Natural Edge bowl. What went wrong? Picture

[Alex Elias]

Well this is the first time I try one of this. It was soaking wet. The size of the block was about 6x6x5. I turned it to this about 4x5 by shy of 1/2 in thickness then I wrapped it in paper and left it on the garage. After 48 Hrs it lost 2 Oz cracked, and the bark separated from the wood.
At first I thought it was the wood orientation but being that is a natural edge there is no other orientation that I can think of.
The question is. Was this meant to happen or could I have prevented it?
Thanks for the responses.
Alex
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q185/alxe24/Natural-Edge.jpg

[sascha gast]

you win one, you loose one. sometimes just the way it goes. next time rough turn and wax it or soak it in denatured alcohol.
then put it in paper bag

[Don Eddard]

What kind of wood is it?Like Sascha said, some just go that way, although denatured alcohol and wrapping with paper to slow the drying a bit might have helped prevent or reduce the cracking.

[Dave Stoler]

Unfortunatly green wood = unpredictable...The drying process definitely needed to be slowed.

[Curt Fuller]

There are many who will debate the benefits of soaking in DNA (denatured alcohol). But natural edge bowls are something that almost require it IMHO. It's hard to keep the bark attached to any wood as it dries out so NE bowls turn best and easiest when the wood is still green. And green wood is the most likely to crack and split. But try roughing the NE bowls, soaking them in DNA for 2-3 days, put them in a couple brown paper bags for 3-4 weeks and then finish turn them. That's how I've had my best results.

[Raymond Overman]

Think thin. For natural edge bowls I turn to final thickness all the way through and let them warp. It adds to the character of that type piece anyway. Try to get a consistent thinness of about 3/16" - 1/4" (or less) and you'll get less of this type cracking. Especially with freshly cut wood.

Even with these ideas, sometimes you get the bear, sometimes the bear gets you. Good luck.

[William Bachtel]

Try and keep the finish size thinner than 3/8s, after you are done, do not put it in the heat above 55 degree, no wind, no sun, and no heated or a/c allowed. The bark will always fall off if you get the wood when the tree has lots of water or (sap) in it. Always cut your wood when the sap run is down in the ground. (winter) Certain woods carry more water than others, like maple, Cherry, other woods carry less water like Locust, Ash, Oscage Orange. If you pay the postage I will send you a blank that will behave better, Ash. I turn N/E bowls all the time and they are fun, but much more work. Sorry you had trouble.

[Gordon Seto]

Before you ship any ash with bark, please double check whether your county is in the Emerald Ash Borer quarantine area. Any ash products with bark is not allowed to transport out of the infested area.
The shipping is cheap; the USDA fine is very stiff.

[Bernie Weishapl]

I have did NE's both ways. I have turned them down thin 1/4" or less and soaked them in antique oil as soon as it came off the lathe with little to no warping. Most times though I will rough turn them to 1/2" to 3/4" thick, soak in DNA for a couple of days and then wrap in brown grocery sack. I let them dry as Curt said for 3 to 4 weeks and then finish turning. I have only lost one NE doing it this way.

[Jerry Allen]

Alex,
It looks like you can try filling those cracks with coffee grounds and epoxy. Or maybe epoxy and some other filler that you might have. I can't absolutley tell from the picture, but it might be fine for this one.

[William Bachtel]

Ok no Ash. But I can ship Cherry to the guy. or Walnut.




Before you ship any ash with bark, please double check whether your county is in the Emerald Ash Borer quarantine area. Any ash products with bark is not allowed to transport out of the infested area.
The shipping is cheap; the USDA fine is very stiff.

[Reed Gray]

As others have said, it is turned a bit thick. You can leave a piece thick (10% which means a 10 inch wide bowl should be about 1 inch thick), dry it and return it, or turn it to final thickness (1/4 inch or so thick), let it dry and warp, then sand and finish it. A warped bowl is hard to sand on the lathe without power sanding unless you have a variable speed lathe and can turn the rpm down to 60 rpm or less. You just can't keep your hands on the wood through the warps. When drying, it is important to remember too slow it molds, and too fast and it cracks. Also, some woods are more prone to cracking than others. I think the area you are in is pretty dry, so you have to take extra precautions. A couple of paper bags, in the garage (which is generally cooler than the house, or the shop), and down on the floor, out of wind and sun. You can add the shavings from the bowl to add more humidity, and slow the process down. You can use plastic bags, which will need to be opened every day or 2 to breathe, so the wood doesn't mold. A half inch thick bowl can be dry in 10 days to 2 weeks, and it doesn't matter if you soak it in DNA, or LDD (liquid dishwashing detergent), or air dry it. The soaks may make a difference if the wood is thicker, but I haven't tried that yet. A 1 inch bowl takes 3 to 6 months to air dry. Keep trying, you will figure it out, or find the nearest club and ask around. Local weather can make a lot of difference in how you have to dry your wood.
robo hippy

[Alex Elias]

That is very nice of you. I'll take you up on the offer.


Try and keep the finish size thinner than 3/8s, after you are done, do not put it in the heat above 55 degree, no wind, no sun, and no heated or a/c allowed. The bark will always fall off if you get the wood when the tree has lots of water or (sap) in it. Always cut your wood when the sap run is down in the ground. (winter) Certain woods carry more water than others, like maple, Cherry, other woods carry less water like Locust, Ash, Oscage Orange. If you pay the postage I will send you a blank that will behave better, Ash. I turn N/E bowls all the time and they are fun, but much more work. Sorry you had trouble.

Thanks to all of you for the responses. I'll keep on trying. The picture piece is going to be finish and see what it looks like when done.
Thanks again

[Dick Strauss]

Alex,
As others have said, you may want to go thinner.

IIRC Palmdale, CA is high desert (~3000'). The dry air will make anything green dry too quickly. You need to slow the drying rate down with 3 thick paper grocery sacks (or a grocery sack and a coat of anchorseal). Do not use paper lunch sacks unless you have lots of them and are willing to go 6 layers thick because they are so thin.

Drying green wood is a little different everywhere (as you are learning). If it cracks, it usually means it's drying too quickly. If it gets moldy, it means it is drying too slowly. You want to have your pieces somewhere in between.

I hope this helps!

[Glenn Hodges]

OK Alex, I do some of the things mentioned in some of the posts, and some I don't. One thing I did not read is after turning realitively thin, make sure this is uniform thoughout the piece. The best thing you can do with your piece is learn from it. Take it to a band saw and cut it vertically. I think you will see the bottom is much thicker than the sides, and this will cause cracks. Lots of other problems in wood cause cracks like the kind of wood, tension, rate of drying, etc, and they have been mentioned in the above posts. One thing which I do is to turn a NE bowl from green wood, sand it, put on a finish, let it warp all it wants. Very few of mine develop a crack because they dry very slow with the finish on them, and the warp amazes the customers. I will not sell one until it has been drying for at least 8 weeks. Cracks will show by then....

[Brad Hammond]

i may be wrong here, but it looks like cherry. my experience with cherry and air drying have not been the most promising. when i've had cherry sawn i've cut it in 9ft lengths to account for the 6in on either end of the board that will definetly check and crack. kiln dried stuff doesnt seem to have this prob, but air dried cherry seems to go crazy and warp.
everything mentioned prior to this has been spot on. dna has been a bowl... life saver for me!

[Alex Elias]

The guy who sold the piece to me told me the name and I'd like to say it was black acacia> definetely not Cherry. I'll keep on trying though

[Brian Poor]

Usually, if you leave a natural edge with bark on it, turning in two stages is not going to work well. The bark and the layer just under it will act as a wick and cause drying to be very uneven.
That in combination with the mass that was left in the wall of the bowl allowed the piece to rip itself apart.

[John Abt]

Alex,

Any number of things could have gon wrong. I recently lost two roughed-out cherry bowls that even cracked ascross the tenon. Some of the more experienced members of my club said that I hadn't made the walls of the bowl a consistant thickness which added to the tension as they dried. I had also used anchor seal and had them in paper bags.:mad:

[JerHall]

Last week I grabbed a Madrone bowl with two wide cracks like yours out of my burn pile. Put some blue masking tape on the inside. Grabbed some finely re-ground coffee (used and dried) and filled the crack with the grounds using thin CA. Then I took my biscuit joiner, clamped the bowl to my bench, set the joiner on #20, rested it on my bench at an artistic angle and cut three slots across the cracks. Then I grabbed some black walnut scraps and made some biscuits using the regular ones as a template for one side. It fit like a dream, sanded it all down inside and out thru all the grits. Let it be a soft undulation across the offset of the crack. It's now one of my favorite bowls. The coffee mimics the look of the bark quite well. It was pretty fast process. I made a bunch of extra biscuits. If anyone want's I will post a picture.

Now I am hoping for other bowls to crack, but none have so far. Darn it. Does anyone know how to get them to crack?

[Bill Lantry]

Jerry,

I'd love to see a picture of that...

Thanks,

Bill

[JerHall]

from the process described in my earlier message today. Both outside and inside views. Natural edge Madrone, about 10" dia and 7" high

Jerry

[Steve Mawson]

Very interesting, have never seen anything like that.