TS aligned at 90 but not 45degrees

[Robert Meyer]

I aligned my table saw blade to the miter slot at 90 degrees without any problems. However, when I check the blade tooth tilted at 45 degrees it's off 1/16" back to front. I know I have the read the cause of this somewhere but can't locate the fix for it. Saw is a Steel City hybrid. Not covered in the manual. Any Solution?

[Jamie Buxton]

Here you go...

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=15546

[glenn bradley]

If you're just getting setup I will assume the saw is new. I would pursue this under warranty and pull the saw top under the guidance of SCTW tech support if instructed to do so. But, . . . that's me.

You can adjust this via shims as described in the link Jamie provided but I would call tech support first, they may just send someone out.

[Robert Meyer]

Unfortunately the saw is two years old. I took off the top when I uncrated it as the alignment had been bumped in shipping. I aligned blade to slot easily but didn't think about 45 degree check. I don't think there were any shims between cabinet and top but thanks to your help I will shim it correctly now. Jim Barrett said--
"Ted describes the geometry correctly. The thing to remember is that if the rear of the blade is to the right of the front of the blade, the front of the table needs to be shimmed up. If the rear of the blade is to the left, the rear of the table gets the shims." Think I will get the Table Saw Alignment Jr. instead of my Starrett combination square to align it all again. Thanks for the help!

[Jamie Buxton]

Robert --
In that original post I described the theory of how a table saw can be spot-on at 90 degrees, and off at 45 degrees. That theory applies to your saw too. However, the shimming scheme I used on my cabinet saw might not work on your hybrid saw. On my saw, the trunnions connect to the cabinet, so shimming the table changes the alignment of the trunnions to the table -- which is what is needed. On a hybrid saw, I believe that the trunnions connect directly to the table. (Folks, am I right on this or wrong?) If the trunnions do connect directly to the table, you need some other way to change the relationship of the trunnions to the table. However, I've never worked on a hybrid, so I can't tell you what it is.

[Eric Haycraft]

Robert --
In that original post I described the theory of how a table saw can be spot-on at 90 degrees, and off at 45 degrees. That theory applies to your saw too. However, the shimming scheme I used on my cabinet saw might not work on your hybrid saw. On my saw, the trunnions connect to the cabinet, so shimming the table changes the alignment of the trunnions to the table -- which is what is needed. On a hybrid saw, I believe that the trunnions connect directly to the table. (Folks, am I right on this or wrong?) If the trunnions do connect directly to the table, you need some other way to change the relationship of the trunnions to the table. However, I've never worked on a hybrid, so I can't tell you what it is.

Using the typical definition of a hybrid, you are correct. Shimming a hybrid is more complicated, but the basic concepts are the same.

[Robert Meyer]

Fortunately the Steel City hybrid saw has the trunnions mounted to the cabinet. The table top mounts to the cabinet top. I think I shouldn't have any problem shimming the trunnions. I believe the SC and the Sears hybrids both have trunnions attached to cabinet.

[glenn bradley]

Robert --
In that original post I described the theory of how a table saw can be spot-on at 90 degrees, and off at 45 degrees. That theory applies to your saw too. However, the shimming scheme I used on my cabinet saw might not work on your hybrid saw. On my saw, the trunnions connect to the cabinet, so shimming the table changes the alignment of the trunnions to the table -- which is what is needed. On a hybrid saw, I believe that the trunnions connect directly to the table. (Folks, am I right on this or wrong?) If the trunnions do connect directly to the table, you need some other way to change the relationship of the trunnions to the table. However, I've never worked on a hybrid, so I can't tell you what it is.

He's OK, his hybrid trunnions are cabinet mounted like mine. Great advice for him from all.

[Tom Veatch]

... Jim Barrett said--
"Ted describes the geometry correctly. The thing to remember is that if the rear of the blade is to the right of the front of the blade, the front of the table needs to be shimmed up. If the rear of the blade is to the left, the rear of the table gets the shims." ...

Would that not be reversed for a left tilt saw? Shimming the front of a left tilt would move the rear end of the line of intersection of the tilted blade plane with the top plane to the right.

A more general statement would be that adding shims to the back of the table moves the back of the blade in the direction of the tilt. Adding shims to the front moves the front of the blade in the direction of the tilt. And, of course, removing shims reverses those movements.

[Jeff Cord]

In an earlier response a comment was made that a hybrid is more difficult than a cabinet saw.
Well, I have a hybrid with the trunion attached to the top so how do I adjust?
In my case the blade is left-tilt and when tilted 45-degrees the blade is 20-thousandths closer at the rear of the blade than at the front of the blade.
TIA.
Jeff

[Tom Henderson2]

In an earlier response a comment was made that a hybrid is more difficult than a cabinet saw.
Well, I have a hybrid with the trunion attached to the top so how do I adjust?
In my case the blade is left-tilt and when tilted 45-degrees the blade is 20-thousandths closer at the rear of the blade than at the front of the blade.
TIA.
Jeff

I believe the process is the same -- but it is just a much bigger PITA since you have to get the shims between the trunnion and the table.

-Tom H.

[Cary Falk]

Unfortunately the saw is two years old.

Doesn't Steel City has a 5 year warranty?

[Mike Wilkins]

Personally I don't rely on the 45 degree settings on a table saw. I have an older model Rockwell/Delta Unisaw, which contains a lot of cast iron, so it should hold its settings for a long time after proper set up.
Whenever I am making angle/miter cuts I always pull out a good 45deg square and check the blade against the table. Works every time.

[Tom Veatch]

...In my case the blade is left-tilt and when tilted 45-degrees the blade is 20-thousandths closer at the rear of the blade than at the front of the blade.
...

Assuming that you're measuring from the right side miter slot, you need to move the rear of the blade to the left, in the direction of tilt. Therefore, you'll need to add shims at the rear trunnion attach points (or remove shims from the front attach points) until the tilted blade is parallel to the slot.

Since I'm not familiar with the layout of the saw and don't know what kind of access you have to the attachment bolts, I can't advise you on precise methods to install the shims.

I recently relocated my Jet 10" cabinet saw and checked the alignment after the move. After aligning at 0 degrees, I was off about .015 TIR at 45 degrees. I loosened the appropriate attach bolts and tapped a couple of wood wedges into the joint between the table and cabinet until the blade was properly aligned, measured the gap with a feeler gauge, and shimmed accordingly. It took a stack of steel arbor shims totalling about .045 to pull it into a <.005 TIR alignmnent. YMMV.

Mike, what you suggest is good practice, but it's not a case of the tilt angle setting being off. The problem is when the blade is tilted, the blade loses its alignment with the miter slot. It's due to the trunnion tilt axis not being parallel to the axis of the miter slot.

[Jeff Cord]

Mike, it's not that it isn't 45 degrees.
It's that the blade is not aligned to the miter slot when it is at 45 degrees.