TS Miter Guage sloppy?

[David Sallee]

Hey all, well I have a question about my "new" table Saw.. yea it's one of "borg" stores... sorry.. LOL

Anyway, I have noticed that the miter gauge track is pretty sloppy and has no adjustments to tighten it up like the higher dollar tables do...

My question is, how can I tighten this up so there is little to no play? As is, if I put a 10" board on it to cut at 90 deg... there is probably 1/16 to 1/8 play at the beginning of the cut. this would make it pretty hard to get a square cut.

Or....

is it possible or better to make my own miter with wood strips that go into the track snug?

FWIW... the wife has approved getting the Saw Stop TS ;) but it will be a bit to get the funds in place to get it.

Thanks
Dave

[David DeCristoforo]

That much "slop" is going to be hard to fix especially if the slot sides are not parallel as suggested by your statement that this absurd amount of play is "at the beginning of the cut". Re-machining the slots is probably going to cost more than the saw. I realize that this is not a machine presented as being of the best quality but this much play in something as critical as the miter gauge slots would seem to fall into the category of a flaw in "materials and/or workmanship". I would start by asking the BORG to replace the saw with another and see if that one is any better. If you are only dealing with a small difference between the bar and the slot, you can "dimple" the sides of the bar with a punch every few inches along it's length to tighten up the fit.

YM

[Jeffrey Makiel]

A small amount of 'slop' in the slot translates into a lot of movement at the end of the miter gauge (if it has a 24" aux fence attached) or at the front edge of a 10" board about to be crosscut.

I'm assuming that the slot in your tablesaw maintains a uniform width. If not, none of the following suggestions will help.

1. If there is a lot of slop, try epoxing brass strips to the side of your miter guage. These strips are readily available at any decent hobby store. Again, this only works if you have a lot of slop.

2. Minor slop: dimple the sides of the miter guage bar with a metal punch. This will create 'bumps' in the bar. Fine tune with a file.

3. Drill and tap small inset machine screws. These screws usually have a hex head. Apply some teflon tape when installing them for friction from rotating. Thread them into the bar until the gap is taken out.

4. As similar to para 3 above, a member of SMC recommended using threaded ball inserts instead of a machine insert. They are available from McMaster Carr.

5. Purchase an aftermarket miter guage that has provisions in the bar to adjust the width. Some use expanding slots and some use split rings (Incra).

Do a search on this forum. There are probably even more fixes available.

-Jeff :)

[scott spencer]

You might consider building a crosscut sled, and/or an aftermarket miter gauge. The Incra V27 (http://www.epinions.com/review/Incra_V27_Miter_Gauge/content_195368423044)is an excellent basic gauge that retails for ~ $60...it goes on sale < $50.

[Tom Henderson2]

Fellow Creeker Gord Graff recently posted links to a couple videos showing how he made his own miter gage. As part of that, he shows two techniques to "tighten up" a sloppy miter gage.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=76863

One involves just using a center punch to dimple the sides of the miter gage rail. The dimples push out the material around the edges of the dimple, which takes up some slop.

The other involves drilling and tapping holes laterally through the rail, and installing set screws which can then be set to take up the slop.

Or, you can buy a replacement rail with the set screws built in. I know I've seen those in some of the catalogs, but you'll have to verify that they will work with your existing miter gage.

Hope this helps.

-Tom H.

[Ben Cadotte]

I am guessing that you have an aluminium top portable saw. They are notorious for having slop in the miter guages. Build a sled for 90 deg cuts. If you need the miter for angle cuts. Bu a good miter gauge like Incra or several other brands. They have adjustments for the miter slop. And when you do get the Saw Stop, it will work very well on that saw as well. So your not tossing money down the drain.

[David DeCristoforo]

The suggestions to build a "sled" are good. But if the mitre slot is tapered (i.e. it is wider at the front edge of the saw than at the back edge) it will be difficult to get any kind of accuracy no matter what method is used. Please correct me if I am wrong but that is what I assumed the OP was saying. And why I suggested trying another saw. If the slot is 1/16" - 1/8" wider at the front edge than at the back edge, I would not be too happy about accepting this regardless of how inexpensive the saw was.

YM

[Jason Scott]

Even my stock powermatic's gauge has some slop in it, I just don't think the ones that come with the saws are that great, I have heard good things about the incra gauges, and a crosscut sled is an execellent idea...

[Tom Esh]

Just a note if you decide to try dimpling your miter guage. Watch out for the miter slot width not being consistent along the length. (You don't want to end up with a gauge that binds somewhere along the slot.)

[David Sallee]

Thanks for the replies everyone... I will look into the different miter gauge...

I guess I need to clarify something... the slot in the table is the same width and parallel to the blade the full length of the table..... I did check that...

Now, the miter gauge rail fits the same from the front of the saw to the back of the saw... it's just sloppy... (side to side movement is more than I think it should be)

On the 10" board cut... if I mark the board at the beginning of where the cut is to start and line it up with the blade with the rear of the miter gauge tension (pushed) to the left (SAW is turned OFF for these checks) ... then put the tension (pressure) to the right, the line will be aprox 1/8 to 1/16 off from lining up with the blade....

I think I explained that a little better... sorry if I wasn't clear about that.

Dave

[Peter Quinn]

It has been my experience, with everything from 10' professional sliding panel saws to simple miter gauges that the technique of the sawyer has some influence on the quality of the cut reguardless of the equipment. Few woodworking machines are as perfect as we would like to think.

I have seen a very good fellow woodworker produce nearly perfect tennons with a sloppy less than perfect tennoning jig using consistent pressure aplication and smooth controlled strokes past the blade.

Technique will rarely compensate for gross errors in manufacturing but is a factor in every cutting operation.

[Gary Keedwell]

It has been my experience, with everything from 10' professional sliding panel saws to simple miter gauges that the technique of the sawyer has some influence on the quality of the cut reguardless of the equipment. Few woodworking machines are as perfect as we would like to think.

I have seen a very good fellow woodworker produce nearly perfect tennons with a sloppy less than perfect tennoning jig using consistent pressure aplication and smooth controlled strokes past the blade.

Technique will rarely compensate for gross errors in manufacturing but is a factor in every cutting operation.
That is very true. Consistency is very important, too. Many years ago at a woodworking show the inventer of the Dubby( or was it someone else?) was demonstrating his fairly new (at the time) sled and I remember him saying how important it was to keep the pressure either to the left or right every time you send it through the blade.
I still consciously do that even though I installed spring-plungers on all my miter runners.
Gary

[Jim Heffner]

Dave, I read your post about the miter guage and slot on your saw. I think that the problem is your miter guage has some side to side play in
the miter bar, not a problem with the milled miter slots themselves.

You can do as a previous poster suggested as a possible fix for the
problem:
(1) buy an Incra V-27 miter guage about $60.00.
(2) build a good quality crosscut sled with Incra runners , hardwood
or UHMW runners.
(3) last but not least, try dimpling the edges of your present miter guage
with a small center punch and hammer for the fit you want in the
miter slot.
Any of these ideas should cure the sloppy feel to the miter guage for you.
Jim Heffner

[glenn bradley]

I'm going to assume this is a small and possibly bench top saw(?). With that much slop I would pass on the miter gauge and make a few sleds; small medium and large. Be sure to stabilize your saw to accept the weight of the sleds if it is a lightweight machine.

I have resolved this problem on bench tops with metallic HVAC tape placed on the side of the offending miter bar but this generally works well only if the slot is equally over sized as opposed to irregular.

[David Sallee]

Yep, it's a tabletop type from Lowes... this is what the wife bought me as a "just because" gift :rolleyes:

She is ALL for anything I want, as in today, we went to Lowes again to "LOOK" at their pegboard selection so I could plan on someplace to hang my tools instead of them laying everywhere.. :( .... we actually ended up buying everything I needed plus some wood to make some picture frames that she has been wanting....

Last night, she took me to Harbor Freight to "look around" and she insisted on buying some adjustable roller stands and a few hand tools and the peg hook kits they had on sale... LOL She wanted me to get one of their routers but I told her I'd rather get a better quality one :)

After that, we went to the mall and I bought her a new cover for her cell that she has been wanting to get....

I think she has ulterior motives that I'm not aware of yet... hmmm?

Oh, and I told her about my options with this miter slop and she said to order the $60.00 one mentioned ... :D .... which I will probably do plus make some sleds also.

Thanks again for the tips everyone, very much appreciated!

Dave

[Wayne Cannon]

David, the "dimpling" technique mentioned by Jeffrey and Tom works pretty well. It just takes a bit of time to get it just right. Try using a cold chisel to make a horizontal "line" dimple instead of the round dimple of a center punch. It works the same, but increases the width a bit less per hit, and runs a bit more smoothly (since more metal is touching and there is less force per sq in on the dimples, I guess).

Woodhaven and Incra both sell adjustable after-market bars that might work as a replacement for the bar on your miter gauge. Woodhaven's steel bars use fiber/plastic set screws that protrude slightly from the side of the bar, while Incra's aluminum bars have expansion sections that can be adjusted from the top.
Woodhaven: http://woodhaven.com/Category.asp?Id=68
Incra: http://incra.com/product_jfc_miterslider.htm

[David Sallee]

I'm actually going to get the Incra, looks like it would be a good one from all the reviews I've seen and it will work with a better saw when I get one...

Thanks again for all the info.
Dave

[John Gregory]

Are you sure it is your track and not your standard guage? I have owned a Ridgid TS2424 for years and the track is fine. If you have some calipers measure the slot in various areas. Maybe the bar on your miter guage is under size, that would be a much easier fix.

[Gordy Anderson]

Wow... Does your wife have any sisters?
GA


Yep, it's a tabletop type from Lowes... this is what the wife bought me as a "just because" gift :rolleyes:

She is ALL for anything I want, as in today, we went to Lowes again to "LOOK" at their pegboard selection so I could plan on someplace to hang my tools instead of them laying everywhere.. :( .... we actually ended up buying everything I needed plus some wood to make some picture frames that she has been wanting....

Last night, she took me to Harbor Freight to "look around" and she insisted on buying some adjustable roller stands and a few hand tools and the peg hook kits they had on sale... LOL She wanted me to get one of their routers but I told her I'd rather get a better quality one :)

After that, we went to the mall and I bought her a new cover for her cell that she has been wanting to get....

I think she has ulterior motives that I'm not aware of yet... hmmm?

Oh, and I told her about my options with this miter slop and she said to order the $60.00 one mentioned ... :D .... which I will probably do plus make some sleds also.

Thanks again for the tips everyone, very much appreciated!

Dave

[Lee Schierer]

You can buy thin UHMW tape from a number of woodworking outlets. A strip of this tape on one or both sides of your miter gauge bar will totally eliminate the play and provide a frictin free surface that lasts forever. Pricking the side of the bar to raise dimples is at bes a temporary fix as the dimples will wear quickly. The tape chages the thickness of the bar along its entire lenght so the barr will fit tight no matter how far it is in your table.

[John Bouthiette]

You should watch Gord Graff's video. He has a couple of ways to take care of the slop. Using set screws drilled into the side if the miter gauge works really well. I purchased a used sled from fellow creeker Joe Unni and it has soft plastic set screws that worked great for alignment and getting rid of any slop!

[David Sallee]

Are you sure it is your track and not your standard gauge? I have owned a Ridgid TS2424 for years and the track is fine. If you have some calipers measure the slot in various areas. Maybe the bar on your miter gauge is under size, that would be a much easier fix.

Yea, it's the miter bar that I think is undersized. The track in the table is good to go, same the full length of the table... Oh, and the miter is the same on both tracks (same looseness)



Wow... Does your wife have any sisters?
GA

Nope, she's an only child... :p LOL The great thing about our marriage is that we are both on the same page when it comes to our finances and getting things, she asks me if she wants something, I ask her if I want something and we BOTH ask the boss to see if we can get it! (Our BOSS is our BUDGET!) After reading Dave Ramsey's book, we started this budget 14 months ago and have paid off about half our debt following his advise. We should be debt free by the end of 2009. I have our budget in a spreadsheet that I made that I can tell how a purchase today will effect us throughout the next year or more!

We are actually celebrating our 1st 4th anniversary on the 29th, leap year day! The 29th we'll be married for 4 years and together almost 8 yrs and have NEVER had a fight! :eek: .... Because of bad previous marriages, we both decided when we got together that we would agree to disagree and NEVER fight especially about money. So far it has worked perfect!




You can buy thin UHMW tape from a number of woodworking outlets. A strip of this tape on one or both sides of your miter gauge bar will totally eliminate the play and provide a friction free surface that lasts forever. Pricking the side of the bar to raise dimples is at bes a temporary fix as the dimples will wear quickly. The tape changes the thickness of the bar along its entire length so the bar will fit tight no matter how far it is in your table.

I might try that before I get the new miter gauge.

Thanks
Dave

[David Sallee]

You should watch Gord Graff's video.

Is his video here in the forum or on another site? I'd be interested
in seeing it.


Dave

[John Bouthiette]

Here is the link to the thread; 2 videos; part 2 talks about adjusting the miter gauge.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=76863

[David Sallee]

Thanks John!

Dave