My First EVER Picture Frame - oops!

[David Sallee]

Hi all,

Well, I decided to try out my new TS using the miter gauge for the angled cuts to make a picture frame. Yea, I know simple project but I have never done one before.. OR used a miter gauge.. LOL

OK, first thing I did was to check to make sure the TS blade was square... check. next, set my miter gauge to 45 deg and do a few test cuts. well, it was off about 1.5 degrees had to set it to 43.5 degrees to get a "square" 90 degree angle for the frame corners.

now, all this time I'm remembering what you all have said to be "constant" on the side pressure on my miter because of the sloppiness of my miter bar.... went pretty good I think....

I used the TS to cut my rabbet (3 passes) ... I don't have a router yet.. LOL

The corners are jointed by using corner splines... boy, this was interesting.... To cut the groove for the spline in the 1/2 x 2 's , I had to make my own ZCI for my TS.. Because of my limited tools, I clamped a scrap piece of wood to the top of the TS and run the blade up through it to get my ZCI I needed so my "narrow" pieces could be cut.

Now before you get to the pics, remember this is my VERY FIRST picture frame, cutting angles and using splines! Oh and BTW, I have clamps but no "frame" clamps... I tried every way I could think of to use these to square my picture frame on a dry run... nothing would work... I had to resort to "holding" them till the glue dried somewhat, hold for 1 min, check squareness, hold again, ck again, hold again, ck again.. you get the idea..... This all went fine until I got to the last side and I had TWO joints to deal with .... Needless to say, I did goof on the LAST joint... grrrrrr.... you can see it the pics below......

Sorry about all the pics ... I think it went well for my first try... learned a few things along the way....

I didn't decide to document this until it was all glues up....

I used a coping saw to trim the splines then file them flush....

http://www.dsalleephotography.com/images/woodworking/pictureframe/Img_5751b.jpg


http://www.dsalleephotography.com/images/woodworking/pictureframe/Img_5755b.jpg

Hows my FIRST rabbet look??

I know, I know, I cut the groove tooooo close to the rabbet!



http://www.dsalleephotography.com/images/woodworking/pictureframe/Img_5757b.jpg

Notice the "bad" corner? ....



This is after the trimming and pre-sanding with 180 by hand.

Front:

http://www.dsalleephotography.com/images/woodworking/pictureframe/Img_5763b.jpg


http://www.dsalleephotography.com/images/woodworking/pictureframe/Img_5764b.jpg

http://www.dsalleephotography.com/images/woodworking/pictureframe/Img_5761b.jpg

BAD corner!!! Can this be fixed?? I "heard" you could mix some glue and fine sawdust and "pack" the gap then sand and it will work??


http://www.dsalleephotography.com/images/woodworking/pictureframe/Img_5760b.jpg


The Back:

http://www.dsalleephotography.com/images/woodworking/pictureframe/Img_5769b.jpg

http://www.dsalleephotography.com/images/woodworking/pictureframe/Img_5766b.jpg

http://www.dsalleephotography.com/images/woodworking/pictureframe/Img_5765b.jpg

So, does anyone know how I can fix the corner? weird thing is, ALL the corners are square! SO, I think this is the "sloppy miter bar" syndrome coming out... I think I might have forgot to apply pressure on one of my cuts... ALL other corners are GREAT!

Here is what I learned doing this project:

1. Get or MAKE a frame jig for clamping!
2. Don't cut SO close to the rabbet!
3. Make sure you cover ALL of the joint with glue!
4. Make a better ZCI that fits in the insert spot!

Any and ALL comment welcome!

Thanks for looking
Dave

[Bill Huber]

For me I don't use the miter gauge to cut frames.

I use a sled and I cut on each side of the blade.

If you set your sled up with a 90 degree fence on it and then cut on each side of the blade it can be off a few degrees but they will still go together without a gap.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=77613

[Kevin Lucas]

I made a sled to do miters and dont have clamps either but found a clamp jig was quick and easy I made from scrap and a few carriage bolts from a borg

http://sawdustmaking.com/Picture%20Frame%20Clamp%20copy/picture_frame_clamp.htm

[Jason Scott]

You should be able to fill that gap and it will look fine, especially for a picture frame, after finishing I doubt you'll notice it. Just dab in some CA medium viscosity glue and then start sanding, the dust and glue will mix and fill the gap. You may need to do it a few times, good luck and post pics when shes done!

[David Sallee]

Thanks Bill, yea, I seen that one and have it bookmarked as a to-do project..

--------------

Thanks Kevin ... I will be making one of those also... :D


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Thanks Jason... I heard that you could but wanted to be sure.... I will post the finished product when done....

Now to learn about "finishes" :rolleyes:

Dave

[David DeCristoforo]

The thing about square frames...the corners do not have to be exactly 45 degrees for the joints to close. They just have to "match". In other words if one side is 46 degrees and the other is 44, the joint will close and the corner will square up. With square frames, it's always easy to get three corners to close. It's that last one that gives you fits! So try the method suggested by Kevin. As long as the "sled" fences are at 90 degrees, the corners will always fit. Of course, it is also critical that the pieces be of equal length so some sort of end stop arrangement should be used.

When clamping square frames, you need four clamps, two in each direction on alternate sides of the frame. Lay the first two clamps on the bench, lay down your frame, and then place the other two clamps on top and snug them up equally or as needed to "adjust "the corners. Of course, you could always spend some money on specialized "corner clamps" but plain old pipe clamps will do fine and they are inexpensive.

It is good that you are taking a positive attitude about this and allowing yourself to learn from your mistakes. Too many people would have just tried to hide the bad joint with putty before taking the pics. Making mistakes + learning from them = experience.

YM

[Chris Padilla]

Too many people would have just tried to hide the bad joint with putty before taking the pics. Making mistakes + learning from them = experience.

YM

Putty, sawdust/glue, caulk, spackle, PAINT...you name it, I've used it to hide mistakes. :D

[David Sallee]

Thanks YM.... I figure I'm not really going to learn to do it right if I try to hide it. Yea, I might learn how to hide something pretty good, but won't learn how to do it correct so I won't make the mistake next time.

Thanks
Dave

[Jason Scott]

I was taught by guys on this very board that "the mark of a good craftsman is not being perfect, but hiding the mistakes so it looks perfect". Ever since then I stopped being so hard on myself, I try to do the best I can, and when I make a dovetail a little to big, I add a shim, some ca/sanding and go on. Only seasoned woodworker will be able to tell, and honestly I think a "respectable" fix, like dutchmans patches, or even shims in dovetails (which I have a lot in my first set of hand cut dovetails) add character to the piece. I mean honestly, you can purchase a Leigh jig that will do it perfect everytime, so I feel like a shim here or there adds to the "hand crafted" feel. Now the trick for me, is to be able to do it by hand, but it look like it was a leigh jig lol, I got a ways to go. Oh and also remember this is wood, it can change on a daily basis. I remember cutting something so dead on and when I came back a couple days later it was slightly off, that's when I decided I would stop freaking out if something is a hair off.

[Lee Schierer]

Most of the time you can clamp your frame pieces with masking tape around the corner. Asemble the two piece so the tips touch then fold the joint. The tape will hold it shut.

When cutting the sides, make sure the two opposite sides are absolutely identical in length. I use a stop block to insure pieces ar cut the same.

I also use a sled with a 90 degree set up for most frames. I always cut adjoingin corner pieces on the right and left side of the jig. As others have said 44 + 46 = 90 too.

I generally cut my pieces alittle long and then dry fit them. Look for any gaps and adjust the set up as needed to eliminate the gaps. The dry fit will help you adjust the angle a bit before you get to the final length. In your case, each 45 is probably a couple of tenths under 45 degrees and when multiplied by 8 gives you the gap you see.

[David DeCristoforo]

Well, Chris has a very valid point. We have all done it. I worked on a very "high end" project where the rule was "No Putty!" The foreman would become apoplectic if he saw putty being used and even fired a couple of guys just to make the point. But everyone had a small can hidden away and I can assure you, there were many small imperfections filled with glue and sawdust when no one was looking!

YM

[Lee Koepke]

Great attitude !!!

I myself just finished a project that I didnt have any plans for. Winged it from start to finish with only one critical dimension.

I miscut, misjudged, dropped my way to THREE good learning techniques ... when I got finished, even though it went thru all those issues, it looks pretty good ( I havent posted pics yet )

IMO, thats how I learn. Next time, i may make mistakes, but NOT the same ones !!!!

[Jim Kirkpatrick]

Not bad for a first try!
Accurate miters are all about stock preparation. Opposing sides should be cut at exactly the same length and miters at precisely 45 degrees. Best way to acheive air tight joints is by using a miter sled with stops. I've made hundreds of frames over the years using The Dubby miter sled.
PS I would suggest buying some Pony band clamps. They're about $12 at Home Depot. Don't bother with the fancy "frame" clamps for $25 +, the band clamps work fine.

[David DeCristoforo]

I also have a ton of "spring" mitre clamps like these:
http://www.brandsonsale.com/ht-001350.html
and they work great with two "caveats". The pieces must fit because these clamps do not provide enough pressure to close an improperly fitting joint and also, because they bite into the wood, they leave a small "moon" which must be filled (Similar to a pin nail hole).

YM

[David Sallee]

Thanks all for the tips...

Ok Ok , I'll start "covering" my mistakes..:rolleyes: and see if YOU ALL can spot them.. :D .....


Thanks again for all the tips.... I think my next projects are going to be that miter sled and a 90 degree sled.... and a ZCI for my TS

Dave

[Joe Chritz]

What you have is compounding errors. Even if each joint is off just a fuzz it adds up over 4 corners.

There are lots of ways to make perfect miter corners but the easiest is with a miter sled on the table saw or maybe two dedicated chop saws. Assuming you don't have dedicated picture framing equipment.

I try to make several at one time and use my SCMS and take 15-20 minutes to get it set up just right. Someday I will make a sled.

Joe

[David Sallee]

What you have is compounding errors. Even if each joint is off just a fuzz it adds up over 4 corners.

Thanks Joe

I can see how that would happen... AND is 99.99999% probably where I went wrong.. :eek:

BUT, this is a learning process and I have learned that I REALLY need to build this sled with stop blocks so EVERY piece is the same .. LOL


Dave