Sharpening chisels with sandpaper

[Jim Mims]

I sharpened my first chisel. Ever.
I must say, after a hard day at work, it was strangely . . . . therapeutic.
Previously, I bought Mr. Lee’s sharpening DVD and read as much as I could about the scary sharp method.
I picked an old 3/4” chisel that was in decent shape to practice with. I knew the back was going to take some time to lap to a flat surface.
Not having a grinder or sander, I bought 3 sheets of emery cloth at Walmart, coarse, medium and fine. In their automotive dept., I found 2000 grit wet/dry sandpaper. I already had 320 and 600 grit wet/dry sandpaper. I also purchased a can of spray adhesive from the borg.
I cut the emery cloth in half and glued it down to a piece of 12”x12” granite tile and went to work grinding the back, working all the way up to 2000 grit. I didn’t use oil or water.
Then I started using my LV Mk. II jig and went to work on the bevel, taking it all the way up to 600 grit. That’s when I started alternating between the bevel and back, working through 2000 grit.
I wound up with a mirror finish and very sharp chisel. I like it!
Now, can I pepper you with some questions?
What I have:
LV Mk. II jig
LV micro abrasives in 15u, 5u and 0.5u
12”x12” granite tile
2 pieces of tempered glass (formerly shelves) about 7” x 24”

-Do you use some form of oil, or is it just as well to continue dry?
-What size should I cut the sandpaper and set it up? If I need to, I could buy wider pieces of glass.
-It seems it would beneficial to have a lighted magnifying glass in the shop to examine the edge as I work. Is that what you do?
-I would also think the jig roller should stay on the sheet of sandpaper to maintain the correct angle. Is that correct, or is there any danger of long term damage to the roller?
-A friend is buying a Harbor Freight 1”x42” belt sander. If it looks ok, I’d consider purchasing one for grinding, which I think would be a more flexible shop tool than a grinder, for me at this time. Opinions on this tool?

-On some old chisels, it’d be faster to grind the back flat. Bad idea? Or, should I stay with coarse sandpaper and work it?
Thanks!
- Jim

[Sam Yerardi]

On any chisel or iron that has a 'flat' back, you always need to flatten it to the finest grade you can. The cutting edge will be no better than the back. If the back is pitted, etc., you'll never achieve the edge you're looking for. As far as oil, etc., when I use emory I spray WD-40 on it. One of the purposes of the oil is to help transport metal that is being removed away from the area you're working.

[Jim Mims]

Sam said: <On any chisel or iron that has a 'flat' back, you always need to flatten it to the finest grade you can. The cutting edge will be no better than the back. If the back is pitted, etc., you'll never achieve the edge you're looking for.>
Exactly. What's your preferred method for getting to that point?

<As far as oil, etc., when I use emory I spray WD-40 on it. One of the purposes of the oil is to help transport metal that is being removed away from the area you're working.>

I was watching a video where Brent Beach actually used baby oil, which I would prefer over WD-40. What I did was to stop frequently and use a brush on the sandpaper. So, any king of oil is better than not using any?

Thanks,
- Jim

[Brian Kent]

I think baby oil would serve the purpose just fine.

I would not try the grinder for the back, since you would be trying to flatten a surface with a rounded grinder surface. Better to use the flat plate with a coarser sandpaper than a grinder IMHO.

[Dan Barr]

Youre doing a fine job with limited resources.

Many, Many factors come into play when sharpening.

Your idea to buy a sander might seem good now, but, its not built for grinding and is not actually going to give you the level of flat that you are already getting using sanpaper and glass. Also, grits are only available in the hundreds for belt sanders usually. nowhere near as fine as what your doing now.

I use the JET slow speed wet grinder for my initial bevel grinding and flattening on chisels and some plane irons. I then finish up on the waterstones and follow up with a good buffing with the green compound on a muslin wheel. i use the side of the wheel for flattening. the JET is made for this.

when i sharpen I start with the grinder, get a hollow ground and then move to waterstones. i then keep that waterstone wet and sharpen til i get a nice line across the heel and toe so that i know ive sharpened the whole edge. then do the backside (actually called the face) then on to the 6000 waterstone (wet again) and then on to the buffing.

The grinder has a tray of water that keeps debris cleaned off of the wheel. the waterstones stay soaked and i put more water on them as i sharpen for the same reason. this allows the stone to cut more efficiently because the debris is cleared away so often.

to contrast, when you sand dry, your debris builds up immediately and very little cutting is going on because the debris is "floating" your metal above the cutting edges. this happens very quickly, im sure you know.

for you right now, stay with what youve got and expect to spend money on sandpaper. set some money aside and when you feel comfortable spending it, get a waterstone with 1000 and 6000 grit sides or get two seperate stones. you can get the 1000/6000 combo stone for about $30.00 or more at woodcraft. then get yourself a little plastic trac to put it in. i got a plastic pencil bin and cut the sides off to lower it some. only cost a dollar.

you will still be using your sandpaper to flatten your waterstone and maybe to put an initial bevel on a badly dinged chisel or iron.

you wont really need to buff the edge to a mirror shine with a grinder, muslin wheel and green compound. you can take an old leather belt and use the backside and rub some buffing compound into that. that will work well but slower. remember not to run the chisel into the belt edge first. youre going to rub it backwards to buff but keep the bevel angle so as not to round over the edge. this is basicly the same thing the barber does when he stropping his straight razor.

after you get comfortable with the waterstone you might consider buying the tormek or jet slow wet grinder systems. or you might want to go with diamonds or whatever.

whatever you do though, sharpening is a learning process for anyone new to it. you will inevitably waste some money here and there, maybe drop a waterstone on accident, maybe even drop a chisel. those are easy to get past though. (assuming you didnt have to go to the hospital after dropping the chisel. the learning comes in mostly when you start trying to get better and better when you sharpen. trying to keep a perfect square edge on a blade is a challenge. trying to get the perfect camber in an iron can also be tough. all these things will pop up and frustrate you. dont give up, just keep learning and keep posting here and im sure plenty of people will respond to help you out.

ciao,

dan

[David DeCristoforo]

First off, WD40 is not an oil, it's a solvent. "Baby" oil is (like most "pharmaceutical" oils as well as most furniture "polishes") is mostly mineral oil which can be purchased at any drug store for very little and will work fine. Also the oil sold as "sewing machine oil" works good as it is very "light" and will wash away the fine particles better than a heavier oil like mineral oil. But it's not as cheap.

YM

[Jim Mims]

First off, WD40 is not an oil, it's a solvent. "Baby" oil is (like most "pharmaceutical" oils as well as most furniture "polishes") is mostly mineral oil which can be purchased at any drug store for very little and will work fine. Also the oil sold as "sewing machine oil" works good as it is very "light" and will wash away the fine particles better than a heavier oil like mineral oil. But it's not as cheap.
YM
Thanks Yoshikuni.
And you too Dan, excellent post!

- Jim

[Bart Leetch]

I think if you'll go read here you find that WD40 is 15-25% petroleum based oil.


http://wd40.com/Brands/pdfs/msds-wd40_aerosol.us.pdf

I have used WD40 when using the scary sharp method & it worked ok. I mostly did it dry though. Now I use the WS 3000 & water stones.

[Sam Yerardi]

Jim,

I stepped away for a bit. I guess I misread your question. When I sharpen my chisels, I have an old circular rotating fine stone that I use for the backs. I work the first inch from the edge. I use this until the back edge is completely addressed. I'll polish it a bit with compound and a felt wheel. Then I start on the bevels. I go through the same process. I have also used the sandpaper route and have gotten good results. I have also used several different grades of oil, in addition to WD-40. WD-40 is a solvent, yes, but you can actually use water instead of oil. I've never tried it but I have read at least two well-known woodworkers indicate that you can use water. All the fluid is doing is carrying the metal away. Very little cooling is really required if any. Whatever works for you gives you a starting point. If you are getting the edge you want, there's really no reason to try other methods but if you're like me you like to experiment.

[David DeCristoforo]

And, also, you can buy thread cutting oil for around twelve dollars a quart and that works well too.

YM

PS Bart is correct...WD40 does have some oil in it. What I should have said was that WD40 is not sold as a lubricant but as a solvent.

[Ray Sheley]

I use water to hold the paper to the glass or granite, then I use water as the lubricant when abrading the steel it works fine. And as long as I am attentive afterward, rust is not an issue, clean it and dry it!

[Zahid Naqvi]

I use 3 in 1 because it has a better dispenser, I have used baby oil before. either one is fine.

[Brian Kent]

Sam, do you use the flat side or the curved surface of he rotating stone on the back of the chisel?

[Tom Hamilton]

Sam, I'm a Scary Sharp enthusist and student. So, WD-40 works fine, so does water, (a spray bottle, empty Windex bottle, works great), I also use kerosene, in a spray bottle, or mineral spirits.

It really doesn't matter because the liquid is carrying the swarf away from the edge. And the swarf doesn't care what it is swimming in. But do use a liquid.

The "flatten the back first" counsel is right on target. Then do the bevel, either freehand or with a jig. Really, when you go to four digit abrasives you will be sharp, freehand or with a jig. The steel will rule, not the jig.

Best regards, Tom, in Houston.

[Jim Mims]

Sam, I'm a Scary Sharp enthusist and student. So, WD-40 works fine, so does water, (a spray bottle, empty Windex bottle, works great), I also use kerosene, in a spray bottle, or mineral spirits.

It really doesn't matter because the liquid is carrying the swarf away from the edge. And the swarf doesn't care what it is swimming in. But do use a liquid.

The "flatten the back first" counsel is right on target. Then do the bevel, either freehand or with a jig. Really, when you go to four digit abrasives you will be sharp, freehand or with a jig. The steel will rule, not the jig.

Best regards, Tom, in Houston.
I'm not Sam, but I appreciate the post!
I'd like to try this again.
I have 8-1/2 x 11 sheets of LV 3m PSA micro abrasives.
What size do you cut the sheets when you use them?
Do you have separate pieces of glass for each grit or do you share one piece of glass with multiple grits?
Does it help you to examine the edge with some sort of magnifying glass or bright light?
Should the jig's roller stay on the sandpaper?
Thanks!
- Jim

[jonathan snyder]

I'm not Sam, but I appreciate the post!
I'd like to try this again.
I have 8-1/2 x 11 sheets of LV 3m PSA micro abrasives.
What size do you cut the sheets when you use them?
Do you have separate pieces of glass for each grit or do you share one piece of glass with multiple grits?
Does it help you to examine the edge with some sort of magnifying glass or bright light?
Should the jig's roller stay on the sandpaper?
Thanks!
- Jim

Jim,

I cut the paper a bit wider than the widest chisel or plan iron I plan to sharpen.

I use all 3 pieces on the same piece of glass.

I do sometimes look at the edge with a cheap jewelers loop. Lots of folks will probably say that is not necessary, but it has helped me advance my sharpening skills.

Either always keep the roller on the paper or always keep it off the paper. I don't think it really matters, as long as you are consistent.

Here (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=60462&d=1174106810) is a picture of my setup. It 3/8" glass on top of melamine covered particle board.

HTH
JOnathan

[Jim Mims]

Jim,

I cut the paper a bit wider than the widest chisel or plan iron I plan to sharpen.

I use all 3 pieces on the same piece of glass.

I do sometimes look at the edge with a cheap jewelers loop. Lots of folks will probably say that is not necessary, but it has helped me advance my sharpening skills.

Either always keep the roller on the paper or always keep it off the paper. I don't think it really matters, as long as you are consistent.

Here (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=60462&d=1174106810) is a picture of my setup. It 3/8" glass on top of melamine covered particle board.

HTH
JOnathan
I can't begin to tell you how much I appreciate your response Jonathan.
That's just the kind of practical answer I needed.
Thanks!
I needed to get my hands on something last night, so I grabbed a particularly sorry chisel and went to work on the face with some coarse emery cloth glued down to a granite tile. I took the advice of using some kind of oil and grabbed our bottle of baby oil. In no time at all, the oil had penetrated the emery cloth and it slipped off the tile. :(
I'm still learning.
- Jim