Oil Water Compatibility.

[david babcock]

Newbie question:

The label for GF wood conditioner states that you should use oil based stains over the oil based pre-treatment and NOT let the project stand overnight before staining.
However, the local WC rep states that he lets the conditioner dry for 24-48 hours before staining.
*****Is this why he also says that I could put a waterbased stain OVER the OIL based wood conditioner (its fully cured? And prevents grain raising).

Thanks everyone!

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hello,
Mixing types is seldom a good idea. (there are exceptions)

The most notable exception would be to use a refined (more commonly known as dewaxed) shellac, drawn out with denatured alcohol.

Zinsser Seal Coat - a 2# cut shellac, reduced with DNA is probably the safest route to a good finish.
I'd recommend cutting the Seal Coat 1 part Seal Coat to 3 parts denatured alcohol and see how it does on a test sample. You can adjust the ratio according to how it appears.

Personally, I use oil based (MinWax) - but that's just me - due to it's longer open time. I'd never - or even suggest - letting an oil based conditioner dry overnight on any of the more commonly used woods, no matter who makes it.

[Steve Schoene]

Interestingly enough, I believe Bob Flexner does recommend letting the conditioner fully cure before applying the stain. I just don't use conditioner on the materials I mostly work with, so can't say from personal experience.

[david babcock]

Interestingly enough, I believe Bob Flexner does recommend letting the conditioner fully cure before applying the stain. I just don't use conditioner on the materials I mostly work with, so can't say from personal experience.


G'mornin Rich/Steve (morning here on the W-coast).
The woodcraft gent told me that I could use an oil based conditioner to prevent grain raise- then use a water based stain.(Sounded like a good idea so I bought the GF pre-stain in oil.) But if doing this, I was supposed to let the oil dry overnight. The label just says "important DO NOT let pre stain dry overnight". Aaaah yes, more confusion. ;)

ok, i think i just read the answer. If dried overnight, the conditioner can be sanded again to open the pores again thus acting like a sanding sealer (whatever that is)

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hello Steve,
My experience with Carver Tripp, Formby and MiWax oil conditioners has been that if they are applied too heavy and/or allowed to dry too long, it makes getting any depth of finish all the harder to do.
It also tends to produce (to my eye) somewhat of an "artificial" look since so much of the pigment stays on the surface.

Having said that - there are some circumstances where I can see allowing a conditioner to fully cure - would produce a uniform substrate.

[david babcock]

Ok, I did tests side by side.
1st piece no pre-stain. UF espresso stain wiped after ten min.

2nd piece wood conditioner placed and wiped then stained over after 30 min. Stain wiped after ten min.

3rd prestain waited 24 hours, lightly sanded with 220 then applied same stain as 1 & 2.

Results:
Immediate piece darkest of all three nicks and lazy sanding barely visable

2nd: somewhat smoother looking, somewhat lighter

3rd: lighest stain- somewhat dull looking (perhaps).

just an FYI for beginners like me.