Bandsaw help, newbie needs some advice on small problem?

[Jason Scott]

Hey guys,

I bought the used Jet, however it turns out it is not a deluxe, so I paid 475 for a CS model 14" with riser kit, cool blocks and link belt, probably over paid, however the last 25 dollars went to a brand new Timberwolf blade, so really I guess the saw was 450. I thought about walking away, but I am so tired of looking for one I just bought it, oh well.

When I got it home and set up with my new Timberwolf blade, I noticed that when I am cutting something the blade seems to wander just slightly back and forth, I mean just a hair which makes the cuts not as precise as I would like...I do not know anything about bandsaws and am wondering if I have done something wrong? Maybe the blade tension? When the guy that sold it to me put on the blade and cut (and I also cut stuff) I don't remember it wandering at al so I am sure it is something I am not doing right. I don't have any ideas, any help you could give me would be much appreciated. Also any help on how I am suppose to set up the cool blocks? Should they be touching the blade, not touching, what? Thanks,


Jason

[Peter Quinn]

Get The Bandsaw Book by Lonnie Bird immediately...even if you have to skip meals this week...its going to be worth it to you.

[Peter Quinn]

Oh, and no, it should not wander. It would take too many words to fully explain a proper bandsaw setup, but it should cut very precisely.

Also Mark Dugineski has a video on Woodworking Machine Setups that is very boring, fairly old, and worth its weight in gold. I rented it from my public Library but would gladly have bought it otherwise. He SHOWS you exactly how to tune and use a 14" bandsaw in the video.

Good Luck. You'll get it and then you'll love it.

[glenn bradley]

Don't stress Jason. As others have stated, BS setup is not rocket science but it is a little involved to handle here. A good book or some of the online articles at FWW magazine.com should help.

[Jason Scott]

ok, so the saw is not "broken" then, I guess maybe I have set it up incorrectly...Let me clarify "wander" first.

I think what I am seeing is "drift" possibly, but it seems like as I am cutting along a line I have a hard time staying on the line, like the blade pulls off in a direction, maybe I just need practice, what is frustrating is I don't have enough knowledge to know the difference. What would help is if I could use another saw to see if it does the same thing. Maybe Woodcraft would let me make a cut...Oh and lastly, this "wandering" if that is what I am seeing would be normal on an "imporperly" setup saw?

[Peter Quinn]

I assume via earlier post you do not have a fence and are ripping free hand? It does take some pratice cutting a straight line even when the saw is set up well. Plywood tends to wander and jerk because you are both ripping and cross cutting, so if you are praticing on plywood stop and use solid wood. Draw a series of straight lines and pratice cutting to the line, always paying close attention that your fingers do not touch the blade. Its real easy to get BANDSAW BLINDNESS and loose track of your hands.

Dont pannic. A BS has only a few moving parts and very little short of a crack in the casting is difficult to fix. Do not assume any adjustments by the previous owner were done correctly and check everything.

The top wheel should have a tracking adjustment that allows the blade to track in the center of both wheels if the tires are properly crowned. Always perform all adjustments with the power DISCONNECTED! Refer to your owners manual for specifics on tracking adjustment.

Take a good look at the tires then look at the tires on a new bandsaw (the rubber or urathane parts that wrap both wheels). Bandsaw tires are meant to have a pronounced CROWN that peaks at the center. Well crowned clean tires allow the blade to track in the center of both wheels when the tracking adjustment is made properly.

Clean the tires with rubing alcohol and look at the tires. Worn tires will cause the blades to behave strangly and perform poorly. The tires wear out periodically and are replacable. They take a while to wear out but actual time depends on use and tension of the blade. If the saw was run over tensioned for some period it is concievable they are worn flat and need to be recrowned (with a jig and sandpaper you make from designs in FWW) or replaced. Dont do this until you are CERTAIN!

Timberwolf blades are low tension blades and they specifically are tensioned using the Flutter Test. Refer to woodcrafts website, somewhere in their info section they have perfect directions for tensioning a new timberwolf blade. Improper tension (too high or low) can cause irratic blade performance. Excessive tension will stress the blades, bearings and tires needlessly. That gauge on the saw is nearly useless, I largely ignore it.

Proper drive belt tension will make the machine run far more smoothly, so check and maintain your drive belt according to your owners manual specs. A smoother machine is much easier to use.

Timberwolf makes many many types of blades with specific geometry meant to do specific types of cutting. Suffolk Machinery (they have a good website) can help you pick the right blade for the task which will help things go more smoothly. There are many other makers with fine products, some much cheaper than Timberwolf (Olson, lennox, Itura, etc.) so learn about blade geometry and get the correct blades for the work you will be doing.

Blade guide setup is critical to proper performance, and cool blocks are a very good design. You must set the blade guides each time you install a different blade. This is done LAST, after drive belt tension, tracking and blade tension are corrected. I have never set them up so can't give specific advice, check their website and old posts about cool blocks.

Hope this helps, and good luck.

[Jason Scott]

Thanks for the post, I have a little more "testing" info. I think I'm done for the night b/c I'm frustrated and am nervous I got a defective machine even though I"m sure it is fine, I just hate knowing "0" about a machine, I feel so inadequate to help, even give you all answers to help me...With that said here is what I have found out.

First off, I am trying to use the flutter test on my timberwolf, but this doesn't seem to be working...When the guy set it up prior to purchase it didn't require near the tension I put on it to get it to stop fluttering...And the package the timberwolf came in nerver specifies how much blade should be showing etc. when doing this test. Also should the blocks be in place when doing it, b/c I did it both ways, and without them in place I'm not sure the blade would ever stop fluttering????? So I'm confused...What I do know that I have done was trying to perform this test I put a lot of tension on the blade, at least according to the scale which was well passed the "3/4" mark, and now when I bring it back down to "1/4" mark it is too loose to stay on the wheels, does this mean I have "stretched the blade out?????? I'm tired and frustrated with working on it, and it seems like to me the thing "wobbles" a lot, especially on shut down...I am going to take a video to show you all and see if that helps you all help me at all...

I tried to freehand a straight line, and I get real close so I stopped and shut down the machine, which wobbles a lot when it is spooling down (i thought a link belt was suppose to stop this?) so I have to hold the board real tight or it will vibrate away from where I want it, is this normal, do you all have to hold your boards from moving when shutting off the machine? Anyway, I used that technique to set up a make shift fence and then pushed the board through, this process seems dead on accurate, I measured the cut I made on both ends and it was the same measurement. But it seems like when I see the blade wander is when I am free handing and I guess I am moving the board wrong or something. Like in a radius turn it doesn't smoothly follow the curve, it tends to jerk to one side or another depending on how I am pushing the board, maybe this is normal for a beginner to cause this?

Guess my question is (is something wrong with the saw, or is it user input? I guess I'm figuring I couldn't cut a straight line with the fence if the blade was "wandering" like I think it is right? This is probably a big no no, but just to test some things I cut into a piece of wood, and then stopped, then I applied slight side to side pressure and that cut into both sides of the wood some, is that normal? Sorry if these are dumb questions, but I just bought and expensive piece of equipment and I am worried I got screwed. Thanks for any help...

OK, added photos below. One is the straight cut I made with the fence, then the close up of it, it seems that the blade makes ever so slight back and forth marks in it, maybe this is ok? I think I have to see someone else's saw cut to know, I am just too inexperienced, maybe woodcraft will cut something for me.

[Jason Scott]

here is a vid. of the machine spooling down and the vibration I'm talking about, look at the left of the vid, you can see the movement in relation to the wall, is that normal? It doesn't look that much in the video but it is a good vibration in person.

http://www.youtube.com/v/5ko5N8QeAJ4

[Mark Singer]

The saw is a small bandsaw. 14" and some vibration will alwys be there. Try adjusting the blade forard on the tires a bit

[Jason Scott]

Marc,

Thanks for the reply...I noticed while cleaning it up, it is just loosely bolted to the base, don't know why I didn't check that, or at least the guy could have told me, bet that is causing some problems, I'll work on it tomorrow I gues...I am getting better at cutting, the blade just seems to do weird things at times, it may just be my inexperience, hopefully i'll find someone close that come come over and take a look at it...BTW, can anyone tell me if you can "stretch" out a blade from over tensioning? I can't imagine I did that b/c the tensioner was not hard to turn at all, I am using the finger deflection technique right now...

[harry strasil]

don't forget to de-tension the saw blade when you get done using it for the day. otherwise the standing (not running) will have a tendency to leave half the tire on the wheel somewhat flatter, (remember old non radial vehicle tires thumping because of the flat spot left after setting overnight), thus creating blade vibration because of the tensioning differences as the wheels turn.

[Robert Conner]

Good luck with the new saw after you get it sorted out I'm sure it will work fine.
It might be a good idea to start from scratch with setting up the machine. Do you have the owners manual? As Peter Quinn said get a Band Saw book to explain the tuning process, it's not hard but you should go through the steps. The motor and wheels must be in line, the belt must be adjusted properly even if it is a link belt, the guides have to be set. Just a bunch of basic but necessary stuff. Think of it as Bonding with the Machine.
Robert

[Tom Henderson2]

here is a vid. of the machine spooling down and the vibration I'm talking about, look at the left of the vid, you can see the movement in relation to the wall, is that normal? It doesn't look that much in the video but it is a good vibration in person.

http://www.youtube.com/v/5ko5N8QeAJ4

HI Jason-

Time to take a chill pill and cool out for a while... I understand your excitement of a new purchase, and concern/frustration that it doesn't seem to be right.. but this isn't a situation that you are likely to fix with one silver bullet.

As others have said, unplug it, remove the blade, and go through the entire setup procedure as described in the owners manual. Start by making sure the base is on a firm footing, with all leveling feet flat on the ground. Make sure everything is tight. Verify the motor/pulley alignment. check the wheel runnout and wheel/wheel alignment. You get the picture. The "quick fix" usually isn't.

Remove the blade and power up the saw -- is it smooth with just the drive wheel spinning? If so, the issue may be with the top wheel.

Just take it one step at a time. I doubt that the saw is trashed; but it may take some TLC to get into top notch shape. Such is life when buying used machinery, and sometimes with new machines too.

Enjoy the journey. If it takes you a month to get it dialed in, so what? You'll learn a bunch, have fun doing it, and be an expert at maintaining your saw by the time you are done.

-Tom H .
Ventura, CA

Who is in the process of doing the same thing on an old Sears BS

[Jason Scott]

Robert, unfortunately, no I don't have a manual...I'm starting to think that maybe it wasn't worth the 150 or so I saved, I should have bought new possibly, but if I can get it worked out then it should be a good saw I think...Any chance it is the blade???? I was thinking maybe I could take it back to woodcraft and have them put it on their machine, if it does the same thing then it is the blade right?

[Jason Scott]

Tom,

Guess your right, just hard being "new" to a machine all over again. I downloaded the manual and have decided to do everything you all are saying. I'll get it dialed in, then if I still am having trouble then maybe look at the blade. It is not on level ground, I am sure that is not the best, I have adjusted the feet somewhat to compensate but the feet I don't believe have enough "cushion" to aid in a stable platform to run. I need to maybe get a rubber mat for it to sit on or something that might help? I'll report back to you guys, going to work on it today. Thanks,

Jason

[Peter Quinn]

Jason..If you bought a brand new 14" it would come in pieces that you have to assemble, then you would have to check every thing anyway! Check here for blade tensioning instructions for the timberwolf blade...and no, they will not likely take back a blade you have used.

http://www.woodcraft.com/articles.aspx?articleid=391

[Greg Hines, MD]

I would also suggest that you go to Jets website and download an owners manual. You will need it even if you get this problem fixed by advice from here.

Doc

[bob hertle]

Jason,
I looked at your video, and although it's hard to tell, it kind of appeared like the vibration coincided with the sound of the centrifugal switch closing on spindown. If this is true, it may be due to a problem with some single phase motors, discharging the capacitor thru the run winding. This phenomenon can be violent, and is exacerbated by starting, running for a very short time, then shutting down. The charge on the capacitor doesn't get enough time to bleed off. Try this: Start the machine, and let it run for 5 minutes or longer. Then shut down. If the spindown vibration is lessened, or gone, this could be your problem. There is a way to simply, and cheaply fix it with a bleeder resistor.

Don't fret about the saw--as others have said, you'll get there, and like all good things it might take a little work and patience on your part. The books are sound advice.

Bob

[Tom Henderson2]

Hi Jason-

I don't think a rubber mat would be good -- the unit needs to have as rigid as foundation as possible. If you can't adjust the feet to make good solid contact all the way around, then you can always use shims underneath the feet to fix the problem. As you probably know wedge-shaped shims are available pre-fabricated at your local borg.

As a Kiwi friend of mine used to say, "She'll be right, mate."

The books recommended earlier, by Bird and one by Duginski, are excellent.

-Tom H.

[Jason Scott]

thanks guys,

Ok, so here is the update...I forgot to tell you, I didn't have a center throat plate either (I know, for what I paid it should have had all of it lol) and I think that was adding to the problem to, do you think? Anyway I solved the vibration problem for the most part, I found some rubber pads, about the size of a 50 cent piece and put it under all 4 feet, now she is quiet, woohoo, 1 problem solved :p I installed a new throat plate and I also found a burr on the backside of the blade that was rubbing the cool blocks as it ran through, I filed it off and now my cuts are much better with those things in place. I am still unsure about the tension I've got on the blade, depending on if the cool blocks are in place or not, will cause the blade "flutter" at 2 very different tensions, and the timberwolf package doesn't specify if I should have them in place when tensioning. In fact I really think I would have to tension this thing off the scale to get it to stop flutter if the guides where not in place, does anyone know the answer to this???

And just for an fyi, I did a curve cut trying to stay very close to my line, the result is the picture below, I am thinking that means the blade is not "wandering" the way I am thinking it is or how could I cut that close? Also a pic of my new saw, despite it all I am a very proud papa lol...