3D Software?

[Jack Harper]

I just found out that my machine can do 3D images! Somehow that feature was overlooked during training by the manufacturer. After discovering this along with so many other omissions, I guess I should just be thankful they showed me where the power switch was located.

Anyway, I would like to explore this option a bit more I had a sample file sent to me by the Gantry Company. The file carved a nice 3D image but left me wanting more. They sell ready made files for $200-$300 each, possibly a bit pricey. Before I take the plunge to buy some art, I wanted to see what software existed out their for creating my own files. While it is just an 8bit gray scale file, some considerable manipulation obviously takes place to match grays to depth relation. Does anyone have any experience with any software for this type file? Thanks.

[Dan Hintz]

The easiest way to start is to take a 2D B&W image, add a fading drop-shadow to it, and start carving. Often times the only "3D" to an object is from the shadow it leaves behind, so go with it.

[Jack Harper]

Actually Dan, these files are true 3D. The photo, as usual, does not do it justice. The image actually looks like it was meticulously hand carved. I have tried shadowing and manipulating the gray level in a file, but to no avail.

[Joe Pelonio]

The grapes in this one I did came out 3D, I used Corel and Paint to do the gradated fills which took a lot of time. Real 3D software does it a lot faster, and the best way is a digital 3D camera, if you don't mind paying about $2,000.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=26403&highlight=oak

[Doug Griffith]

Not sure of any software but I've experimented with posterizing the image to 16 levels, converting each level to B/W, then color mapping each level to a different raster setting. 15 posterized levels with the final pass as the original greyscale smooths it out a bit. It takes experimenting. I managed to create a smooth 1/2" diameter radius in MDF about 1/8" deep. The same method in acrylic created the same shape but a little rougher.

[Mike Null]

Jack

You can do the job with CorelDraw. There have been a number of threads relating to 3d engraving. Do a search and that should turn them up.

[Jack Harper]

Thanks Mike. I have tried to search 3D engraving but I think I am missing something. If I search 3D, the system informs me my search string is to short. If I search 3D engraving, the system returns all posts with either the word 3D or engraving. I have tried putting quotes around the search string, but it seems to ignore them. I have also tried to add the word "and" between the words and it still does not work. Do you know what I am doing wrong? Thanks.

[Michael Kowalczyk]

Hey Jack,
I know Derk, at Vytek, was working on a 3D software program for a while now. The One that Gantry uses is made by Kern laser. I asked Kern if they would sell one and it comes with a laser if you know what I mean.

I can do some from actual 3D models in ArtCam Pro and then convert to grey scale but the time that it takes to set up a project is way too much unless you are doing hundreds of them and they are relatively small. Say 2x2 or 3x3. You need a fast machine with a lot of power to be profitable.

How long did it take to do your sample?

How much do you think you could sell it for?

Can you make a fair profit adding the rest of the setup, material and prep, Finishing/touchup, packaging, mess up's (you know we all have some:D), Shipping/delivery and any other overhead you may have. I think it is safe to say that if your customer is not the end user that they will want to retail it for 50% to 100% mark up.

So for example, if it can only retail for $20.00 can you make a fair profit at 10.00 each?

You have to ask yourself will the amount of time it takes to create a good working file and the time it takes to actually laser it plus make sure you have clean, consistant, contrasting wood, kind of like basswood, otherwise they will look a little different because of the grain.
Unless your customer desires that type of look. I personally think it is more for the WOW factor unless you land a nice wholesale account so you can keep on repeating the same file. Just my opinion but I have looked into it before.

Sorry if there is some redundancy:confused:

[Jack Harper]

Thanks for the insight Michael. Some of what you were mentioning about cost, schedule and performance was what I was trying to research. I am not a job shop and typically do not take one off orders. Instead, I focus on low volume mass production on the wholesale level. So some of this might work but I'm not sure yet. I feel as a stand along process, it is probably not feasible. However, incorporated in to some of our other processes, it might be a nice complement. To answer your question of time though, I have to slow the machine down to about 10ips to get the image to come out deep enough.

[James Stokes]

Jack, I have made 3-d files a couple ways, In Photoimpact you can use the Embossing filter to make them, you have to play with it some but it does work. I have also made them by taking a gray scale image, Adjust the brightness all most all the way up, every thing but the true blacks will wash out, process that in photograve as file 1. Go back to your image in Photoimpact, lower your brightness some process that. Name that file 2. Go back to Photoimpact and lower your brightness once again. Process that. Then engrave that in order. This will give you a 3-d image. You have to play with it to figure out how much to change the brightness each time but it does work. You might be able to layer the image to do it in one pass but I am not sure. I have played around with it but nothing serious.

[Bob Keyes]

Jack,

I use 2 programs for 3D. TurboCad and AC3D. I use them to program my CNC mill for pens and jewelry. Both of these are in the $200 range and are pretty good.

The best there is, is Rhino. But, alas it is about $2k. As was noted ArtCam is pretty nice too but somewhat limited compared to others.

Good luck.

[sal shepherd]

ck. out this site.. www.vectorart3d.com (http://www.vectorart3d.com)

[Mike Null]

Jack

I believe you did the search correctly. When I did it it turned up several pages of threads many of which had only a reference to 3d.

It does take some reading to find them.

[Wil Lambert]

Jack,

I use 2 programs for 3D. TurboCad and AC3D. I use them to program my CNC mill for pens and jewelry. Both of these are in the $200 range and are pretty good.

The best there is, is Rhino. But, alas it is about $2k. As was noted ArtCam is pretty nice too but somewhat limited compared to others.

Good luck.

ArtCAM is probably the best software for this type of work. It is a relief modeler. These are relief carvings. Perfect relationship. I own ArtCAM, SolidWorks, and PowerSHAPE and would not use any other software for relief modeling than ArtCAM. If it was a true 3D file with undercuts then I would use SolidWorks or SHAPE. ArtCAM is no where near cheap but well worth the cost if you have a CNC or can sell you modeling efforts.

Wil

[Dan Hintz]

Jack, I have made 3-d files a couple ways, In Photoimpact you can use the Embossing filter to make them, you have to play with it some but it does work.
This is the exact method I was talking about before :) It's not completely cut and dry, but with just a little playing you can make some surprisingly nice and detailed 3D images from a standard 2D. The emboss filter makes a drop shadow with a fade, so that gives the 3D effect we're shooting for.

[Mike Null]

Here is a link to one thread.
http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=61713&highlight=mackenzie

[Chad Voller]

If you don't mind learning some software, here's a free, well known app.
http://www.blender.org/

Mostly for illustrative, animation work. But it does 3D, and includes the renderer. I'm not sure of it's shaders and how it's materials work as I haven't used it. But it is based on commercial systems.

I use 3DS Max for 3D at work, and made a grey scale depth map to test the laser 3D out. It is made by putting a falloff map in the diffuse/color channel, that renders the object out whiter the closer it is to the virtual camera, and of course blacker the further away it is.

In the motorcycle sample render here, I reversed the falloff as I wanted to etch from the back of acrylic, so the image would be visible from the front. It didn't turn out that well, too much detail for how small I was engraving.

[Chad Voller]

Hmm, my image didn't upload, will try again.

[Jack Harper]

Thanks everyone for your input. It's back to the secret laboratory to explore all these ideas.

Jack

[Garry McKinney]

Remember your working on percentages, although the laser is suspose to recognize all 256 levels of grey the changes are very small. But it is possible to create a 3-d impression even if it is not real 3-d , but most of it is developing the pattern to give the levels to the laser.

This piece was done in 3-d and 200.00 is more than reasonable for a 3-d pattern considering the time invested to get a pattern. I do a lot of 3-D work, but I have more people say it is to expensive , then those willing to pay for the work.

Excuse the 22 long rifle it was done for reference , for another job I was working on .