taking the plunge

[Rich Sprouse]

Well i have been a lurking for a few weeks now and I have been trying to do my research on this forum an others. My intention is to set up a small work shop in my basement mostly for lutherie applications and possibly expand to larger projects later Since Woodcraft is having the 10% sale here is the list I have complied. I would appreciate any comments concerning these pieces based on your experience. My budget is about $2200

Band saw Powermatic 14" Bandsaw
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=5243

Jointer JET 6" Jointer
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=2051

Dust Collection Jet 1-1/2 HP Dust Collector
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=5253

JET Benchtop Sander
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=4943

The sander is not a necessity at this point but it would be useful in thicknessing the tops and backs.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated

thanks

Richard

[Charlie Schultz]

Have you found mimf.com? Great instrument building site.

[Peter Quadarella]

I think you might want a planer instead of (or in addition to) the sander.

[Jim Becker]

Welcome to SMC, Richard!

I'll also agree with Peter that a thickness planer is going to be essential. A jointer will flaten a board and put a straight edge on it perpendicular to the face, but you cannot use it to thickness lumber...including stock you have resawn with the bandsaw. Using the jointer to clean up the opposite face is most often going to give you a board of variable thickness. The planer is needed for that task.

[Rich Sprouse]

Hi Peter that's a great idea, i had not thought about a planer. Do you have any suggestions?


Thanks
Richard

[Rich Sprouse]

Hi Charlie, yes I have looked around on MIMF as well as luthierforum.com, It is amazing how much info is out there.

Richard

[Peter Quadarella]

Yes, here are the standard planer suggestions :)
Ridgid TP1300, Ridgid R4330, Dewalt DW734, Dewalt DW735.

[Matt Schell]

Having a basement shop myself my advice would be to REALLY think through your dust collection. The 1 1/2 horse Jet may be a good start but you may need some type of air cleaner as well. My house is 100+ years old so my basement has low headroom and is a very confined space which really seems to compound the dust issue. Very fine dust is not collected by the dust collector and hangs in the air making for a dusty, messy, unhealthy, uncomfortable situation.

Also have you considered using some money purchasing or building on a workbench that would specifically meet your needs. Having a comfortable efficient space to work at can make a huge difference.

[Wilbur Pan]

Hi Rich,

My long term plan for my basement workshop is also lutherie work. The Woodcraft 10% sales come along on a regular basis, so you don't have to worry that you're missing on a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.

If you're a beginner, I'd hold off on the sander for now until you get your feet wet with basic woodworking skills. For lutherie work, you will need to be comfortable with hand tools, and there are many ways of thicknessing pieces for tops and backs using planes and scrapers without resorting to a sander. Also, for many guitar designs, having a (very) slight curve to the top or back is preferred, in which case a drum sander isn't going help you.

You might want to consider the Jet 16" bandsaw (or even the 18") instead of the Powermatic 14". If you plan on resawing boards to make a top and back set, you'll have to be able to resaw billets. For a dreadnought guitar with a 16" wide body, that means needing to be able to resaw a piece of wood about 9" wide or more (accounting for some waste material). You could add a riser to a 14" bandsaw to give you that capacity, but then you might as well just get a 16" or 18" bandsaw.

Given your original list, your budget, and your goals, I'd get the 3 HP 18" Jet bandsaw ($1360), the dust collector ($525), and the Jet air cleaner ($230), since your shop is going to be in the basement, and you will want to deal with dust effectively. The dust collector won't do it by itself. Total cost is $2115, with the 10% discount that's $1903.50, and you should get $150 in rebates from Jet, which gets you down to $1753.50. With the $446.50 left in your budget, that will cover the Jet 6" jointer. But I think what might be better is to take a course on hand tools and sharpening (hopefully your Woodcraft offers a course like that), and then start buying hand tools, again given your ultimate goal. You can joint and thickness a board with planes.

If you want to save a bit more money, by getting the 1.75 HP Jet 18" bandsaw, you'll save $160 off the list price, and with the Jet 16" bandsaw you'll save $460 off list. By getting a non-canister Jet dust collector, you can save another $100-175 off the list price, but it doesn't look like the rebate applies to those machines. With the money you save, you could get a jointer or planer.

My tool budget was a bit tighter when I started, so I went with used machinery for most of my tools. But the first pieces of machinery I bought was a bandsaw, dust collector, and air cleaner.

[Thom Sturgill]

I tend to agree with Wilbur. In a production shop, that thickness sander would be great, we loved ours. The curvature in most 'flat top' guitar tops and backs comes from the bracing, so the thickness sander will work for you, but whether you will need it is going to depend in part on how you are getting wood.

Of course, for violins and such a thickness sander might not do you much good, but you may want a belt or edge sander and a drum sander.

You might want to look at Stewart McDonalds, and International Luthiers Supply for parts and specialty tools.

[John Browne]

Consider Grizzly--same quality (or better) for less money. For a basement shop, use the savings to upgrade your DC and air filtration. Get a thickness planer, ideally one that's upgradable to a shelix style cutter, since if you want to work with figured wood you'll struggle with a conventional knife planer. Or jump directly into a thicknessing sander, which is what many luthiers use. But they can be spendy.

I agree that a larger BS will be superior for cutting instrument parts. Griz has some exceptional value on 17" saws.

[Rich Sprouse]

Thanks for all the great advice so far. The 14" band saw's resaw capacity has been a concern however the current promotion at WC is a free 6" riser and mobile base for that machine. For the same price I can also get the Rikon 18" machine but size is a consideration my shop is small.

The info on the DC is very helpful, that is an area that I was looking for some suggestions. I looks like I will need the addition air filtration unit. this shop will be very close to a den area and studio.

After all the suggestion I think I will wait on the Drum sander, I agree, I don't think it is a necessity right now.

I'll keep you posted this weekend after I go shopping.

BTW Stew-Mac has gotten plenty of my money here lately

Thanks
Richard

[Stephen Edwards]

I too like Grizzly tools and customer service. You can frequently get a substantial discount on their tools at their ebay store:

http://stores.ebay.com/Grizzly-Industrial

I just bought this jointer from their ebay store:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Grizzly-6-Parallelogram-Jointer-Warranty-NEW-G0604XB_W0QQitemZ290207716100QQihZ019QQcategoryZ67 227QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

The buy it now price is $125.00 less than from their website or catalogue. The reason is that they got a shipment of these jointers in with a "paint blemish". I had to look long and hard to find the blemish! Total price delivered is $544. This jointer has a 9 inch longer bed than the jet, 1/2 more HP motor and built in mobile base. It comes with their standard 1 year warranty.

It took 3-4 hours to assemble it and was dead on the money right out of the box.

I agree with John Browne. At the very least, consider Grizzly tools. Compare all the specs on this one that I've mentioned to the Jet that you're considering.

Welcome to SMC! I'm a recent newbie here myself and have learned a lot and have been treated well.

Kind Regards,

[David Parker]

Hi Rich,

I'm just starting to put together a 12 x 15 foot "micro shop" in my basement. After looking closely at the nice Powermatic bandsaw, I decided I'll go with the Rikon 14 inch ($675 with the 10% off plus add a mobile base for a total of $725). The Rikon 18 inch has nearly the same footprint as the 14 inch. If it wasn't so heavy, I'd probably go with the 18 inch, but I'd never get it down my basement steps.

For dust collection, the current Wood Magazine review is well done. It ranks the Delta 50-760 ($329) and the Grizzly G1029Z ($334) on top with the Penn State DC2000B a close second. I'm planning on getting the Delta and adding a trash can with Thien-like cyclone lid just in front of the DC.

I plan to build a router table and hope to add a planer in the future. I don't think I'll have room for a jointer, since I have a large lathe (Jet 1642EVS-2) that's hogging a lot of space. Oh, I also have a bench top drill press, oscillating spindle sander, scroll saw, slow speed grinder, and WorkSharp 3000 that are competing for my precious shop real estate. Now to make all this stuff fit efficiently :).

Good luck with your shop.

Dave

[Dave MacArthur]

Welcome!
I'll just second that footprint size for an 18" or 17" bandsaw is the same as a 14", and that the 17" Grizzly is currently a great deal.

One other suggestion--if you'll click "Quick Links" up above, then "edit profile" then put your location in at the bottom of the page, we can tell where you are. This is very useful info when asking for advice! Since dust collection is critical for you (basement shop), knowing if you can exhaust outside (airco or heat issues, or none such as Phoenix or SoCal) would help us give you advice on your options /budget. I concur that dust collection will be important if working in basement, but maybe not so much if you have windows there, etc..