TS Safe cut question

[Duncan Potter]

I want to cut a 3/8" x 3/8" dado 3/8" from the end of a 6" wide, 3/4" thk board.

I'd like to set the fence for the end measurement and use the miter to push the board through the dado with the end riding on the fence. Board is 22" lg.

It seems like this would be OK, but a little voice in my head keeps saying "Never use the miter and the fence at the same time!"

Am I dreaming up this rule, or is it real and I'm about to maim myself.

Sorry for the noob question, but I am a noob!

TIA

[Lee Koepke]

If I understand correctly, you are cutting the short side of the board. If so, you do not want to use the miter and the fence at the same time. too much tendency for the board to bind.

Use a 'stop block' clamped to your fence to get your proper location. Make sure the block is clamped BEFORE the blade, that way when you use the miter to push the stock, you have a register point, then the piece is being held and guided ONLLY by the miter guage.

make sense?

[Duncan Potter]

Yes, thanks.

[Nissim Avrahami]

As Lee said...but in colors

niki
82441

[Duncan Potter]

The drawing helps, but....

In the drawing the blade is in the wood while the wood is still against the stop block.

I assume the work piece should be completely off the stop block before the blade begins to bite, yes?

[Kurt Bird]

Duncan,
Nissam's picture is not quite correct. The stop block needs to be positioned so that your board has left contact with the stop block before it engages the blade. You are trying to avoid having any of your board trapped between the block and the blade.
Kurt Bird

[Jared Cuneo]

Nor would I want my hand that close.....Besides, that guy has only 9 fingers :p

JC

[Simon Dupay]

Actually, if you are not cutting though the broad then you can use the fence and the miter gage together theres no chance of binding.

[Tom Veatch]

Second Simon's reply. Through crosscuts should never leave a narrow cutoff trapped between the blade and fence. You're begging to have it thrown back into your face.

Dado cuts which do not completely penetrate the workpiece are not a problem although a stop block can certainly be used. I routinely use the fence and miter gauge simultaneously without a stop block for dado cuts, but always use a stop block when making a through cut.

[Ron Coleman]

This is one cut where the Unifence really pays off. It only takes a few seconds to pull the fence back to clear the blade, lock it in place and make the cut.

[glenn bradley]

Actually, if you are not cutting though the broad then you can use the fence and the miter gage together theres no chance of binding.


Second Simon's reply. Through crosscuts should never leave a narrow cutoff trapped between the blade and fence. You're begging to have it thrown back into your face.

Dado cuts which do not completely penetrate the workpiece are not a problem although a stop block can certainly be used. I routinely use the fence and miter gauge simultaneously without a stop block for dado cuts, but always use a stop block when making a through cut.

With all due respect I totally disagree that a board cannot bind simply because the blade has not exited through the top surface. I agree that the problem of a cutoff causing problems is not present but a long board with a narrow edge 'dragging' along the fence is prone to misaligning during the cut. DAMHIKT. The stop block should be used and the board should not be in contact with it once (preferably well before) the blade is engaged. JMHO.

[Gary Keedwell]

The drawing helps, but....

In the drawing the blade is in the wood while the wood is still against the stop block.

I assume the work piece should be completely off the stop block before the blade begins to bite, yes?
Good catch...I didn't see that the first time.:rolleyes:;)

Gary

[Rod Sheridan]

Nor would I want my hand that close.....Besides, that guy has only 9 fingers :p

JC


Maybe he had the ninth one implanted as a spare?

Regards, Rod.

[Scott duprat]

I agree with Glenn, any time you use a miter guage with the fence the chance of twisting the board and binding with the fence increases. It would seem that the closer you are to the fence the less that it will happen (the miter gauge would act like a pivot) - but the further away you move the fence (away from the blade setup), the more likely the chance the board can twist and bind. You create three points of contact...fence, cutter, and miter gauge - the miter gauge acts as the pivot, any skew of the board off of the line of cut now twists the board and forces it into the fence and a kickback could result. Now in an extreme case you still could twist the board even with a stop/spacer block ahead of the blade, but it does give you a measure of error - you still can have a kickback with just the miter guage and the dado, again twisting the board as you pass over the cutter. This time instead of pinching into the fence the board binds on the cutter and is thrown over the cutter and to the front of the machine. This is how I was taught, have read and have taught to others. There are safer ways to do dadoes, routers with sleds, by hand. This is just one area that I think the europeans got it right with table saw safety (the arbor is too short to allow for stacked dadoes on most machines).

Now if this is something that you have done over and over for many years, great. If you are just starting out and it seems unsafe in anyway, ask...most of the time you are correct when the spidey senses tingle. Have someone show you, not just read a forum post, until you feel comfortable with the operation. I have had many students who have claimed to do something at home "all the time" and really have no clue how to perform something safely, cause "Uncle Jimmy showed me how."

Donkey

[Nissim Avrahami]

The drawing helps, but....

In the drawing the blade is in the wood while the wood is still against the stop block.

I assume the work piece should be completely off the stop block before the blade begins to bite, yes?

I think that I would also want the workpiece out of the stop before it touches the blade but...the book that I scanned it from, is very respectable woodworking book....

I'm too "small" to judge but may be the author knows what he is talking about...maybe, if the cut is non-through, the only "dangerous zone" is when the workpiece comes in contact with the rear teeth and at that time, at least from what I see in the drawing, the workpiece is already out of the stop.

In any case, just to stay out of unknown problems, I would put the stop at a place that when the workpiece comes in contact with the front teeth, it will be well free of the stop.

niki

[Jim Heffner]

Duncan, sounds like what you are describing is a "non thru cut", that is
a cut where the board is NOT separated into two pieces when completed.
You would be safe to make this cut using the miter guage and fence
together as you described because there is nothing to cause a binding
of the wood after the cut has been made. The rip fence is being used as
merely a refrence point to keep the board from shifting left to right and insure that the dado will be in the proper place when the cut has been
completed.The miter guage or crosscut sled is used to move the wood
thru the blade in a safe manner and keep it under control at all times.

[Travis Lavallee]

I keep a 1" wide piece on my fence just for this kind of thing. Just set the fence to 1" more than needed, put the small block down for a reference, secure the piece on the mitre gauge and remove the block. It is really quite quick to do and can help get rid of the uneasy feeling of the cut.

[Mike Cutler]

Duncan

Nissim's picture is fine. It works and the wood will not bind. As the wood is entering the blade, it's leaving the block. At no time is 100% of the board end in contact with the block and the blade. A Flip Stop on miter fence works the same way but the stop block is on the other end of the material, on a long miter gauge fence.

But!!! listen to the voice inside your head. No matter what someone else says, or writes, if you don't feel comfortable, don't do it.

Another method.

Make a sacrificial fence for you miter and put a stop block 21 1/4" from the blade on it. This will give you the registration that you need for an accurate cut

[Stephen Edwards]

Another piece of sound advice that I heard from a friend years ago: " Do not use remaining fingers as push sticks!"

[Mark Engel]

This is one cut where the Unifence really pays off. It only takes a few seconds to pull the fence back to clear the blade, lock it in place and make the cut.

Yup. Ya gotta love the UniFence!