Tone down a finish?

[Eric Hartunian]

Hi all, I am finishing an 18th c. corner chair (ala Norm Vandal's book) and really goofed the finish. I dyed the mahogany with a water based dye, and it came out a purple/red color that nearly gave me a heart attack! I don't know what to do. The sample piece I dyed looked good, but on the whole chair, WOW:mad:! I am thinking of using a dark brown gel stain as a glaze. I eventually want the chair to be a deep brown, with just a hint of red. Now, its all red, with no brown in sight.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Eric

[David DeCristoforo]

Call it purpleheart?...No just kidding.... You are going to need something with some strong color in it to kill the red. So a gel might not be the best. I would start with a "dark mahogany" or a "walnut" stain. But these might not get you all the way there (red is really hard to cover) If you go to the paint store, you should be able to get some small tubes of universal tint. Get a black and a burnt umber and use these to darken the stain enough to overcome the red. Needless to say you should color some sample pieces to match the chair and experiment on these first. But, as you have seen, results will vary from one piece of wood to another so it would not be a bad idea to make several samples from pieces selected at random.

YM

[Jim W. White]

A fair amount of the dye might be able to be pulled off the project by repeatedly wiping it down with clean rags wetted with water. The dye is not fixed in the wood. It will come off to a certain extent if you wipe down the peice with water.

My 2 cents,

Jim in Idaho

[Mike Henderson]

You should post your question on the finishing forum. I'm not a finishing person, but I thought that green on top of red would produce brown. Check with someone who really knows color and they might be able to give you some pointers.

Mike

[Alan Turner]

Eric
As others say, try this first on scrap prepared the same way. Mix a dilute green dye, and this will quickly kill the red. Use a couple of coats well thinned to dial it in. Transtint green should do just fine.

[glenn bradley]

This video shows how to modify colors already applied: http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/SkillsAndTechniques/SkillsAndTechniquesArticle.aspx?id=28864

He takes several colors and changes them and changes them back. Pretty cool.

[Robert Rozaieski]

I have an article in an old FWW (I think) on finishing mahogany and the author uses a yellow dye as a first step to kill the pink/red color some prior to subsequent dying and finishing steps. I don't know if the yellow applied after will work but it might be worth a shot.

[Steve Jenkins]

yup green it is. If you use oil for a finish and you want a beautiful brown on mahogany just mix some green dye in the oil and when you wipe it on it gives a really nice soft brown color. You have to test a bit for the amount of green but it really works well.

[Dave Anderson NH]

Hi Eric, As a first step use the same dye on some cutoffs from the same batch of mahogany. Make up at least 4-6 samples. On one I'd simply try half a dozen quick coats of garnet shellac, it will really take down the purple-red color and might be all you need. The suggestions by others are right on the money with using other dyes, so try some of the other approaches on those samples too. If you do decide to use a stain as a glaze, first put down a barrier coat of dewaxed shellac so you don't get too much of the stain into the wood itself which would be very hard to reverse.

The bottom line is that sample pieces will be necessary for testing before you make any changes to the chair itself. As a warning for the future, always test your finish on cutoffs of the same wood before committing to the actual piece itself. But, I'll bet you already know that now.

[David DeCristoforo]

The green dye sounds like a great idea. If you try this, please post the results...

YM

[Robert Rozaieski]

Found the article last night. It's Fine Woodworking No. 164, August 2003. Jeff Jewitt, "Finishing Mahogany".

Eric,
PM me with your email address and I can email you a PDF copy of the article.

Bob

[Lee Stehly]

this is more a response to a Q. that you had on another page... bleach (household) will kill most all waterbased/alcoholbased dye stains. try it on an offcut with the same dye. start with about 10% bleach 90% water. you will probably end up with a solution of 30% bleach 70% water...but more "thin" coats of the bleach solution is better then 1 "heavy"coat. let it dry for at least 24 hours. then wash it with paint thinner or lacquer thinner to remove any bleach residue. if you are using an oil based finish use paint thinner. lacquer use lacquer. if you are using shellac use paint thinner and give it 3 days or so to dry. use a thin coat of shellac for the first coat. like a .5 lbs cut. use that test piece to get your colour! make a few to test your new colour. (with the cleaned bleach wash as a base) i have never had a problem with the bleach but better safe then sorry. hope this helps. unless you have a low quality mahogany it will get that red/brown hue in a year or so... a month if it is a sunny spot. besides a water based dye will fade in time anyhoo

cheers
lee

[Greg Cole]

Hi Eric,
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=744892#poststop

Take a quick read on the finishing schedule posted there by Steve Schoene, I've stuck to his schedule on my hall table so far, so good. I've been hoping to get the rest of the finish done "this weekend" for a few weeks now...:rolleyes:
Anyway, I really like the look of this finish so far. The advertisement from Steve that the yellow would look bad & shellac on it would look worse.... wasn't all that encouraging upon first read, but the samples were "just right" for my liking. If I can get a good pic of how this looks with both dyes and seal coats of shellac, I'll post it-them (depends on where in the world our teenager has taken the digital cam...)
Anyway, if you can "undo" the dye you applied and dislike, I'd really suggest at least doing a sample board along the schedule in the linky....

Cheers.

Greg

[Eric Hartunian]

Thanks for all the comments. I'll try to get some time to work on it this weekend and post some results.
Eric

[Jon Crowley]

Something else to think of... this purplish look, is this the look of just the dye on wood, or with a clear coat of some kind above also? I've found that dyes look horrible after you put them on, then change dramatically when you cover with BLO, shellac, whatever.

[Steve Schoene]

Jon has made a good point. Often dye looks much different when it dries on the wood than when covered with a top coat. Fortunately you can test this without giving up the chance to bleach the dye or to counter it with some complementary dye. To do that just wipe with naptha or paint thinner. While wet it will be pretty close to the color under a top coat.

[E. Richard Roberts 3rd.]

Allan hit it on the head. Just mix up some green water based dye. Come in on the color a little bit at a time so as not to go by the brown you are looking for and when the color is right. Wait a day,one coat of SealCoat, wait 6-8 hrs,scuff LIGHTLY with gray Scotch-Brite,tack and top coat.

I am assuming you will not be pore filling. Good luck,It will turn out fine.

Richard

[robert hainstock]

Most stain can be removed with an application of Oxalic acid. follow the directions. or you might try clorene bleach to lighten the stain. sandpaper will most likely compound the problem. :)
Bob