Interesting project, nice wood, bad design

[Jeff Skory]

Well, here's what I cobbled together over the last few weeks. (I'm work in lots of small increments :D )

I based this table loosely on one done by Scott Coffelt.

I learned a lot doing it because I got to try a bunch of things that I had only read about. In case you haven't figured it out I'm quite new at this hobby but having a fantastic time.

Things I got to do:
1) Glued board together to make wider board for the tabletop and stem.
2) resawed the zebrawood on the tablesaw.
(Now that I have a bandsaw I won't do that again.)
3) Cut some mortise and tenons.
4) Played with the Velvit Oil I bought to finish it.

Things I learned:
1) Not all seat of the pants designs end up looking good, or working well for their intended purposes.
2) There's a lot to this finishing business.
3) Mortise and tenons look much easier in a book.
4) I love the way Zebra Wood looks!

Here's some pics of the table I made. I will tell you what I like and don't like in a second.

[Jeff Skory]

What I like:

I love the Zebra Wood! Would like to try making some other projects with it.

The curly maple is ok, but I'm not sure it is my favorite.


What I don't like:

The table is a little too high.

I don't like the design of the tabletop. It doesn't really fit with the base. Not sure if the base and stem work together the tabletop definitely doesn't do anything for me.

It started out with me gluing up some strips of curly maple that I had cut up and then I drew a design on it and cut it out. Then later on I choose the zebra wood for the stem and then the white ash for the base.


Any suggestions on how I could have made this better are more than welcome. I'm not even totally against the idea of tearing part of it apart and rebuilding some of it. Although maybe I would be better off spending my time on something new.

[Mark Stutz]

Jeff,
I too am a relative newcomer to this craft, and also struggle with design. I think you are on the right track though...come up with a design, execute said design, stand back and analyze the work, and learn something from it.
Now, just my .02! The maple might look better with the boards oriented 90 degrees to what you have them. I like using contrasting woods in some projects, but three in a small project may be too busy. These are just some thoughts, though the bottom line is how it works for you. If we all had the same tastes, all ice cream would be vanilla and all tables look the same!

Mark

[Bud Duffy]

I do like the design but like Mark says a little to busywith the difffrent woods.

[Mark Singer]

Jeff,
Very nice! I think that it is great that you are attempting new designs rather than following patterns in books. Your designs will become more refined over time , but this is a great start. As you stated, you are learning all of the skills that are common to furniture making. It is a great way to do it. I used to take scrap wood just to learn to cut joints...this is much better and you have something nice to show for it!

[Pat Salter]

It's nothing six coats of paint won't help. Just kidding :D

I'm curious how it holds things. with the front "sticking" out like it does... how much weight can you put on it? Before it starts to become unbalanced? or does it? it's an interesting design. The top might look better just round, not sure.

You may be new at this but you at least have to guts to try something like that and for that I applaud you. The woods look beautiful individually but the together...the jury is still out :rolleyes: The finish looks good in the photos, what kind were you using and what problems did you have?

Just my pennys.

[Mark Singer]

Jeff,
I had a thought...if you study some of the older modern classics...it may give you some inspiration...a lot of the great furniture has already been designed...and is worth studing and maybe tweeking to something new that works. The website for design within reach has many such items....let me know if you find something

http://www.dwr.com/

[Jim Becker]

I do like the design but like Mark says a little to busywith the difffrent woods.

I agree with Bud...the one thing that stood out to me is the top and bottom being uncoordinated. That nice figured stock on the top (and the zebrawood) is outstanding, but the base with the flat-sawn grain doesn't work for me. I do like the design, however. It's sharp!

[Chris Padilla]

Way to go, Jeff! How do you like VO?

Most what everyone else said: The top and bottom should match or at least have the same pattern...different size is cool. Orient the curly maple grain to match the ash grain (diff woods doesn't bother me).

The shape of the Zebra wood support is cool...I like it. Since the bottom is thicker than the top, the support carries that idea since it is wider at the bottom than at the top but the veritcal heaviness of the zebra disturbs my eye in trying to follow the support. I like the support shape, just not how you oriented it on the zebrawood.

As far as height, that is very subjective...I'll take your word on it! :)

[Jack Diemer]

The good news here is, you can blame Scott Coffelt for the bad design.

I think the table looks great, if your into the those contemporary designs.

[Ed Falis]

Jeff,

I think you deserve praise for committing nice wood like that to an original idea, not really knowing how it would turn out. Good lessons learned.

- Ed

[Scott Coffelt]

First off, its not my design :D Jack; second for someone trying something new I think it is perfect. Dammit, you went out and tried something new... good for you.

Give figured Maple some tries, but be careful on the wood choice you use with it. I might have tended to make the base the same design as the top and used the same wood, but hey its still got style. I am a little concerned that the top could be, well top heavy but if there is enough weight in the bottom it won't (could even route out and screw in a steel plate for more butt weight.

Finish looks good.

You could round the top. It takes practice, in the end if you get something that you like... it really doesn't matter what we think. Heck, most of us can't do much better anyways, right? Keep at it.

[Jeff Skory]

I'm curious how it holds things. with the front "sticking" out like it does... how much weight can you put on it? Before it starts to become unbalanced? or does it? it's an interesting design. The top might look better just round, not sure.


The bottom is actually quite heavy. The base is about 2.25" thick, so it's not really tippy at all. I think you might be right about a round top.

[Jeff Skory]

http://www.dwr.com/

Mark,

Thanks for the encouraging words. This website looks like it might contain some good ideas. I have been trying to find websites or books with furniture that is a bit outside of the norm. I seem to be drawn to that type of thing. Tough to figure out exactly what search keywords will find this type of site.

[Jeff Skory]

I agree with Bud...the one thing that stood out to me is the top and bottom being uncoordinated. That nice figured stock on the top (and the zebrawood) is outstanding, but the base with the flat-sawn grain doesn't work for me. I do like the design, however. It's sharp!

I agree with all of you. I didn't feel like shelling out the bucks for 2" curly maple for a base just to match the top on a learning project. :D

Perhaps just plain maple would have worked better since there would not be much grain. I still don't like the shape of the top though.

Next time... :)

[Jeff Skory]

Way to go, Jeff! How do you like VO?


Not sure....After four coats (3 of them sanded by hand with 400 paper) it still didn't have the sheen I thought it would have. Perhaps I'm not doing something correctly.

I have been using paper towel to apply it, get it good and soaked, and then start working it in with the sandpaper. I rewet if the paper starts drying it out. I sand for about 5-10 minutes and then I wipe the oil off with a dry paper towel. Then I let it sit for 24-48 hours and repeat.

After the fourth coat I tried buffing it (first by hand with a rag) and then with an ROS with the white 3M pad (ala Keith's suggestion). Didn't do a thing to it.

So I ended up putting some paste wax on it and then using the ROS. It seems that the paste wax leaves a bit of a film on there than can get smudgy.

[Jeff Skory]

Most what everyone else said: The top and bottom should match or at least have the same pattern...different size is cool. Orient the curly maple grain to match the ash grain (diff woods doesn't bother me).

The shape of the Zebra wood support is cool...I like it. Since the bottom is thicker than the top, the support carries that idea since it is wider at the bottom than at the top but the veritcal heaviness of the zebra disturbs my eye in trying to follow the support. I like the support shape, just not how you oriented it on the zebrawood.

As far as height, that is very subjective...I'll take your word on it! :)

Are you thinking that the grain of the Zebra wood might have looked better if it was running horizontally? I hadn't even thought about that.

[Jeff Skory]

I am a little concerned that the top could be, well top heavy but if there is enough weight in the bottom it won't.
You could round the top. It takes practice, in the end if you get something that you like... it really doesn't matter what we think. Heck, most of us can't do much better anyways, right? Keep at it.

Scott, thanks for the kind words. And yes it is your fault for getting me excited enough about a simple little design to go ahead and try something out of the ordinary. Thank you. ;)

When you way I could round the top are you referring to the whole table-top or the edge of the tabletop?

As mentioned in a previous reply the table is not top heavy at all.

[Chris Padilla]

Are you thinking that the grain of the Zebra wood might have looked better if it was running horizontally? I hadn't even thought about that.

No, not horizontally but skewed a bit more (I don't know 15 degrees??) from where you had it.

However, horizontal might be interesting but a lot weaker from a structural point of view.

[Chris Padilla]

Not sure....After four coats (3 of them sanded by hand with 400 paper) it still didn't have the sheen I thought it would have. Perhaps I'm not doing something correctly.

I have been using paper towel to apply it, get it good and soaked, and then start working it in with the sandpaper. I rewet if the paper starts drying it out. I sand for about 5-10 minutes and then I wipe the oil off with a dry paper towel. Then I let it sit for 24-48 hours and repeat.

After the fourth coat I tried buffing it (first by hand with a rag) and then with an ROS with the white 3M pad (ala Keith's suggestion). Didn't do a thing to it.

So I ended up putting some paste wax on it and then using the ROS. It seems that the paste wax leaves a bit of a film on there than can get smudgy.

I think with each coat of VO, you need to go to a finer and finer grit as you wet-sand. Maintaining the same grit, you aren't sanding out the previous grit's marks.

Say you "dry" sand to 320. Next, wet-sand with 400, wipe, let it cure. Then 600, then 800, etc. Maybe I'll go crazy and try a scrap piece of maple all the way to 1200 since I have that available to me.

[Jeff Skory]

Chris,

I think I'll give that a try. I am planning on buying a cheap ROS this weekend for the express purpose of using it for VO or other oils.

[Chris Padilla]

I think you'll want at least a variable speed one (run it at the lowest setting) and those tend to not be too cheap. Palm sanders are pretty cheap and are designed for finish sanding.

They sell "router speed controls" that basically limit the current to the router via a knob you turn. I've heard that can damage routers not designed for variable speed. I dunno if that is the case for ROS but if not, that might be a handy thing to have. I don't recall the price of the speed control box...maybe $30 so dunno if you come out ahead in the end.

A cheap variable speed ROS would probably be your best bet.

[Jeff Skory]

So you think a cheap variable speed ROS would be better than a palm sander?

[Dave Hammelef]

Wow love the zebra wood look. I think the grain in the base and the top should go in the same direction, and the top and bottom should have similiar shape. Another idea would be to have the top and bottom directly above each other with the zebra wood just like it is kind of a "Z" shape.

But really a very interesting table. Well done.

[Jeff Skory]

Dave,

Thanks for your input. I think you and some of the others are right about the grain direction. That thought had not entered my mind. I had cut the long board of curly maple I had into several pieces, glued them together, and then cut out a shape. The rest of the table developed from there.

Lots of good ideas from you guys. I seem to learn a few more things every time I log into the Creek. :)

[Chris Padilla]

So you think a cheap variable speed ROS would be better than a palm sander?

Jeff,

I'm not sure to be honest. I have my pricey variable speed Festool 150/5 ROS but the issue with that is the dust extraction that it comes with. I don't think it can be simply turned off. After all, I don't want to suck up VO through the air channels of the Festool ROS (but the VO might be too heavy for this...not sure). However, I have all this nice Festool sandpaper...all the way to 1200! But, I think Festool *might* sell a different pad that I can use that doesn't have the holes for dust extraction...I'm not sure. Perhaps I can buy a pad and modify it. I don't know. One thing is for sure, the VO will gunk up the ROS pad over time...no doubt about that. I would, for sure, need a dedicated wet-sanding pad for my ROS.

As to the palm sander, I have one...a Makita that I picked up for probaby under $50. I don't want to buy MORE sandpaper for that since I can't easily use the ROS sandpaper on it (I could I guess but it seems silly).

My point...I think I will try to stick with the ROS...I think it will just work better overall but will take some effort to perfect.

[Thomas Walker]

Congratulations on creating an original design, and especially on all the new techniques you learned.

From everything I've read, professional woodworkers develop their ideas by working with prototypes. First on paper or with cardboard, then with cheap wood, and finally with good wood once they have all the kinks worked out.

It might take longer, but yields a much better result. After all, almost everything can be done better on the second attempt.

[Jeff Skory]

Congratulations on creating an original design, and especially on all the new techniques you learned.

From everything I've read, professional woodworkers develop their ideas by working with prototypes. First on paper or with cardboard, then with cheap wood, and finally with good wood once they have all the kinks worked out.

It might take longer, but yields a much better result. After all, almost everything can be done better on the second attempt.


Thomas,

You're absolutely right. I've often thought about that and then wondered, "What the heck to do I with all these prototypes?" :D

Perhaps find a neighbor with a wood burning stove?