Used table saw restoration... Input welcome

[Kyle Costlow]

I started the cleaning process on my "new" saw.
This is the before shot;
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/nomad85/DSC_2131.jpg
After WD-40 w/ scotch brite, 400/600 grit wet sandpaper, and mineral spirits;
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/nomad85/DSC_2144.jpg
Here's a shot of the motor, the inside looks really dirty, what if anything should I do about it;
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/nomad85/DSC_2139.jpg
Some other pictures(anything I should work on?)
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/nomad85/DSC_2133.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/nomad85/DSC_2132.jpg
You can see how terrible the belt is, I ordered a fancy new one... I just hope it was the right size...
The underside of the table is rusty too, do I need to get it off?
Any other advice for the process would be great!!
On another note, I there is a window right next to where I plan to put most of my stationary tools, is there a way to modify the window to allow me to expel the dust from the dc method I end up picking(could a shop vac with Phil Thein's cyclone seperator do that?)
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/nomad85/DSC_2146.jpg
Thanks,
Kyle

[Lee Koepke]

so far so good.

depending on how the gears / trunnions move, when i restored my, i took EVERYTHING apart. I cleaned, brushed, scraped, and re-greased the gears and trunnions.

I didnt do anything to my motor (except paint the housing) and i didnt have much rust underneath.

My top was every bit as bad as yours and although it took awhile, it was worth it.

[Kyle Costlow]

My main concern is the motor, I'm hesitant to open it up, I really don't want to mess it up..

[Anthony Whitesell]

Boy Kyle, that looks like an old craftsman table saw? Any idea what make and model number is?

[Tom Henderson2]

Hi Kyle-

Nice project -- it should keep you occupied for a while.

You might call a local motor shop to see what they would charge to open up the motor, replace the bearings and clean it up inside. If it is running good that may not be a big expense.

I'm sorta in the same position with a similar mid-sixties vintage C-man saw. Mine is in pretty fair shape (no significant rust) but the top isn't as flat as I had hoped and I definitely need to get the blade better aligned to the miter slots.

If you aren't aware of the "Old Woodworking Machinery" page, take a look at
www.owwm.org (http://www.owwm.org)
and
www.owwm.com (http://www.owwm.com)

Lots of good info and experienced machinery restorers hanging out there.

-Tom H.
Ventura, CA

[Kyle Costlow]

Yeah it is, the model # is 113.298240

[Bartee Lamar]

Kyle,

I have almost the same saw. I also started about where you did. Here is the progression of my saw..

400 grit wet/dry sandpaper with WD40 will polish the top of the saw very nicely.

I replaced the rip fence very early with one I purchased used. I also had to replace the trunion part because the thread were stripped on the raise/lower thing.

I have a lot of money in my old saw, but it performs very well.

(These are links to my web albums..)

The starting point (http://picasaweb.google.com/bartee/MyCraftsmanSaw)

I added an extension table (http://picasaweb.google.com/bartee/ExtensionTable)

I built a Base (http://picasaweb.google.com/bartee/TableSawBaseJan2005)

Then I built an outfeed table (http://picasaweb.google.com/bartee/TableSawOutfeedTable)

[Ron Coleman]

Kyle

How much time and effort you spend on restoring your saw will pay off in the end with pride in doing a good job. Even if you only keep it for a few years and then move to a different saw you'll be able to get your money back.

Even old motors that are beat to a pulp can restored to almost new condition. Here's one I redid a few years ago, it had been half full of water some time before I got it and the balls in the bearings looked like gravel. A factory new motor was a little over $400 because it had an extra long shaft. I spent about $30 on bearings and a new capacitor and a little paint. Fortunately it had no shorts in the windings, that would have been bad news.

The original motor.

http://mrcol.freeyellow.com/wet-sander/rusty-motor.jpg



After a little work.

http://mrcol.freeyellow.com/wet-sander/2502.jpg

[Rob Will]

Nice project Kyle!
If you go to Sears they sell a product called Rust Free. I use that product and a Scothbrite pad on rusty tools. You can put a Scotchbrite pad on a DA sander if you want. (check with the local auto body supply store). Use saftey glasses and good ventilation, the rust free is fairly hot stuff.

I had a Craftsman saw like that for many years. I suspect your's is really not all that old because of the yellow plactic insert in the table. I'm guessing mid 1980's.

One thing I hope you will consider is the addition of a Beisemeyer fence to your saw. You will like it much better than the standard craftsman fence.

Keep up the good work and keep us posted.

Rob

[Kyle Costlow]

Thanks for all the great tips and info, keep it coming I want to know all I can:)

[Kyle Costlow]

http://www.theruststore.com/Boeshield-Kit-P48C13.aspx
Is this a good deal, and do I need the t-9 if I already ordered some paste wax?

[Greg McCallister]

Scott,

I have an older craftsman just like yours but have those dreaded cast extensions were you get your fingers pinched (now gone). Personally I would dump the stamp steel extensions and build some.
Have you checked for flatness on the top?
Reason I ask is if it is not flat you might just take it to a machine shop and have them mill it.
Not sure on the cost but in the long run might save a bit of work. Worth checking into at least.
I rebuilt a meat slicer I got off of craigs list a while ago that was well quite bad - the suggestion to completely disassemble is a real good idea.
I used a soaking rust remover I found at the borg that really removed the rust but did not harm the metal itself. Might not use that on the top but as far as screws and such I would highly recomend it. (I will try to update if I can remember the name of it arggg - old age sure does suck sometimes).
Good luck - keep us posted.
One more thing - I hope you plan on a different fence system - craftsman oem fences really do suck - put a biesemeyer on mine (another craigs list find). Remember always think safety first!

[Kyle Costlow]

The fence is the XR 2424, it seems pretty solid to me.

[Rob Will]

http://www.theruststore.com/Boeshield-Kit-P48C13.aspx
Is this a good deal, and do I need the t-9 if I already ordered some paste wax?

Sears also sells them packaged together in a kit. Might as well get both.

The Boeshield is good but it feels sticky if you use too much.

Often times, I would like to buy only the Rust Free because I don't use that much Boeshield.

Rob

[Rob Will]

The fence is the XR 2424, it seems pretty solid to me.

I'm not sure what that fence is. Can you post a picture?

Rob

[Michael Gibbons]

Kyle, It wouldn't hurt to take the motor to a repair shop and have them go throught it and clean it up and maybe put in new brushes and such. Do it now while you are still working on the rest of the saw then it should be ready by the time your finished with the resto. Woodcraft used to sell a pulley kit for Delta and Craftsman. It came with 2 machined pulleys and a link belt. Check around.

[Joe Branch]

Originally Posted by Kyle Costlow http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=784639#post784639)
The fence is the XR 2424, it seems pretty solid to me.

I used that fence for 4 years with no problems. I even considered keeping it when I sold the saw. If you have the space consider adding to the rails, "53 is easily do able. Keep an eye open, CL, and eBay for the rails. The sane fence and rails are also used on the Rigid saw.

[Pete Bradley]

This motor shouldn't be too bad to work on. It's an induction motor so there are no brushes. The only potentially tricky thing is getting the centrifugal switch mechanism back together. I can't tell from the photo, but if this is one of the GE motors of that vintage, it's a pretty easy one.

Bearings will be some really common 6XXX size. A puller to get them off helps, but you can press new ones on with a piece of pipe with an id just larger than the shaft.

Pete

[Scott Kilroy]

The fence is the XR 2424, it seems pretty solid to me.

I've got the same fence. I got it off ebay for around $80.00. While its not perfect it's very good. One thing I'd recommend is to put a little bit of locktight on the setscrews.

[Kyle Costlow]

I went to sears and got some of the recommended rust free and t-9 stuff, I will try to get more rust off, any tips on using the stuff? anything I shouldn't do? I thought once I cleaned up the internal parts I would spray a liberal coating of t-9 and leave it be to protect it from rust(is that going to mess anything up?)

[Jim Heffner]

Looks as if you are getting it done right so far Kyle. I would not worry too much about the motor at this point, if you have a good air compressor,
use the air to blow out the motor as effectively as you can. I did not see
any oil ports on the motor, but if they are there....lubricate the bearings
with some light weight machine oil and let the motor run for a while, it will
help to free everything up.

As to the top cleaning, a good random orbit sander with scotchbrite pads
and a lot of WD-40 will have that top clean and shining like new in no time! For the underside of the top, bestway to remove that rust is to remove the top from the saw and then clean it. I would be more concerned with the saw trunnion than cleaning the underside of the saw.
Clean and lube every single part of that trunnion, until it works free and easy as if it were a new saw again....it will pay off in the long run.

I have an older contractor saw that I bought a while back, had been used hard, I mean hard, on the jobsite for years and neglected, never taken care of....I brought it back to almost new shape....now it works like a new
saw should and I like the way it works. Jim Heffner

[Richard Dragin]

Pull the motor off and take it to a shop to get a proffesional opinion.

First step in restoring an old saw is take off the blade.

Flip it over and WD-40 the snot out of it. Use a brass brush to clean it up. Take off the extensions and get the rust off between them and the table.

Wax the top with furniture wax (not car wax).

After it is clean you can start to check that everything is squared up but first you have to clean it up.

[Bob Swenson]

Kyle: About the rust on the case, just wire brush the loose rust and paint it
With Por-15. This remarkable paint will rust proof the metal for a lifetime.
Cost a little, but there is nothing like it.

Bob

[Greg Crawford]

Kyle,

The Rust Free will take black oxide off just as it will rust. If you have any parts that have the black oxide coating, try to keep the Rust Free off of them, or they'll turn nice and silver.

The T-9 is great stuff. In the Texas humidity, I've found it to be the only thing that will consistently keep my tools and machines from rusting. I coat almost all my bare metal with it. I also clean and re-coat the most often used surfaces (TS top, jointer bed, etc.) 2-3 times a year. Yes, it feels sticky when you have a thick coat, but buffing it with a dry cloth helps, and if it needs to be slick, like a table saw top, I also wax it. So far, it's worked well for me.

[Kyle Costlow]

Heres the table after WD-40 and the best scrubbing I could do.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/nomad85/DSC_2144.jpg
After Rust Free
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/nomad85/DSC_2147.jpg
(I didnt do the extension wings since I dont plan on using them for very long)
I cleaned the motor as best I could with my air comperssor
before;
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/nomad85/DSC_2139.jpg
after;
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/nomad85/DSC_2148.jpg

[Kyle Costlow]

http://www.amazon.com/Grizzly-G5425-Single-V-Groove-Pulley/dp/B0000DD3FN/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1203895906&sr=1-1

Would these be compatible with my saw? Would they be a good upgrade? Are they hard to install?
Thanks.
Kyle

[Rob Will]

http://www.amazon.com/Grizzly-G5425-Single-V-Groove-Pulley/dp/B0000DD3FN/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1203895906&sr=1-1

Would these be compatible with my saw? Would they be a good upgrade? Are they hard to install?
Thanks.
Kyle

Hey Kyle,
You can also get those machined pulleys at the local bearing shops. Take your old pulleys with you. Regardless of where you get them, they should be fairly straight forward to install. You might need a small gear puller and a brass hammer or a block of wood. NEVER hit the shaft or your new pulley with a steel hammer.

You will want to do everything you can to precisely line the pulleys up. I often use a 3' metal yardstick across the outside face of both puleys. Don't forget to check for twist - (if your motor is leaning left or right).

If your motor gives problems or you don't like the sound of it you can upgrade that saw by installing a name brand 1 hp motor (such as a Baldor etc.). I did that to my Craftsman saw and it was much stronger than before. Depending on what you have, a new 20 amp receptacle on the wall and a short 12 gauge extension cord would be on my checklist as well.

On the Rust Free, you can do it again and rub the surface (while it is wet) with a red (coarse) scuff pad mounted on some sort of sander. I would do one section at a time. When you are done, you can wash off the goop with soap and water but you have to be VERY QUICK. Get it dry and spray some WD40 on it right away. When you have cast iron that clean, it will rust right before your eyes.

Here's one more rust removal tip. Lots of folks around here start with scraping the rust with straight razor blades. You will go through two or three blades but this works better than I ever thought possible. I think your current project is past the razor blade trick but remember it for future reference - we are all convinced you will be restoring OLD IRON very soon;).

Rob

[Rob Will]

Kyle,
Without knowing what you have or have previously done with a table saw, here's a set of DVD's that are pretty good. I bought this set for myself. http://www.mikestools.com/900911K-Jet-SHOP-CLASS-SERIES-SET-OF-5-VIDEO-DVD.aspx

We all remind each-other around here about safety regardless of experience.

I once had a Craftsman saw pick up a small scrap with the back of the blade and fling it at me. It hit me right in the face. Be sure you understand this and how to avoid other forms of kickback. I would recommend you use a thin kerf anti-kickback blade. Perhaps something like this: http://www.freudtools.com/p-50-thin-kerf-combinationbr-nbsp.aspx

You may also want to look into some feather boards and push blocks and sticks.

I also have several Forrest WWII and other industrial blades but I think you will like a modern thin kerf blade better.

Rob

[Kyle Costlow]

http://i24.ebayimg.com/08/i/000/dc/8e/f2a3_1.JPG
I found this motor on ebay. It says its a 3 hp from a 315. 228510, wired for 120... From what I have picked up, that sounds impossible, I thought that over 2 hp required a 220 circuit. aside from that, could I put this on my saw?
I also found this one, its a Dayton 1.5 hp, seems to be missing the capacitor. Is this a better choice, how easy is it to find/install a capacitor(if thats what it need.)
http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/0/0/7/8/1/0/webimg/105948741_tp.jpg

Rob, thanks for all the great info:D

[Jon Lanier]

If you want to save some scrub time in rust, does some paper towels with Coke-Cola. :eek:Yep... over night. Wipe off, then I use Naval Jelly, then some scrub time, but not as much.

[Rob Will]

http://i24.ebayimg.com/08/i/000/dc/8e/f2a3_1.JPG
could I put this on my saw?

It looks like it would work but you may need a dedicated 20 amp 115V circuit to run it. (?) Can you go 230V if you buy it and have problems running on 115V? (do you have a 230V outlet and is the motor dual voltage?) The motor does not care providing you can provide the correct voltage and maintain the required amps.

Rob