going to use Brazilian cherry for a 16 sq ft desk top.
What is BLO?
Thanks!
Doug Mcguire

[Steve Schoene]

BLO is Boiled Linseed Oil.

Brazilian Cherry isn't at all related to our domestic cherry wood, except that some marketing folks thought that they could sell Jatoba, some of which does have colors similar to cherry, if they made it sound familiar, so I don't know how Jatoba responses to BLO.

[Mike Sandman]

This thread discusses a common problem, apparently.

I have solid cherry and just stained it with Bartley's gel stain (brown mahogany tone). I used the gel stain because it's supposed to have less tendency to be absorbed unevenly on cherry, and I've used it before with success. BUT: Some of the wood is very blotchy and dark.

If I precoat with a thin solution of dewaxed shellac, will I still be able to use the same gel stain, or will the shellac block its absorption?

[Steve Schoene]

As long as you keep the shellac to wash coat levels--1 lb. cut of shellac --or less you can use the stain. BUT, because of the reduced penetration it will be considerably lighter over all. You can't compensate by not wiping off the stain as thoroughly, that just creates a weak layer that could interfer with proper bonding and cure of top coats.

To get dark, though personally I don't like the concept of dark coloration for cherry, you would need to use a dye as the first step. Dye blotches less, not zero but less, especially if you apply it quite liberally so that all areas are well saturated.

[Mike Sandman]

Thanks -- I'll try a 1/2 lb cut of shellac. The Bartley's "brown mahogany" gel stain on cherry results in a color that's only slightly darker than a more typical cherry tone, but I appreciate the suggestion about a dye.

Mike

[Steve Flavin001]

comments, I use what is probably a similar version to many of the solutions mentioned is a SW Classic stain "Natural" finish - what it is is the base for the different stains without the tinting. Then apply the desired stain or stay with the clear only. Other paint manufacturers have same products under their respetive names.

The only big issue I have here is those in this thread that try to quickly seal the surface and lock out stains. I prefer as some have said, to stain without blotches (or reasonably without) and then seal finish as desired.

[Steve Flavin001]

please see my note way below re preparing surface - I find the mineral spirits gets into the arena but is not adequate.

[Cary Swoveland]

I would think that quartersawn or riftsawn cherry would tend to bloch less, in general, than plainsawn. Is that true?

Another thing that helps achieve a more uniform color in cherry is to sand any exposed end grain to a higher grit (e.g., 320) than that used on faces and edges (e.g, 180 grit).

Cary

[Jim Becker]

I would think that quartersawn or riftsawn cherry would tend to bloch less, in general, than plainsawn. Is that true?

True, whether oiling or (gasp...) applying any color to quartered or rift cherry, there will be less of the perceived issue some call "blotching". I use a lot of this material now, both solid and in veneer, for face frames to better balance with the figured stock I use for door panels and drawer fronts. But I only oil it and don't believe in "blotch"...it's just the figure shining through!