Well, I give up

[Ian Haywood]

I've tried different things and I've had no luck at all getting a straight board out of the equipment I have. I've gotta have a jointer, and I've got no room for a decent free standing one. Bench top is all I'll be able to manage and I don't think I'll be satisfied with the results from those. I'm just putting everything on hold and all the tools away till I can stop making sawdust for nothing.

frustrated,
Ian

[Stephen Edwards]

Hey Ian, What equipment are you working with and what length board are you trying to get a straight edge on?

[Ben Cadotte]

You have no room for a Jointer even on a Mobile stand? I had a Ryobi 6" bench top jointer. And it worked suprisingly well. Could be kept on a shelf when not in use. Had plenty of power and I had no issues with it what so ever. Longer boards it needed clamping down, but I thought it was usefull for what it cost. My first jointer while I was in college working at a lumber yard. I had it probably 4 years and sold it when I moved out of my parents.

[Jim Broestler]

I've got a Shop Fox 6" jointer, and it seems to work pretty well for me. Granted, it's not as nice as a floor model 8" jointer, but until I can have a shop with the floor space to accomodate one, it does the job.

[Anthony Whitesell]

What kind of problems are you having? What are the symptoms?

[Peter Quadarella]

My 2 cents - take a step back and remember why you are woodworking. Unless it is for money, you should be enjoying the woodworking for it's own sake rather than for the finished project. If you absolutely can't fit a jointer, there are other avenues; perhaps hand tools would be enjoyable. Or you can start with projects that don't require very straight boards, like outdoor furniture (adirondack chairs, tables, etc.).

[J. Z. Guest]

Well Ian, how big is your shop? Mine's about 10x10, and I have a floor jointer, benchtop planer, jobsite table saw, benchtop drill press, benchtop router table, workbench, miter saw, and B&D Workmate.

I can't imagine your shop being much smaller than that.

Did you read the reviews on the benchtop jointers on Amazon? There's one that gets pretty good reviews; I almost bought one, except for the weight.

Honestly, you're going to need to have some more patience to be successful.

[Stephen Edwards]

You didn't tell us what equipment that you're using that won't give you a straight board. Is it a table saw? If so, you first need to cut one straight edge on the board that you're working with. You can make a simple jig that holds the board that you're sawing and rides against the fence on your table saw, if indeed that's what you're using, that will give you one straight edge to begin with.

If that's the problem let us know and someone will be glad to explain this jig to you in detail. I'll be glad to photograph one of my jigs so you can see exactly how it works.

Don't give up! It's too much fun working with wood. There's always a solution to a problem and you're at the right place to learn a lot. I know I have!

[Greg Peterson]

Try a Stanley #7 jointer plane. Doesn't make saw dust, produces a rather pleasing sound and doesn't take up much room.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Shoot man....straight boards are for amatuers!!! :D:D:D

Those little benchtop jointers are better than none if you seek perfection in your lumber. I used to have a 6" Grizzly and it wasn't all it should have been so I sold it...built this little table without one.

[Ryan Tremaine]

Not as good as a jointer but it will take up less space. http://www.newwoodworker.com/tsjointjig.html

[tom cooper]

I'm with Greg on the Stanley jointer. I have two, just bought the second one for $10 at a flea market. It took me about 4-5 hours all told to true it and sharpen it but enjoyed the time spent. Try this Ian, it will give you a new appreciation for working wood that you are missing and is needed. The jointer plane may not be an answer for high production cabs or furniture work, but you seem to be a long way from that.

[Ian Haywood]

Thanks for the support and the suggestions... I just needed to vent. For me it's not about the woodworking, it's about the finished product and as you can see from my signature, I'm already handicapped when it comes to that. I go though a lot of hobbies this way. I either have immediate success and get bored with it or no success and get frustrated with it and quit. It sucks to be me sometimes. It's also a losing proposition monetarily. I end up buying pretty decent stuff and then lose my arse when I quit and sell it all for pennies on the dollar so I don't have to look at it anymore. http://arboristsite.com/images/smilies/monkey.gif

Ian

[Don Bullock]

Ian, I hear your frustration. I've been there, but the joy of woodworking and the enjoyment of my finished projects has drawn me back.

Specifically what types of projects are you interested in making? There are plenty of people here who can offer help and suggestions if they know what you are trying to accomplish. One of the good things about woodworking is that there are many ways to accomplish the same end result.

[Brad Noble]

Ian, you and I share something! I started woodworking very late in my life only to help me LEARN patience. I have a nice shop filled with some real nice tools and when I start to build something I always have to tell myself to slow down. I have foound that by working with someone, be it a friend or relative or someone wanting to learn just like you (or in this case - me). Trust me, there are several ways to accomplish your goal so don't give up yet.

You know, central Kentucky isn't that far away from South Central Ohio which is where I'm from. One of my other hobbies is motorcycle riding. Luckily for me two of my best friends that I ride with are also woodworkers. Perhaps we can ride down your way some day. How's that for an unsolicted invitation? :D :D

Brad

[Jason Scott]

Ian, I have felt the same way many times, and the creekers on here have helped like they have here when I posted. Usually the frustration was like you, in having some "less than quality" equipment that caused things not to fit properly etc. I know high quality tools do not make the craftsman, but they do help someone with less experience get better results a little easier than having inaccurate stuff. My advice (and I say to you to remind myself) is to just walk away when you get frustrated, even start getting that way and come back to it in a couple of days, or even weeks, I know that is easier said then done but give it a try. You are like me in that you have many, many hobbies, woodoworking is just 1 for me, and I love it and always want to do it, but being that I am into cars, boats, motorcycles, landscaping/ponds, music/guitars, computers, r/c planes, and more if I bought nothing but the best, every time, all the time, I'd have to be a millionaire. So enjoy woodworking with what you have, maybe go slower (helped me a bunch with a nicer finished project) and when you come across good deals on nice equipment and you have the money to buy it comfortably then go for it, eventually you will build a nice set of stuff up...Generally what is frustrating and what I hear from you, is that when you get into something you feel the pressure to buy a lot of high quality stuff, which is fine, but experience is the most important thing I have found with most hobbies and expecially with fine woodworking...So you can have all the greatest stuff but you have to give yourself enough time to really "learn" how to use the equipment to achieve the results you want and are expecting...Just like other things, practise makes perfect...Hang in there like a booger, you'll be happy you did!

Jason

[Dave Verstraete]

Ian
Take a step back, a deep breath and smell the proverbial roses. Woodworkin'. It doesn't get much better than this

[Billy Chambless]

Try a Stanley #7 jointer plane. Doesn't make saw dust, produces a rather pleasing sound and doesn't take up much room.

You beat me to it!

My jointer fits on a small shelf under my bench when not in use.

[keith ouellette]

Ian;
Don't give up yet. You won't get anywhere that way and I'm sure you don't want to grow old and look back on all the stuff you've never done.

I have a different problem from you. I have no concentration at all and a very bad short term memory. My mind is wandering while I am typing this. It makes planing almost impossible.
If I read that I should cut 17 3/8 by the time I walk ten feet it becomes 13 7/8. Imagine doing that over and over again. Left ends up being right and up ends up down to an insain degree some times. It makes every thing I do very difficult.

You don't have room for the jointer you want and you like things to be perfect. It sounds like something that can easily be over come.

[J. Z. Guest]

I go though a lot of hobbies this way. I either have immediate success and get bored with it or no success and get frustrated with it and quit.

Ian, Jason: I didn't want to admit it, but I am the same way. I do woodworking, RC planes (electric), shooting/reloading, chess, photography/developing, motorcycling/scootering, and there are probably others. I am also a results-oriented person.

Some of these hobbies I ditch and come back to. Those are the ones I know are keepers. Others, I wonder why I picked up in the first place. As I get older & more experienced, I get more patient. Well, not more patient, but I do learn to be less rash. When I have a bad day in the shop and screw something up, I'll take a week off if I need to. When I come back, things aren't so bad. It also helps my patience & concentration to have classical or baroque music playing.

Woodworking is one of the hobbies I came back to. I started in 2000 and did it for a couple years with your same frustration. I made a couple smaller pieces. Some came out nice, others.... passable to the untrained eye. I gave it up for the reason you're stating. Not enough room to get the machines I need to do the type of work that I want to do.

At this point, I should interject that hand tool woodworking is a good solution to the space/price problems, but you have to be willing to work pretty hard and get results a lot slower. Oh, and the learning curve and tool maintenance & sharpening can be a crippler too.

But I didn't want to do that.

Now, I've picked up the hobby again, bought some high-quality but compact tools and put some real thought into my shop layout. It is working.

The rewarding thing about woodworking is that EVERYONE loves the results. It may seem like forever when it takes months to build something. But on the flipside, the end product is around for dozens of years. Time well spent, IMO.

Now, back to the original issue. I've had a couple more ideas which have worked for me when I was in your shoes:

1) Build with plywood. There are a LOT of good things about plywood, and you don't need a jointer or planer. If you do your part, it will look as good as solid wood when you're done, and will be more stable and less likely to warp with humidity changes. I found a book in my local library with nothing by plywood projects. Some of them were quite high-end. Hell, my bench is plywood, 2x4s, and tempered hardboard, and I wouldn't do it differently if I had it to do again.

This book (http://www.amazon.com/Easy-Furniture-Projects-Step-Step/dp/0865736308/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1203866522&sr=1-1) was an excellent starting point for me. You don't even need stationary tools if you have good technique. Things get 100% easier once you get a decent table saw that is aligned.

Get a couple of simpler projects, "Quick Wins" under your belt, and you'll be pumped up to do more and more.

Stick with it. Woodworking is The Un-selfish Hobby.

[tom cooper]

Feeling better Ian? Lot's of moral support here, this is a good site. Why not get back to your original issue - cutting a straight line. Maybe it's not you, maybe it's the wood! If you are working with pine, you may be relieving built in stress brought about by widely varying grain intersecting the same cut line or by nonuniform moisture content throughout your board. If this is the case. your cut wood will curl as it goes through the blade. Make your you have a splitter in place (the splitter wont straighten your cuts, but it will save you from a kickback or burning the edge of the cutoff).

Try this - take a long plywood or MDF scrap which still has a factory edge on it and rip it in half (of course keeping the factory edge on the fence). Did that cut go straight? let us know.

Keep your blades sharp and clean off the pitch frequently. These conditions WILL throw your cuts off.

Are you working with a cheap or thin kerf blade? If so you need a blade stabilizer as you can actually deflect your blade and throw the cut off if you feed the wood too fast. Have you ever seen your blades wobble? This can be improved with the stabilizer or a better blade with a heavier body plate. I use stabilizers no matter what kerf blade I am using that day.

What else........make sure your fence is properly aligned to your blade and blade aligned with the miter slot. These subjects have been discussed plenty here at SMC.

Quit whining, cut some more wood and give us a progress report by the end of the day.

[Ian Haywood]

Build with plywood..

I was sitting here mulling it over and this is what I came up with also.

The project I was frustrated with was a simple box with one side open and vertical hardboard dividers. My wife would be storing her stained glass in it. I was trying to make the 18" wide boards out of 4-5" cedar biscuit joined together and the glue lines were making my head scream. The end product was a trapezoid instead of square and cupping too. I started out with 6-7" boards and soon figured out that I better rip them down and reverse the grain to minimize the cupping. They had so much tension in them that when I went to rip them on the table saw, they pinched the riving knife to the point that I had to insert a wedge in the kerf to hold it apart to finish the cut. When the cut was finished, the edges were naturally bowed... so.. rig up a long (6') fence on the saw, and run the concave side of the board on the fence to take the convex side off then reverse it to take the convex side off. Didn't work. I walked away before things started impacting the far wall of shop.

So... next step is a new crosscut sled with adjustable fence.. true it up with 5 cut method. I checked that the blade was 90deg to table with a mini-setup square (http://www.mannyswoodworkersplace.com/108-1002.html) but I need to figure out a better way of checking it. It's probably off.

Then when that is done, acquire a sheet of 3/4" cabinet plywood and forget the cedar.

Ian

[Lee Koepke]

sounds like bad wood.

not much technique or machinery that can fight Mother Nature. Plywood can be used for that kind of box, unless you are shooting for a specific look.

[Mitchell Andrus]

You can joint with a straight edge and a router. Clamp the edge to the board as a guite and route the edge. Move the guide 1/16" and make a final pass.

You can also make a carrier and run the board through a TS.

Maybe not good enough for edge gluing, but it'll getcha there.

[Peter Quadarella]

I don't understand why you are doing this to yourself. If you don't enjoy the act of woodworking, why not stop doing it? You are not going to save yourself any money outfitting a shop just to build a few items and then move on. Makes no sense to me.

[Ian Haywood]

I never said I made sense. I'd never claim such a ridiculous thing.

Ian

[J. Z. Guest]

I don't understand why you are doing this to yourself. If you don't enjoy the act of woodworking, why not stop doing it? You are not going to save yourself any money outfitting a shop just to build a few items and then move on. Makes no sense to me.


I never said I made sense. I'd never claim such a ridiculous thing.

Well, you actually did, but maybe you didn't mean it?


For me it's not about the woodworking, it's about the finished product and as you can see from my signature, I'm already handicapped when it comes to that.

I think what you meant is that you do like the woodworking, you just don't like a lot of fiddling around trying to get good results. You're definitely a modern woodworker at heart. ;)

[Jason Scott]

sounds like bad wood.

not much technique or machinery that can fight Mother Nature. Plywood can be used for that kind of box, unless you are shooting for a specific look.
+1 again here, I bought some beautiful walnut that I am making a coffee table out of, air dried of couse, and 50% of the time it bows or snaps when cutting because of the tension it is under...I've made due with it, and sometimes if everything just bows slightly all the same it can even add to the appearance in some areas, but just like lee said, you can cut that kind of wood on the best saws out there and it still won't be straight, you will have to straighten it up after the stress is relieved...

[Kevin Godshall]

One of the best quotes regarding woodworking I have ever heard (and I apologize for not being able to name the author) was "Perfection is the enemy of good enough"

When I first began making projects, I spent hours and hours trying to make perfectly straight and perfectly square components and pieces. Sometimes frustrations drove me to abandon the project altogether. Other times, I just put together what I had and thought, well, maybe this proves I can't do it.

After selling all of my "defective" work, I realized that I'm learning more from struggling thru the difficulties than if I had the Golden Saw that made everything perfect. Now, I absolutely love the challenge.

Lastly let me add this: When I worked at a national cabinet manufacturer, the motto for quality was simply this: It's wood. It's a natural, living thing and has it's own characteristics. If someone wants perfect, they should buy plastic. If someone wants natural beauty, we have all they want.

PS Love the quote under Don Bullock's name.