Which used saw is the better deal?

[Kyle Costlow]

I followed some advice and looked at craigslist in my surrounding area, I found a few saws that might be good, what do you think?

1. Old craftsman,with a xr-2424 fence-100$(I mentioned this one in my other thread.)http://images.craigslist.org/0101050116110103062008020418f3c568d45ff0bea5009dcc .jpg
2. Ryobi BT 3000- 200$http://images.craigslist.org/01020301160801030720080217e72ecb3b786784b9ff00b126 .jpg
3. Jet 708315LSB-150$ no picture
4. Delta 36-679 with mobile base and dado insert 300$Heres a link to a review of the delta,
http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/resource/Article.cfm?ArticleID=5
does anyone have any experience with it? looks like a good deal to me, the guy said he got it new 2 years ago and hasn't really used it since, its been well maintained though.

[Kyle Costlow]

I think I narrowed it down to the craftsman or the delta, anyone know about the delta?

[Eric Haycraft]

If the delta has a biesemier (sic) fence or a unifence, that is probably the best saw on your list and the price seems good. If a lesser quality fence, it is still a good saw, but 300 might be high at that point (either one of those fences cost 300 bucks and both are wonderful fences, so keep that in mind). Second behind that would be the cman.

[Lee Schierer]

My choice would be for the one with a cast iron table. Aluminum ones tend not to be flat! The better fence would be high on the list. A fence that doesn't lock up consistently will drive you insane (DAMHIKT) Look at the size of the cross cut guide slot. If it is 3/4 x 3/8-1/2" deep then you will be able to purchase standard accessories to fit it. Some lower cost saws had odd sized slots that never matched other products. Next consider the HP of each and get the most Hp. Remember, surface rust is just that and it can easily be cleaned up. Deep pits are a problem and will never go away. Run the saws all the way through all adjustments. Full tilt and full raise at the same time. Run the saw, strange noises or vibration should be investigated.

Don't let a bunch of cheap blades talk you into buying the saw. You'll want to buy some good carbide tipped blades once you get he saw home.

[Kyle Costlow]

I'm going to check out the craftsman this evening, I'm going to bring a bit of plywood to see how it cuts. what should I check/what is the most important?

[Bill Huber]

On the Craftsman, check that the gears are all good, the ones that tilt the blade are the first to go.
Check the model number and see if you can get parts for the saw.
Check also that the arbor bearing are good and there is no up and down play in them.

If there are problems with the saw and you can still get parts offer the owner $50 for it.

[Mike Goetzke]

I had a Ryobi BT3K of some type for almost 20 years. It's a great saw - the one in the picture is a very old model BT3000. It had slide bearing problems (the ones on the blade raising mechanism. Plus being old it probably needs new belts - very difficult to replace. BTY - the last BT3100 I bought was around $180 NIB. I currently have a Unisaw that I treated myself to a couple of years ago but the Ryobi is a fine saw for an occasional woodworker.

Mike

[Greg Hines, MD]

I'm going to check out the craftsman this evening, I'm going to bring a bit of plywood to see how it cuts. what should I check/what is the most important?


You want to check that it cuts square and true. Any accessories, such as the miter gauge and fence, need to be properly adjusted. A properly cared for saw will behave like one. Run the blade all the way up and down, and bevel to 45 degrees. You should not have any trouble doing that. The fence should lock down and not move with normal use, so try to move it intentionally. If you can, it may need replacement. Bring a flashlight to check the undercarriage too. I would also bring a small square of some kind, to check the faces of the fence to make sure they are square to the table, as that is one thing that you probably cannot adjust. Beyond that, you might want to bring a thick piece of hardwood, such as 2" oak or ash, to check the overall power of the motor. It should not get hung up cutting something thick.

Doc

[Tom Henderson2]

I'm going to check out the craftsman this evening, I'm going to bring a bit of plywood to see how it cuts. what should I check/what is the most important?

People have written books on that subject. Here's a quick rundown...

Unplug the saw and remove the blade. Verify that the arbor wrench is being sold with the saw. Make sure the large-diameter arbor washer hasn't been lost. Look at the arbor surfaces -- are they beat up? Smooth is good, beat up is bad.

Take the belt off the motor, and turn the saw arbor by hand. Listen/feel for bearing problems -- smooth is good; gritty/raspy is bad.

Put your hand on the arbor where the blade attaches. Push/pull up and down, as well as laterally. It should be tight in both directions. A very little bit of end-play may be acceptable in a contractor saw, but not much.

Do the same with the motor -- turn it by hand, then push/pull. Smooth and tight is good. Gritty/raspy is bad.

Look at the mechanism underneath the saw (looking in from the back is usually easiest) and see if it is badly corroded or rusted. Look at the bolts that hold the trunnion assembly to the saw top -- are they rounded over, or in good shape?

Reinstall the blade. Spin it by hand and listen/watch. It should be smooth, quiet and true. Gritty/raspy is bad. Significant blade wobble might be a saw arbor problem... or a blade problem.

Reinstall the drive belt. Check to see if the pulleys are in good alignment; if not, it may indicate the saw hasn't been well maintained.

Adjust the blade elevation wheel through the entire range of motion. If it gets hard to turn, or sounds bad, look to see if you can figure out why. Don't expect perfection at $100 but if something is bent and can't function properly, you need to know it.

Do the same thing with the blade tilt. If it binds up look to see why. If there is excessive looseness, look to see why.

Look over the cast-iron portion of the top. Does it appear to be in reasonably good shape? Some light rust or discoloration is not unexpected, but big pits are not so good. If you have a good straight-edge, bring it and lay it over the top in different spots and look for high spots/low spots/warping, etc. Don't expect perfection for $100, but if the top is not true your cuts won't be either.

Look the miter gage over for rust/abuse. If it has a hardwood or other auxilary fence, that is a plus if in good shape. Install it in the grooves and see if it has any slop in the grooves. A tiny bit is expected. But not a lot. Try it in both grooves.

Give the fence a close look. Any blade marks in the face? Does it slide smoothly from one side to the other? Does the locking mechanism seem to be working properly?

Double-check that the blade arbor nut is tight and the drive belt is properly installed and that the miter gage and fence are out of the way. Plug the saw in and turn it on and listen/watch as it comes up to speed. Then turn it off and listen/watch. Excessive wobble is bad -- if it looks bad, try another blade if possible.

Cut some wood -- your plywood, or perhaps even better something a bit thicker. Does it seem to cut smoothly? Most alignment issues can be cured with some effort, but gross misalignment will make you wonder how well it has been maintained.

The above can be done in 10 minutes or so and will give you a good picture of the saw. If you can buy or borrow a decent blade bring it along and use it for the tests.

Don't expect perfection for $100. But if the saw is junk, pass and look elsewhere. OTOH, if it seems like it is in reasonable condition, jump on the deal.

Happy hunting.

-Tom H.

[Lee Schierer]

You want to check that it cuts square and true.

Don't get too hung up on how true it cuts. Alignment takes about 1/2-1 hour and most people that are not members here assumed they were aligned out of the box. They also assumed that fences were parallel and miter gauges were square. Fences can be adjusted. Pullies and belts are cheap and easy to replace, you'll want to upgrade to a link belt and machined pullies anyway. Replacing running gear (motors & bearings) is a lot more costly.

[Kyle Costlow]

I went ahead and bought the craftsman saw, the delta was being sold without the fence... The only real problem with the craftsman was the knobs that turn the gears to lower/miter the blade where broken, but the gears were fine, the motor worked, there was a lot of vibration, but the pulley looked horrible and I think that and the uneven casters where the main cause, a new pulley and removing the casters should make it much better. It ripped my plywood fine and cut a 2x4 with no issue. The fence is really solid, overall I think its a nice starter saw. Anyone have any recommendations for a tune up once I get the rust taken care of? Thanks for all the help:)

[Andy Haney]

Kyle,

Here's a coupla links that may be helpful to tune your saw.

Andy


http://www.woodmagazine.com/wood/story.jhtml?storyid=/templatedata/wood/story/data/1163794229859.xml


http://store.thesawshop.com/catalogue/docs/tune-up.pdf

[scott spencer]

...Anyone have any recommendations for a tune up once I get the rust taken care of? Thanks for all the help:)

I'd replace the belt with a link belt.

[Bill Huber]

I went ahead and bought the craftsman saw, the delta was being sold without the fence... The only real problem with the craftsman was the knobs that turn the gears to lower/miter the blade where broken, but the gears were fine, the motor worked, there was a lot of vibration, but the pulley looked horrible and I think that and the uneven casters where the main cause, a new pulley and removing the casters should make it much better. It ripped my plywood fine and cut a 2x4 with no issue. The fence is really solid, overall I think its a nice starter saw. Anyone have any recommendations for a tune up once I get the rust taken care of? Thanks for all the help:)

Excellent !!!!
Clean it up, tune it up and then go make something...
You can spend thousands on a new table saw but you still won't be able to make anything more then with the saw you just bought.

Good luck.