Ready to buy lottsa equipment!

[Ryan Cianfarani]

I'm in the market for just about every major woodworking tool other than a radial arm saw and miter box. My 2 main choices are Grizzly and General. After many stops to Grizzly's website and hearing from others about Grizzly, I am likely going to pickup a table saw, band saw, drill press, jointer, and planer from them. Great features at an unbeatable price. I'll be making my buy within the next 6 weeks. I don't know how soon you will be buying yours, but I can give you an idea of how nice the Grizzly is after. I have checked out general in person also and their quality seems to be top-notch.

Thanks for all the posts! It's a great help reading what you guys have said.

[Chris Padilla]

Wow this post was perfect for me. I'm in the market for just about every major woodworking tool other than a radial arm saw and miter box. My 2 main choices are Grizzly and General. After many stops to Grizzly's website and hearing from others about Grizzly, I am likely going to pickup a table saw, band saw, drill press, jointer, and planer from them. Great features at an unbeatable price. I'll be making my buy within the next 6 weeks. I don't know how soon you will be buying yours, but I can give you an idea of how nice the Grizzly is after. I have checked out general in person also and their quality seems to be top-notch.

Thanks for all the posts! It's a great help reading what you guys have said.


Hi Ryan,

That is a heckuva first post as I'm sure Shiraz (Griz owner) will be happy to hear you are dropping some major coin in one shot with his company! Oh, and WELCOME to Saw Mill Creek! I have a 1023Z TS and it has perfomred flawlessly for me over the past 7-8 years so it is a goodie. I kinda wish it would head south so I could pick up a PM2000 or a SawStop but oh well.

[Ryan Cianfarani]

Hi Ryan,

That is a heckuva first post as I'm sure Shiraz (Griz owner) will be happy to hear you are dropping some major coin in one shot with his company! Oh, and WELCOME to Saw Mill Creek! I have a 1023Z TS and it has perfomred flawlessly for me over the past 7-8 years so it is a goodie. I kinda wish it would head south so I could pick up a PM2000 or a SawStop but oh well.

lol thanks. I've been impressed with Grizzly, but not dead-set on it by any means. I don't need to purchase anything for 6 weeks yet so I can take my time and investigate to the nth degree. The PM2000 looks beautiful. Do you think it's worth dropping another ~ $1000 on a PM saw? The Grizzly model comes with the ability to mount a router, but the PM looks 100% better with the split fence, etc. Or even the model with the workbench is interesting. I only plan on making one TS purchase so I'm willing to spend a little more for better quality. What's your take? PM or Grizzly. Thanks a lot!

[Chris Padilla]

Ryan,

I split these posts off the other thread and adjusted things for you. :)

[Travis Gauger]

Powermatic is the creme de la creme for tablesaws. I couldn't justify the cost for my saw purchase, but maybe you can. The sawstop is another to consider of cost isn't going to be an issue. I've played with one at a cabinet shop I frequent and it is a nice saw. I mean nice. I mean sell my kidneys for one nice.

[Chris Padilla]

Powermatic is the creme de la creme for tablesaws. I couldn't justify the cost for my saw purchase, but maybe you can. The sawstop is another to consider of cost isn't going to be an issue. I've played with one at a cabinet shop I frequent and it is a nice saw. I mean nice. I mean sell my kidneys for one nice.


Kidneys go for about 4 grand these days?? :confused:

[Jason Beam]

Kidneys go for about 4 grand these days?? :confused:

Not including Installation.

[David DeCristoforo]

"Thanks for all the posts! It's a great help reading what you guys have said."

While I did not contribute anything to this, I have to say that it's always a pleasure to help someone spend their money on tools....

YM

[Brent Ring]

I cast a vote for a Sawstop - Only seen them in demo, but after nicking my finger with a dado blade last week, I have decided that, even as a hobbyist, I am not upgrading my TS until I can upgrade to a Sawstop. I did get a chance to compare a Sawstop, and a PM 2000, and a Unisaw side-by-side, and I think the Sawstop is everything those are, plus the safety feature. Looked over the trunnions, table, fence system, action of the cranks, and if I were buying a TS, that would be my choice.

[Lance Norris]

The PM2000 looks beautiful. Do you think it's worth dropping another ~ $1000 on a PM saw?

IMHO-No. The PM might be the better saw, but the 1023 will do all you ask of it. If you absolutely have to have Powermatic, then go buy it, but I would put that $1000 you save, going with the 1023, towards dust collection. Your gonna need that also.

[Brad Hammond]

here's what i've got. griz 8" jointer, 17" bandsaw, floor model drill press, and 1023 ts. as for planer, dewalt lunch box.
all the griz stuff has held up very nice and <knock on wood> the only probs i've had were a broken stop switch on the table saw ( 99cents) and replacing the tires on the band saw. the dewalt lunch box has held up really well. just building our house it went through 1900 bf of qs red oak and about 2400 ft of rough sawn mahogany.
bottom line, i'd buy griz again if i had to start over.

[Chris Barnett]

Might want to carefully consider that router feature and alternatives. Have the 1023SLW here, but have yet to mount a router, although I installed the table and the router clamps [clamps for storage purposes only]. The easy method to raise/lower the router from above does not seem to be attainable with this setup though, at least I have not seen the way.

[Peter Quinn]

Lets get realistic about this...most cabinet saws perform well beyond what any serious hobbist/small pro shop asks of them on a daily basis. Sure they all have small features that are different, like that massive 150# trunion on the PM, or that finger saver on the saw stop. But at the end of the day when the saw dust is settling and your having a beer relaxing, just looking at the tools and contemplating your next move, isn't it all about the color?

Seriously, I just can't relax in a room full of tools painted Garish Green! Maybe one or two, but not all of them. PM is such a lovely shade of gold, delta has the soft blues down to a science, Saw Stop looks high tech industrial city chic black, Jet is business casual in tan tones with red pin stripes, and with the exception of Rojek most of the european machines have old world pinache to spare. My all time favorite is the metalic green/grey of the old Dewalt RAS....I would keep it even if it broke completely just for asthetics.

I would seriously consider spending your money on an assortment of machines that look good, both individually and as a group. How can you be expected to skillfully and creatively ply your art when you are constantly squinting and grimacing at the color of your tools? I have found very few machines that can't be made to work, but getting them to look good is another story. I actually put a paper bag over my green power feeder sometimes because its color clashes with my shaper.

You can compare performance statistics and prices till your blue in the face and not find an answer, so I say in a craft where asthetics is important don't forget to consider the look of the tools when you make your decisions.:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:eek:

[J. Z. Guest]

Ryan, I wouldn't buy them all at once if I were you. It is a nice thought, but it will drive you nuts.

You'll want to have them all open at once, and that means packing material & boxes everywhere. Your shop must be huge to even contemplate this. That, or you underestimate the size of the packing materials.

Next, you'll have a pile of disassembled machines and you'll end up putting them together too quickly and will be tempted to cut corners on alignmnet. Let's not even think about mixing up parts.

Unless Grizzly will give you a discount for one massive purchase like this, (which you should ask them for, by the way) you should get one machine every week or two, and savor the experience.

Also, maybe then you'll have a few bucks left over for lumber. Good lumber isn't cheap either. ;)

[Richard Dragin]

If we are making decision based soley on color I prefer Grizzly green and biege over Powermatic baby poo yellow. I don't think anyone who is enamored with the old Dewalt speckled green with white fleck paint job should be making shop design decisions either.;)

For the record I have a Griz 0513X and a Dewalt RAS with the motor the original color. I'd take a PM66 in a heartbeat or even better a Sawstop which I have spent a lot of time on.

[Chris Padilla]

How about the older Powermatic Green!! :) It is a little darker than the Griz Green. :)

Personally, I like the "eggshell" white of Minimax.... :D

[Bert Johansen]

I know I'm a voice from the wilderness, but if I were shopping for all those tools at once, I would consider the European combo machines. Have you checked out the Laguna X-31? Five awesome machines (TS with slider, Shaper, 12-inch Jointer, 12-inch Planer, and Horizontal Mortiser) for under $7000. I have a 20-year old Robland X-31, virtually the same machine, and it is a pleasure to use. Plus, it has a footprint slightly larger than a TS. Worth a look? I think so.

[Peter Quinn]

Oh...how I miss the old PM green...nice vintage white stripe..has that 70's cafe racer look perfected. I swear I've seen some in red to. The old Rockwell machines were great...soft curves...subtle gunboat grey, chromed wheels. Steel city nailed that vintage iron look well.

If you like staring at traffic lights than I guess Griz green is ok...I've always wondered though, is that Gall Bladder green? I mean what other part of the bear is that color?

[David DeCristoforo]

"Oh...how I miss the old PM green..."

Slurped from owwm.com:

Here is a dead match for Powermatic Green, again from Porter Paints:
Porter Paints Pro-Master 2000 Oil Satin
124 Ultra Deep Base
20C
12E
2YS(or 5)
26V
It has also been reported that Pittsburgh Paints "Vista Green" is an excellent match for the OLD Powermatic green.

FWIW
YM

[Stan Urbas]

I have to say that unless space is a problem or you're a very occasional woodworker, avoid combination machines. In my last shop I had a router at the end of my saw table and it was a big mistake. The router was always in the way. I finally pulled it out and just had a hole. Currently I have a left-tilt Jet TS, and I think it's great. Also have several Griz tools, and am happy with them. And am looking to but another - probably a 8" jointer and maybe a bigger band saw. You just can't have too many tools.

[Peter Quinn]

Thanks Yoshikuni...I may just paint my TS that color one day. I love owwn, those guys are serious about restoration.

At my last job we had an old PM 12" Jointer...green with the white stripes..worked great but looked tired...I offered to come in and paint it on my own time....boss looked at me like I had three heads!

[Grant Vanbokklen]

Ryan, I wouldn't buy them all at once if I were you. It is a nice thought, but it will drive you nuts.

You'll want to have them all open at once, and that means packing material & boxes everywhere. Your shop must be huge to even contemplate this. That, or you underestimate the size of the packing materials.

Next, you'll have a pile of disassembled machines and you'll end up putting them together too quickly and will be tempted to cut corners on alignmnet. Let's not even think about mixing up parts.

So true. Get a good Table Saw since it will be one of the main focal points that takes up serious space and a good Dust Collector. Set that up with expansion in mind and go from there.

[Steve Alderman]

I cast a vote for a Sawstop - if I were buying a TS, that would be my choice.
I 2nd this.

[Alex Shanku]

Some good / some bad advice on this thread.

Buying tools based on color is totally ridiculous in my opinion.

Also, Powermatics are NOT the best cabinet saws on the market.

If you want to get your shop up and running right away, go for it. Its your money, after all.

The sawstops are nice, well built and receive much praise on this forum. As you have already pointed out, the Grizzly line are great tools and you hear a lot of positive feedback about their entire line.

Good luck whatever you do, and post some pics when your delivery truck gets emptied!

[Nancy Laird]

Just a voice in the wilderness....take a good look at Steel City's machines before you pull the trigger on anything. Please.

Nancy

[Bob Robesky]

I too lost a bit of finger to a dado blade. Not enough for a hospital visit, but it was close enough for me. So, I went out and bought a SawStop. Very inexpensive when you think how much it would cost to repair, or replace, fingers. Plus it's a really nice saw.

[David Giles]

I'll bet Shiraz would throw in a miter box if you asked. That will only leave the radial arm saw for a future purchase.

[jason lambert]

Look at the tools one by one. I vote for a saw stop also besides safety it is one of the best saws out there. You will find each tool one breand does a little better than another. The table saw is a good example.

[J. Z. Guest]

Some good / some bad advice on this thread.

Buying tools based on color is totally ridiculous in my opinion...

Alex, I think that first post about color was mostly tongue-in-cheek, intended to remind us that we probably over-analyze, especially when it comes to table saws.

As for which saw is "best", we will NEVER come to a consensus on that. I wouldn't take a PowerMatic 66 if it was GIVEN to me. (won't fit in my shop!) So it's no good for me. But it's sure good for lots of folks, and lots of folks consider PowerMatic a brand that hasn't compromised quality in the wake of the Chinese manufacturing boom.

[Rich Sprouse]

Last Saturday I bought about $2500 worth of equipment from Woodcraft to get my shop started. i had been looking for a few weeks and was trying sum up different lists of equipment. I wanted to see where I would get the best deal/bang for my buck. For what I was looking for, Woodcraft with their %10 off sale and rebates on the equipment I purchase came up to be about the same or maybe a little cheaper than the Grizzly equip after shipping and everything. If you are in no hurry, sign up for Woodcraft 0% card and spread it out over a year. ( I love using other peoples money for free), but it takes a couple of weeks to get the card.

Richard

[Rick Gifford]

I tell ya what, if your going to buy one brand and all the equipment at one time I'd be asking for a discount for the large purchase. Even without a sale going on, to have a customer spending that much anyone would give at the very least 10% off, or free shipping... or both!

If one snubs you look elsewhere.

Seriously it doesn't hurt to ask. When I spent $1350 on the Jet 18" TS there wasn't a sale going on but I asked for a mobile base thrown in and got it no problem. I think I would have looked elsewhere if denied. Of course I've spent thousands at that store so I am a preferred customer at this point.

Ask. You might save a little money and get some accessories with the savings!

[Don Bullock]

While Shiraz is a great guy who stops by Sawmill Creek and other forums from time to time, I wouldn't suggest that you drop all your cash at one time for his tools. Yes, Grizzly does sell some good tools and a good price. There are others that do the same thing. In other words, shop around to get the "best bang for your buck." Then, if Grizzly or General stick out as the best you can get for the money you have to spend, then go with them.

As for the SawStop suggestion, that's the direction I went and am very happy that I did, but it's not the best choice for everyone.

In answer to the posts on color, my shop is beginning to look like a rainbow -- SawStop & Craftsman blacks, Craftsman blue tool chest, DeWalt yellow, Grizzly green and cream, Rigid orange, Steel City grays plus Delta gray & blue.:D:D Didn't one company make purple tools for a few years?:eek: That's a color I'm missing.;) :cool:

[Chris Padilla]

In answer to the posts on color, my shop is beginning to look like a rainbow -- SawStop & Craftsman blacks, Craftsman blue tool chest, DeWalt yellow, Grizzly green and cream, Rigid orange, Steel City grays plus Delta gray & blue.:D:D Didn't one company make purple tools for a few years?:eek: That's a color I'm missing.;) :cool:

Ugh, I think I'd be ill most of the time in your shop, Don! ;) hahaha

A cornucopia of color!!! :D

[Mike Spanbauer]

One thing to consider is that well made equipment, if cared for within reason, is nearly as good a few years old as new AND you can likely find some of these candidates via craigs list to save a bit of coin. You've an impressive list for sure, but I didn't see you mention dust collection. You probably want to consider a Cyclone if you're going to drop that kind of coin on equipment (and have the luxury of having the DC in a fixed location)

Where are you located?

mike