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View Full Version : Are we becoming the Borg?



Belinda Barfield
02-23-2008, 12:08 PM
No, not that kind, the Star Trek variety. We don't have all the permanent mechanical enhancements yet, but we do walk around with cell phones and I-pods perpetually attached. Via the Web we have access to global knowledge. Here on the Creek we have the Collective. What one knows, all know. Just think how cut off you feel on the rare occasion that you can't access the site. Resistance is futile and folks are forced to assimilate. For example, my parents (who still have a rotary dial phone) decided they needed a cell phone in case of a travel emergency. So, my daddy goes to the store to buy the phone. He tells the salesperson what he wants and is presented with a dandy little phone with which he can play games, take photos, and how about this - even call someone. Daddy doesn't want this phone, he just wants a plain old phone. No such animal. He tells the salesperson, look, I just want to push some buttons, hear a phone ring, and have someone answer on the other end. The salesperson laughs hysterically, then sells him the fancy phone, which is the base model they carry. So, in essence, he was forced to assimilate. Okay, technically he wasn't forced. No one held a gun to his head and made him buy the phone, but you get my drift.

Just a thought. What do you guys think?

Greg Heppeard
02-23-2008, 12:15 PM
I wish they would get the holodeck and transporter fixed.....

keith ouellette
02-23-2008, 12:23 PM
When someone starts to tell parents they are neglectful because their child is not fitted with a tracking micro chip to find the child in case of emergencies then it will have really begun.

I was talking to some one the other day who told me a car dealer tried to pressure him into a sale with the " for the man who loves his family the on star system is a must in case of emergencies and accidents". They always get you with love.

Belinda Barfield
02-23-2008, 12:28 PM
I wish they would get the holodeck and transporter fixed.....

Yeah, and that cool thing in the wall that you walk up to, ask for a drink, and it materializes!


When someone starts to tell parents they are neglectful because their child is not fitted with a tracking micro chip to find the child in case of emergencies then it will have really begun.

I was talking to some one the other day who told me a car dealer tried to pressure him into a sale with the " for the man who loves his family the on star system is a must in case of emergencies and accidents". They always get you with love.

You're right Keith, the get you with the love/guilt thing. IMHO if someone is doing something "for my own good" I should be suspicious. I've been that way since my first dose of castor oil. :D

David Sallee
02-23-2008, 5:10 PM
Interesting topic... I just seen on a show/news the other night that they now have a head device that you can wear that control games and such with your mind :eek: .... no hands or voice control involved!

Also...

Cameras now have "eye focus" meaning whatever you are looking at, the camera automatically focuses on that point, even if it's not in the center of the viewfinder, if your eye is focused on it, the camera also focuses on it too!

Greg Heppeard
02-23-2008, 5:36 PM
I was actually thinking of using the holodeck so I could use that big 48" belt sander on there today....sanding panels is no fun. And when they get the transporter fixed...no more delivery time away from the shop

Belinda Barfield
02-23-2008, 5:44 PM
David, I'm sure if I knew the things that are out there in development right now I'd be really scared! As I mentioned in a thread the other day I am a TCI (techonology challenged individual). It amazes me how easy it is to convince people that they absolutely, positively have to have the latest gizmo to hit the market. I don't have a "crackberry", and I'm not bashing those who do, but a friend of mine is absolutely obsessed with his Blackberry - to the point of rudness. In the middle of a conversation if he receives a TM he completely ignores what is being said replies to the TM . . . as if the other person can't wait five minutes! Sorry, mini rant there.

I really believe that a lot of devices that "make life easier" are leading us deeper and deeper into individual isolationism. How many people do you see walking down the street in a day that are completely oblivious to the song of a bird, or the smell of a spring rain, or just the beauty of sunshine because they are so tuned in to their phone conversation, or messaging, or music? It seems that simple courtesy is on the deline as well.

Oh, woe is me, here I'm predicting the end of civilization - just like people have been doing for thousands of years. I guess it's not the end, it's just change. Maybe I'm a CCI also (change challenged individual).

Randal Stevenson
02-23-2008, 5:58 PM
No, not that kind, the Star Trek variety. We don't have all the permanent mechanical enhancements yet, but we do walk around with cell phones and I-pods perpetually attached. Via the Web we have access to global knowledge. Here on the Creek we have the Collective. What one knows, all know. Just think how cut off you feel on the rare occasion that you can't access the site. Resistance is futile and folks are forced to assimilate. For example, my parents (who still have a rotary dial phone) decided they needed a cell phone in case of a travel emergency. So, my daddy goes to the store to buy the phone. He tells the salesperson what he wants and is presented with a dandy little phone with which he can play games, take photos, and how about this - even call someone. Daddy doesn't want this phone, he just wants a plain old phone. No such animal. He tells the salesperson, look, I just want to push some buttons, hear a phone ring, and have someone answer on the other end. The salesperson laughs hysterically, then sells him the fancy phone, which is the base model they carry. So, in essence, he was forced to assimilate. Okay, technically he wasn't forced. No one held a gun to his head and made him buy the phone, but you get my drift.

Just a thought. What do you guys think?


He probably should have looked at those prepaid cell phones. I have one that was bought for emergency use only, and my family B&M's because I don't carry/use it for regular stuff. When its time ran out, I didn't recharge it. People have NO idea WTH an emergency is, or how to use their cell phones.
One example, was my parents were on dial up and both had a cell phone. My sister, and her kids were out and about when they had car problems. She couldn't get ahold of them to get help, and her husband was busy at work (LEO, in another jurisdiction at the time). I got the call at work, and called their neighbor, to go over and knock on the door and let them know (turn on your freaking phones, was my words).
Nowdays, with this "collective", while we are here, associating with people with similar interests, at least people in my generation, tend not to even know, or talk to, their neighbors. No one hangs clothes on the line and talks while doing it, we stay inside due to a/c, etc.
I have been fortunate, for someone my age to have been exposed to both. Heck, the last of the party line system was finally disconnected around 84 or 87.
While we may be a collective in technology, we are actually becoming more isolated.

Mike Henderson
02-23-2008, 6:19 PM
Check out the book "Bowling Alone (http://www.amazon.com/Bowling-Alone-Collapse-American-Community/dp/0743203046/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1203808663&sr=8-1)".

Mike

Jason Roehl
02-23-2008, 6:52 PM
Belinda, along your line of thought there, I ponder at times on the idea that we spend an inordinate amount of time and energy, taking on huge amounts of stress, to pay for things that make our life easier and more comfortable. I'm starting to wonder if the log cabin in the woods "off the grid" might actually be an easier way of life. Families working together from dawn to dusk to provide for themselves...

Belinda Barfield
02-23-2008, 7:27 PM
Belinda, along your line of thought there, I ponder at times on the idea that we spend an inordinate amount of time and energy, taking on huge amounts of stress, to pay for things that make our life easier and more comfortable. I'm starting to wonder if the log cabin in the woods "off the grid" might actually be an easier way of life. Families working together from dawn to dusk to provide for themselves...

I'm all for that idea. I don't know that I could go completely "off the grid" but I could definitely simplify my life. I could survive. My concern is that our children, and surely their children could not. Yes, I know there are exceptions, but I believe the majority could not be self sufficient and have absolutely no survival skills. Hopefully the will never need them.

John Shuk
02-23-2008, 8:31 PM
Belinda, along your line of thought there, I ponder at times on the idea that we spend an inordinate amount of time and energy, taking on huge amounts of stress, to pay for things that make our life easier and more comfortable. I'm starting to wonder if the log cabin in the woods "off the grid" might actually be an easier way of life. Families working together from dawn to dusk to provide for themselves...

Jason,
I'm right there with ya buddy.

Lee DeRaud
02-23-2008, 9:26 PM
I've got this mental image of a really odd-looking dude marching in a "Borg Pride" parade, metal sparkling in the sun, chanting, "We're there, we're square, get used to it!" :cool:

Rich Engelhardt
02-24-2008, 8:45 AM
Hello,
To some degree, I have to agree :D
I think we are becoming too techno-pendant and/or so accustomed to having things "done for us" instead of "doing for ourselves".

I was browsing Sears website and looked at the carving machine they have. My first thought was how really neat that thing is. Anyone can make a carving or decoration. Then I thought - yeah but,,where's the skill in that? Selecting a straight board? (heck - even that's been reduced from the "treasure hunt" of finding one at the borg, to going into a "decent" supplier and paying top dollar for a "prime cut".)

I dunno - there's got to be a balance point where the "tools" are still "tools", and the skill is in the user - not built in to the tool itself.

Heck - I'm just as guilty - maybe even more so.
I look at the crown molding in the living room that I was so proud of "doing", and lately I've been wondering exactly what I have to be proud about? My ability to decipher the pictures on the Bench Dog jig that show how and where to make the cuts - or my godlike skill with a caulking gun :D

Belinda Barfield
02-24-2008, 5:50 PM
Hello,
Heck - I'm just as guilty - maybe even more so.
I look at the crown molding in the living room that I was so proud of "doing", and lately I've been wondering exactly what I have to be proud about? My ability to decipher the pictures on the Bench Dog jig that show how and where to make the cuts - or my godlike skill with a caulking gun :D

Rich,
Go with the godlike skill with the caulking gun. In the countertop business I have seen many a day I would love to have someone with even lower level minion-like skill with a caulking gun. Well, actually, it's not the caulking that is so hard apparently but the tooling of the caulk. :) Good Borg are hard to find.

Kyle Kraft
02-24-2008, 6:40 PM
As others have said, I raise the red flag when I hear how the microchips, on star, GPS on your cell phone, et al are all here to protect me.

Wasn't it Ben Franklin who said something like those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither?

Here it is, I found it on the brainyquotes site:

"The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either." Benjamin Franklin.

Lee Koepke
02-24-2008, 6:55 PM
... My concern is that our children, and surely their children could not. Yes, I know there are exceptions, but I believe the majority could not be self sufficient and have absolutely no survival skills. Hopefully the will never need them.
I agree with this. Having a teenager at home, i dont see him or alot of his peers being capable or even having the desire of being self sufficient. The world is over if his Zume isnt charged before heading to school ... but then again, I am sure my parents said the same about my generation :p

Bryan Giles
02-24-2008, 8:47 PM
"The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either." Benjamin Franklin.


Welcome to the new america. Where fear of death allows them to give up their liberties and rights in the name of NATIONAL SECURITY!!!!!


Wasn't Germany called the Motherland or something like that. Now we are the Homeland???? Hmmm. Interesting choice of terms....

Sorry, that was Russia. Hmmm And Stalin kept his people safe eh???

From Wikipedia: In German, homeland is translated as Heimatland, and this was a term used by the Nazis to refer to the more common German term "Vaterland" ("Fatherland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatherland)").

Interesting choice of words again.

Pat Germain
02-24-2008, 9:24 PM
All this technology seems outrageous because it's new to us. Most of us grew up with television. Therefore, most of us don't even think about it.

I recall a short story about this subject. I'm pretty sure it was written by Ray Bradbury many years ago. In the story, everyone ran around wired and in constant communication with everyone else. The main character got sick of it and broke his communication device. Everyone thought he was nuts and he was committed.

I'll have to find that story...

Per Swenson
02-24-2008, 11:03 PM
Hi all,

From the realization that man can use fire,technology of one form or another has been part of human evolution.

Its just not going to stop the march forward....ask the luddites.

With that said, I know fire burns.

So in my day to day living I try not to hurt myself. (notice I don't post so much anymore?) I 'am actually out doing something.

I turn stuff off. Like my phone. The computer. And walk to the grocery store

instead of driving 3 blocks. (country blocks)

So, in short, its not the borgification but the behavior modification that is at issue here.

Per

Jon Lanier
02-25-2008, 12:15 AM
I have a cell phone. A Pay as you go thing. They always have to tell me to put another $20 every three months because I never use it up. My wife will switch phones with me at time because I've got minutes and she don't.

We just gave up cable and bought a few Rabbit ears... see how well that goes for a while... may be through the summer.

And then there is the Internet. I don't and can't give that up. It's to vital for my work. And for my sanity to be able to catch up on new things in my area's of interest... like this place. Could I do with out it? Don't know, I've still got withdraw symptoms from not having cable. :eek:

Belinda Barfield
02-25-2008, 7:45 AM
All this technology seems outrageous because it's new to us. Most of us grew up with television. Therefore, most of us don't even think about it.

I recall a short story about this subject. I'm pretty sure it was written by Ray Bradbury many years ago. In the story, everyone ran around wired and in constant communication with everyone else. The main character got sick of it and broke his communication device. Everyone thought he was nuts and he was committed.

I'll have to find that story...

I'd like to read the story. Everyone already thinks I'm nuts. I carry a cell phone because work requires it; however, I don't answer it after 5:00. I leave it in the car when I eat out. I don't feel obligated to answer it just because it rings. I am an only child and my dad has been having some health problems, so I do answer if my dad calls abd I check for messages before bedtime. Even at home I don't answer the phone unlesss it happens to be someone I want to talk to. Needless to say, my phone doesn't ring very much. I don't text, but I do e-mail - again primarily related to work. I am pretty much addicted to the Creek though!

Belinda Barfield
02-25-2008, 7:46 AM
Per, I like your fire analogy. Good point.

Al Willits
02-25-2008, 10:08 AM
I have these little nanobots running around in my head, not a big problem normally, but on occasion they they start getting to loud and I have to threaten to stab them with a Q tip, that shuts them up quick....

The pre pay phone might have been a better deal for him, we have the same problem, we don't use a cell enough to warrant most of the plans out there.

Wasn't there a book a ways back about technology running rampant or something like that?
Maybe Future Shock, or something like that??

Al......live long and prosper..:)

Bryan Giles
02-25-2008, 11:13 AM
I dumped my cell phones in 06. I have an iphone, but i only use it for the wifi, ipod and pda storage. If someone needs to contact me, I have a landline and email. I am so disconnected and it's great. Far cry from my $700/month cell phone bills when I traveled the country.

Dave Anderson NH
02-25-2008, 12:34 PM
Truly interesting thoughts here folks. I think that what we are all striving for is balance. Elusive as it is in these times of increasing connectivity. I have a cell phone given to me by work and it goes off as soon as I reach home unless I turn it back on to make a free long distance call to use up some of the company's excess minutes. We have a corporate cell plan and consistently underuse our minutes by about 70%. I don't text, don't Blackberry, don't carry a laptop, and absolutely refuse to check my email when on vacation. My time is for me and my family and I guard it jealously. It is important to note that the single thing that is irreplacable is time. Once gone it can never be regained. Money, jobs, personal possessions, etc can all be replaced. Time can not.

Chris Padilla
02-25-2008, 3:33 PM
Computer is OFF every weekend, Saturday through Sunday and I bike to work 28 miles per day round trip, rain (no snow in the Bay Area) or shine. :)

Pat Germain
02-25-2008, 4:26 PM
I'd like to read the story. Everyone already thinks I'm nuts. I carry a cell phone because work requires it; however, I don't answer it after 5:00. I leave it in the car when I eat out. I don't feel obligated to answer it just because it rings. I am an only child and my dad has been having some health problems, so I do answer if my dad calls abd I check for messages before bedtime. Even at home I don't answer the phone unlesss it happens to be someone I want to talk to. Needless to say, my phone doesn't ring very much. I don't text, but I do e-mail - again primarily related to work. I am pretty much addicted to the Creek though!

Actually, I have to correct myself here. It wasn't a short story. It was a novel called "Farenheit 451". Most people think that book is about censorship. According to Bradbury himself, it's actually about how television destroys intellectual thought and dimishes the importance of reading.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farenheit_451

Belinda Barfield
02-25-2008, 5:23 PM
Actually, I have to correct myself here. It wasn't a short story. It was a novel called "Farenheit 451". Most people think that book is about censorship. According to Bradbury himself, it's actually about how television destroys intellectual thought and dimishes the importance of reading.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farenheit_451

Read it in high school. I might have read it once again in my mid 20's also, can't remember that far back most days.:) Have you by chance read William Gibson's "Neuromancer"?

Gary Keedwell
02-25-2008, 5:35 PM
Truly interesting thoughts here folks. I think that what we are all striving for is balance. Elusive as it is in these times of increasing connectivity. I have a cell phone given to me by work and it goes off as soon as I reach home unless I turn it back on to make a free long distance call to use up some of the company's excess minutes. We have a corporate cell plan and consistently underuse our minutes by about 70%. I don't text, don't Blackberry, don't carry a laptop, and absolutely refuse to check my email when on vacation. My time is for me and my family and I guard it jealously. It is important to note that the single thing that is irreplacable is time. Once gone it can never be regained. Money, jobs, personal possessions, etc can all be replaced. Time can not.
I absolutely agree with you, Dave. For many years I worked 15-20 hours a week over-time. About 10 years ago I said the heck with it and refused to work over 40 hours.....I never regretted it and haven't missed the money.
Gary

Lee DeRaud
02-26-2008, 10:04 AM
Wasn't there a book a ways back about technology running rampant or something like that?
Maybe Future Shock, or something like that??For some very low value of "future": 'Future Shock' was written in 1970. The concept of "future shock" is long since dead, smothered in its sleep sometime in the mid-'80s by "culture shock", which is much more powerful.

Lee DeRaud
02-26-2008, 10:14 AM
Actually, I have to correct myself here. It wasn't a short story. It was a novel called "Farenheit 451". Most people think that book is about censorship. According to Bradbury himself, it's actually about how television destroys intellectual thought and dimishes the importance of reading. He claims that now, but it sounds like revisionism to me. The interview where he says that was in 2007, but when the book was written (1953), TV's were in a tiny minority of homes.

Jason Christenson
02-26-2008, 10:29 AM
...I don't have a "crackberry"...

Sigh...I miss my blackberry. Never buy a Motorola Q.

Jason

Rich Engelhardt
02-26-2008, 5:59 PM
Hello,

Have you by chance read William Gibson's "Neuromancer"?
A long time ago - good book.

Another anti-techo book I enjoyed was/is:
This Perfect Day - by Ira Levin (better know for Rosemary's Baby)