Do the local public schools near you still have shop classes?

[Ben Cadotte]

Another post made me think of this (not alot of young woodworkers). I had shop classes available to me from the 6th grade up. Are we not only loosing our industry but also the education to make things with our hands?

I know the town I just moved out of did not have a wood shop class any more. The town I live in now only has an elemetary so no shop there. Jr and High school goes to next town over. But I don't know. Has the cuts to the educational systems near you axed the shop classes?

Just wondering.

[Scott Haddix]

The middle school that my son goes to offers a 'Tech' class for 7th and 8th graders that teach them the fundamentals of woodworking and metal working. It is actually very popular and hard to get into because of the demand.

I haven't looked into the local high school yet, but will try and do that over the next few days and post that information.

My twin took woodworking throughout high school and that fueled his life long passion for the hobby, which is what eventually got me hooked too. Without those classes, I doubt we'd ever have taken it up.

We live in Cypress, TX, which is a basically part of Houston.

[Mike Heidrick]

I took a welding class last spring at the local CC and it was held at a local high school. While I was in clas they closed down the woodshop. Tools went into storage. The room was made into a new weight room for the football team. Sad day.

That CC just built a new industrial center so now they have an all new welding classroom with all new equipment. I do not know about WW there though.

[Phil Thien]

Live in fairly affluent area of SE Wisconsin (although I'm in the cheap seats :D). Middle school has wood shop. My 12 yo just finished and love it.

The high school also offers wood shop. BUT, older (17) daughter can't get it because they offer it to boys, first.

She could press it and get in, but feels there are boys that actually NEED the class. Some won't go on to college and may find their way with the tools. She always has my shop, and she doesn't see it as a career.

[John Fricke]

I'm sure budget crunch is a big factor. My son is a froshmen in HS and from his experience, the sate mandated educational courses are leaving less and less time for tech classes in the student schedule

[George Sanders]

My local schools shut down metal and woodworking classes ten years ago. They auctioned of all the machinery and tools. Just as well as my town; like most other small towns, has lost 95% of its industry. I live in Illinois and they just started a new grading system in which no one gets a failing grade. They only teach PC ideas and other feel good stuff that isn't going to help them in the workplace; provided they can find a job at all. They might as well shut the schools down for all the good they're doing.
I taught my kids HOW to think and not what to think. I told them that in the workplace no one cares about your self esteem. They only care about what you produce. If you don't produce then you won't be there very long.

[Keith Starosta]

My 6th-grader son started at a brand new middle school this past Fall. During our orientation tour, I was shocked when I saw the woodshop they had! It was beautiful!! :eek: I tracked down the teacher, and talked with her for a few minutes. She had a great deal of input into what went into the shop. Lots of high end equipment, stopping just short of a Sawstop. I was somewhat disappointed by that.

My son took the class and LOVED it! :D

- Keith:D

[Kevin Godshall]

When I was supervising a Finishing Dept for a kitchen and bath cabinet maker, I was approached by one of the local shop teachers about what skills they should be teaching in order for these students to get into the "wood business". I was kind of surprised to hear from him that basically, the shop class had deteriorated into more of a crafting type atmosphere and project, rather than learning basic and advanced skills.

I went over indepth with him what I looked for in hiring new people, i.e. reading and understanding different types of measuring devices, wood identification, knowledge of basic joinery and structure, etc etc. Not sure if anything ever came from it. As far as I can tell, they are still churning out Mother's Day gifts and fancy fireplace stock.

[alex grams]

I was fortunate enough that my grandfather ran a cabinet shop for 50+ years, and he and another member of my church were real buddy buddy. The other guy was the wood chop teacher at the local HS. I know we had a good selection of tools 5-8 years ago, but he retired and i have no clue where it is now.

It would be interesting to see how this breaks down geographically. I am in Texas and grew up in a town of about 25000. I imagine High Schools in Texas have more wood and welding classes.

[Scott Long]

I work for a local engineering firm, I was approached by the vocational education director about coming in and teaching a couple of classes on civil engineering. I went to the school and the gave me the grand tour of the wood shop, the metal shop, and the automotive tech shop. Unfortunatly they took some of the space from the wood shop and the metal shop to expand the automative shop. It looked like they were dumping 75% of the funding into the auto shop.

[Lee Koepke]

In the Off-Topic Forum there is a great thread on this subject. Quite a few opinions and comments.

I have issues with the mandated educational requirements and how they are interpreted.

I had made the comment that properly constructed, hand-skills classes can supplement or replace conventional math and science. Not everyone will be a programmer or engineer. Practical mathematics and applications are needed far more often than any of the Calculus I took in HS. With woodworking for example, you learn math, metric conversions, geometry, logic, patience, and reasoning. If you want, throw in biology, ecomomics, tree science, forestry .. the possibilities are endless.

Thinking and planning your way thru a project will prepare even a "college-bound" kid exponentially more than reading from a book. I say this now after lifes experiences ....

There are so many ways to TEACH our youth, yet for some reason we as a society feel compelled to pigeonhole our educational system based on standardized tests. Last I check, MOST kids ( snd subsequent adults ) are not standardized.

Thank you for listening !!!

Lee.

[Ray Moser]

Around here most schools have eliminated both Industrial Arts (my I.A. friends hated being called 'shop' teachers) and home ec. Those things are mostly confined to the county vocational school. I think that 7th and 8th grade boys and girls should have to take both I.A. and home ec. no matter if they are college bound. Having a few skills with tools and in the kitchen hurts no one male or female.:)

[Rod Sheridan]

When my children were in High School, shop classes were common, including woodworking.

I belong to a woodturning club, and our meetings are held ina local High School woodshop. The school actually has two fully equiped shops, with equipment such as

- 8 inch and 12 inch General jointers
- two General 350 saws
- General 14" planer
-Wadkin 32 or 36" planer with knife grinder
-three bandsaws from 14 " to aproximately 30"
- a couple of Rockwell Canada lathes
- two shapers and one router table
- a couple of drill presses and scroll saws

Plus of course, the usual assortment of planes, squares etc. Probably a typical school shop as far as the meories of us grey haired folks go.

That said, a few years ago Diann was looking for a lathe and we walked into the used machinery dealer, and he had a line up of 8 identical Rockwell Canada lathes, from school shop closings.

I suspect that with budget cuts and liability worries, shops are under pressure.

Regards, Rod.

[Tom Hamilton]

Interesting question. The Gulf Coast Woodturners Club held the February meeting in the Deer Park (Houston suburb) woodshop. We had demos on 7 Powermatic lathes build in the late 70s, plus 5 mini's that members brought in.

The shop included a 70's vintage floor model Delta/Rockwell drill press, Rockwell 8" jointer and a Parks planer. Eight or 10 maple topped benches and a dust collector floor sweep that would suck up a large cat completed the set-up.

So, at least at the Deer Park School the shop class is alive and well equipped.

Best regards, Tom

[Don Bullock]

First, let me state that one of the reasons I enjoy woodworking and other "crafts" is because I had some great shop classes in junior high and senior high. In those days we had good facilities and excellent teachers. The classes also taught me what I call "life skills" as well.

Most of the "shop" classes are gone from our public school system. Since politicians, not educators now make the rules in public education, shop classes are not supported. There is no funding for them. High schools today are judged on the percentage of students who graduate and go to college, not how many become "productive" citizens. In addition politicians have placed test scores on academic subjects, especially algebra, as a major measure of a good high school education. As a teacher I have high academic standards for my students, but I'm appalled at what the politicians have done. It will get a lot worse before it will get better. We may never see the return of the shop classes. The agenda of many politicians today is to eliminate public education.

I better end it here -- getting too political. Sorry for the rant.

[Travis Gauger]

Here in north east Wisconsin there was just a big deal on the news about all the extra circular activities and classes that were being cut in the schools due to budget constraints. I personally think that the budget constraints are our voted in politicians way of showwing us how much they value our future, our youth, and our communities well being. Here in Wisconsin, I think that they would rather employ prison gaurds than shop teachers. They would rather invest in our criminals than our youth. This seems to me to be retroactive vs proactive. But what do I know.

[Matt Woessner]

I know that the high school where I went still has a woodworking class, and a welding class. I think they are thinking about shutting the industrial arts class down, so I can imagiane that these other classes are not far behind. What a shame.

[John Thompson]

No..... "where have all the flowers gone.. long time passing......"

Sarge..

[Jim Broestler]

Only the high schools still have shop classes. The rest are gone due to budget constraints and the lack of qualified instructors. I've told my wife that when I die I'd like all my tools and machinery donated to a school as the basis for a woodshop, provided they can and are willing to pay the insurance costs and can find someone to run it.

[Brad Townsend]

As a retired high school guidance counselor who spent much of his working hours in both college advisement and building master schedules, I would offer this. The problem with industrial arts (our instructor hated the word "shop") and other vocational classes is not only budgetary, but SCHEDULING. These days, there is a higher percentage of students going on to college. This is good, for the most part, but in a normal six-period day students have a very hard time fitting in the hard academics required for college admission and still have room for electives.

A number of years ago, the school I worked at went to an eight period cycle and enrollment in vocational classes shot up immediately. Students could fit the required academics in their schedules and still have room for vocational electives. Not only did enrollment soar, but the mix of quality students in those classes was a huge asset to everyone. Industrial arts was no longer the "dumping ground" for marginal students. We had class valedictorians taking welding, woodworking and soil science, loving every minute of it.

There are also instances where the vocational classes will provide a huge boost to a college applicant's prospects. The most competitive colleges are always looking for ANYTHING to distinguish one 1500 SAT from another. We had a top-notch student who was also an FFA section president - the result of the vocational agriculture classes he had taken. Having that on his application made him stand out from other applicants with high GPAs and test scores and got him into Yale. Strange as it might seem, pictures of an outstanding woodworking project submitted with an application to an Ivy League school would definitely be an asset.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

I've told my wife that when I die I'd like all my tools and machinery donated to a school as the basis for a woodshop

If they heard this back in my high school days, they would have sabotoged the brakes on your car. :)

But you're safe today. Most kids don't know how brakes work.

-Jeff :)

[Kent Cartwright]

In Petoskey, Michigan, our high school vocational education students build a house every year; from soup to nuts.

Our drafting class designs the house and produces the building plans and documents. Our building trade classes then take over, and builds the house. The students draw up the supply lists and work with the suppliers in getting the materials. They then build the house, and cover all the trades: electrical, plumbing, roofing, drywall, doors & windows, cabinetry, etc. The only thing we sometimes hire out is insulation and drywall finishing. In those instances, the contractor provides instruction and hands-on experience to the students, but finishes the job so the students can continue on in other areas.

Our students compete in state and national level competitions every year. Some of our students, after placing at the national competion, were offered full-time jobs starting at $50k, to run job crews in disaster-recovery areas!

Now I would like to say that all of our students who take these classes are excellent students and all go on to bigger and better things. The reality is that often they arrive at their first day of class and still can't read a tape measure or do fraction calcs in their head. However, many times this class is the one that convinces them to fix their math skills, or reading skills,or whatever skill they are lacking. I will stop here, as the WHY and HOW of the student's lack of skills are for another topic.

Kent

[Ben Cadotte]

In Petoskey, Michigan, our high school vocational education students build a house every year; from soup to nuts.

Our drafting class designs the house and produces the building plans and documents. Our building trade classes then take over, and builds the house. The students draw up the supply lists and work with the suppliers in getting the materials. They then build the house, and cover all the trades: electrical, plumbing, roofing, drywall, doors & windows, cabinetry, etc. The only thing we sometimes hire out is insulation and drywall finishing. In those instances, the contractor provides instruction and hands-on experience to the students, but finishes the job so the students can continue on in other areas.

Our students compete in state and national level competitions every year. Some of our students, after placing at the national competion, were offered full-time jobs starting at $50k, to run job crews in disaster-recovery areas!

Now I would like to say that all of our students who take these classes are excellent students and all go on to bigger and better things. The reality is that often they arrive at their first day of class and still can't read a tape measure or do fraction calcs in their head. However, many times this class is the one that convinces them to fix their math skills, or reading skills,or whatever skill they are lacking. I will stop here, as the WHY and HOW of the student's lack of skills are for another topic.

Kent

I did that my senior year in High School. The 2 high schools split the day working on the house. We had the morning shift, they had the afternoon. Same thing with design. The architecture classes would do the drawings (was a competition). And the winner would be chosen at end of the school year (house to be built next year). I learned more from that class than I did 2 years at a carperters apprentice program (lousy instructors, just putting time in).

As for woodshop. Only year I did not take it was my senior year because of the homebuilding class. I miss the old place. Could care less about the rest of the school building. :D:D

[Victor Stearns]

During my middle/high school youth, I took every "vocational" class offered at my school with the exception of ag classes. (Graduated in 1980.) I wanted to know as much as I could about working on things. My father was a mechanic, yes a mechanic not technician. We spent many hours in the garage with him teaching myself and two younger brothers the fine points of tuning up someone's car, lawn mower, or learning the art of woodworking. While I can still remember the Father's Day that he bought a new Craftsman tablesaw, I was not entirely sure what this thing did. After taking several classes in middle school I was bit by the woodworking bug.
Now to the question at hand. The local high school does not appear to offer much in the way of woodworking or other vocational classes. They do offer a building trades class in which the students do construct a home. (I had to check with my 10th grade son prior to making this statement.) It seems a shame that we as a society today do not put as much value in the hand crafted items as in the past. While I do agree that most youth today will further their educations with a trip to college, I personally think that the time spent in a shop environment is time will spent.
I do have one nephew who attended a welding school after completing high school as he felt that this better fit his life plans. He too attended a high school welding vocational class.
I do understand that today the education system is pushing for better students, better people for society, and who are better educated than I was at that level. I do however wish that included some shop time.
Sorry for the soap box stand.
Victor