New member looking for table saw advice...

[Kyle Costlow]

Hi, I'm a college student in Indiana, I've been piecing together a work shop over the past year, and now I need to get a table saw, my budget is limited to about 500$ or less.
I've been reading for months about various saws, and I haven't really made any progress. I liked what I was reading about the Ryobi 3100, but I cant find one, and I really like the grizzly saws, but the cost+shipping is more than I can justify. Now I am looking into the Ridgid TS3650, its still a bit out of my price range, but it seems like a great saw for a good price. I'm just wondering if I really need it, I was looking through the local classifieds for a used saw and I found an old craftsman 113.298240 for 100$, it has a XR-2424 fence and I am told it is accurate and the motor is in good shape. Here are some pictures of it. (these pictures belong to the author of post 562690788 on craigslist)
http://images.craigslist.org/0101050116110103062008020418f3c568d45ff0bea5009dcc .jpghttp://images.craigslist.org/01020001030101161420080204aa2e1586bcb43d5799001876 .jpghttp://images.craigslist.org/01020901160401031020080204cb6a7265df714dae52001557 .jpg
Will this be a good choice or is it overpriced/no good? Looks a bit rusty to me, is that a big concern or can it be fixed?
I build cages for my reptiles(my main hobby), and I like them to look fairly professional, in the past I've borrowed a friends shop (he's a carpenter, and working with him is what got me interested in woodworking) But I want to be able to build anytime I want without imposing on him. The main thing I need is the ability to handle 8x4 sheets of plywood, I use my router for dadoes, and my miter saw for crosscuts. I also need to be able to cut thin strips for trim and finish work, I cant get anything close to accurate with my circular saw. I'm hoping someone can help me find the right saw at the right price(a lot to ask I know, but I need help...) Most projects I would work on would use plywood, I want to build things like bookcases, cabinets, and cages. I don't have any immediate plans to build furniture.

These are some of my projects, I'm looking for a saw that will let me build more like these. Each cage is its own unit, they can be stacked or stand alone.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/nomad85/IMG_1437.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/nomad85/IMG_1670.jpg

[Jason Scott]

IMO, and my opinion only do not get the Craftsman saw period. I used a saw like that for 10 years and hated it every minute. Nothing will be square if you do not do MAJOR retrofitting of a good fence and miter system. I know people have spent a lot of money making a bad saw decent, but why do that???? With 500 dollars you are close to getting a Powermatic 64A contractors saw slightly used, and IMO is the best contractors style made. It is what I own and love it. Craftsman used to be good stuff a long long time ago, in a galaxy far far away (I don't mean to offend anyone, as I still have a few craftsman tools) but today they are junk IMO. Maybe some of the higher end professional series stuff is OK, but I have owned several professional series tools and they were junk too. I feel strongly about this b/c I had ALL craftsman tools at one point because I was loyal to them, and the quality kept slipping and slipping to the point where I swore I would never buy another craftsman tool.

Search the used market for better quality stuff, I think you could find a PM 64A for around what you have to spend that is in perfect shape. If you can't wait, then diffently go with something like you mentioned I think "grizzly", most people think they are great. I would also advice maybe a Jet, I know you can get those for around 500, less slightly used.

Bottom line, I would avoid that Craftsman like the plague, you will never be happy with it, even if you did spend another few hundred on a nice fence system, again just my opinion, good luck.

jason

[Bill White]

Clean up is no big thing. As a matter of fact a thorough cleaning will help you get to know your equipment better. Why not take your builder buddy with you to look at the saw? Ask to make a test cut or two. May even want to borrow a good blade that is sharp for this test.
That saw was made by Emerson, and though not the "finest", it can be set to work accurately with a good blade. $100.00 ain't a bad starting point unless there are lots of issues with the mechanics/elec. of the saw.
Bill

[Eric Haycraft]

The rust can be taken care of no problem as long as there is no pitting. I haven't had to do it, but there are plenty of posts explaining how to get it done. The fence looks sturdy enough and I don't see any red flags from the pics.

You may have problems with a saw like that for cutting sheet goods since they get cumbersome on smaller saws. You would definitely need outfeed support. It should be powerful enough if you are sticking to sheet goods and thinner stock. If you get into 2X hardwoods you may find it underpowered.

What you may want to consider is getting a cheap TS like the one that you posted and spend the remaining money on a circular saw guide system. There are systems out there that will help you produce very nice cuts without having to feed large sheets through the table saw. I have a festool saw & guide, but there are more economical solutions out there.

Depending upon your area, CL may be a gold mine. I routinely see jet contractor saws in the 400 dollar range and a saw like that could easily last a lifetime if you take care of it. There are plenty of creekers with contractor saws producing wonderful pieces.

Your work looks nice BTW.

[Kyle Costlow]

Does anyone know about the XR-2424 fence, the guy says it cost him 115$ and is very accurate, looks pretty nice to me. Has anyone used a 113.298240 saw, how long to their motors usually last? its a 110V, and I know those don't last as long as the 220, but how much use could I expect from an old motor like that. I have read that this model is similar to the new ridgid 3560, both are made my Emerson.




-Thanks for the compliment Eric:)

[Stephen Edwards]

I vote with Bill and Eric. Take a good saw blade with you and ask to try it out. I know for a fact that a fence like the one posted in the pic can be tuned to "dead on the money". And, as Bill says, cleaning up the old saw will give you a good education on table saws in general. If you're patient and willing to spend a little time tuning that saw up, you'll be better prepared to make a more informed decision when you're ready to buy a better saw. In the meantime, for 100 bucks you have table saw that will serve your needs for a while!

That's my two "sense" worth..........

[Tim Thomas]

As a fellow beginning woodworker on a budget I can sympathize with your situation. One thing to keep in mind is that if you only have about $500 to spend, that you will need to reserve some of that for saw "accessories". I got a nice ShopFox contractor saw (I've been told that ShopFox is made in the same factories as Grizzly) that was on clearance at Redmond Machinery for just over $500, but then I bought a nice Freud blade that ran about $60, a mobile base for $70, and a link-twist belt for $25 that helps with vibration. I also built some outfeed/support tables as one of my first projects to help me handle full sheets of plywood.

That being said, I think you should consider buying that used Craftsman saw because it will leave money in your budget to buy quality accessories that are brand new. If you decide later to upgrade your saw, you will probably be able to sell it for the same $100 (maybe more if you clean it up) and you can keep all of the accessories you buy to use on your new saw. Don't be afraid to buy used tools. I just bought a used Jointer last weekend for $100 and it is cleaning up nicely. If the top of that saw is cast iron you will find that it cleans up very easily with just WD-40, scotch brite pads and 400 or 600 grit wet sandpaper. I put up some pics of my jointer a couple days ago: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=77024

Do see if you can get the owner to fire the saw up for you and make some test cuts. If the motor sounds good and the cuts come out square I would say go for it. Also, if he doesn't have the manual for the saw, see if you can find it online. Good luck!

BTW: My first tablesaw was a Craftsman that I bought new for $120, 5 years ago (nowhere near as big as what you are looking at). Although it is no comparison to my current saw, it was enough for me to do some simple projects and get me hooked on woodworking.

[scott spencer]

Hi Kyle - That's an Emerson made Craftsman saw that has very similar guts to the Ridgid that you mentioned. It's even American made. Ridgid is owned by Emerson and is now made by the parent company of Ryobi. The parts are worth more than the asking price, and the fence should be functional and is also very similar to the Ridgid's. Surface rust is easy enough to remove. As long as the other mechanisms work and the blade is, or can be aligned, there's no reason that saw can't be made to perform quite well with a decent blade. The motor's can last a very long time, but it depends on a lot of things. I agree with the suggestion to take your carpenter friend along and check it out.

The BT3100 you mentioned is no longer available as that model, but Ryobi does make a Craftsman 21829 that is essentially the same saw with some updates, a roll away mobile base, and a built in router table...goes on sale in the ~ $350 range pretty often.

Good luck!

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/productImages/0/3/00000110603-CraftsmanProfessional10InchPortableTableSaw21829-large.jpeg

[Lance Sleeper]

I was in a similar situation when my vintage 50's saw finally died. I got a Hitachi from Lowes and have been happy (link below). I am a light professional/serious hobbiest and can cut 8/4 maple, bubinga, and walnut with a Freud thin-kerf ripping blade. I would prefer a bigger saw, but this one is doing what I need it to. Cost was $499 new. It also has the dust collector in the cabinet, which I really liked over the open bottom on the other models in the same range.

[Chris Padilla]

My father still uses his old C-man CS just like the one you are considering although I dunno the exact part number. It was the saw I grew up on and we turned out many a find project. Just do your due diligence to make sure the saw is up to snuff for you and you hopefully have a good buy on your hands! I think it is perfect for someone on a limited budget...when you get out of college and land the big job, you can save up for a nice cabinet table saw and then pass the C-man on to the next college student! ;)

[Glenn Clabo]

I learned on a saw like this...made a living with a saw like this...and still can do what I want on a saw like this. You need to get a good blade, pay attention to detail, and with a little elbow grease you can have a workable saw and do what you want. If you ever open a pro shop...you'll need something more powerful. If you ever make a lot of money...and you want something more for your hobby...go for it. Just don't let anyone tell you that you can't do what you want with this saw.

[Kyle Costlow]

wow, thanks for all the advice, real nice site you got here:)

[Tom Henderson2]

Hello Kyle-

You have gotten a lot of good advice. That saw is a pretty fair tool for $100. If it doesn't come with good blades, budget to buy at least one good one. That saw certainly has plenty of power for cutting sheet goods and the dimension lumber you would use on projects like you show in the photos (very nice work BTW).

Motor longevity should not be an issue unless that saw has been outside in the rain ore really abused. Most homeowner saw motors last nearly forever.

But as a couple folks mentioned, that saw alone probably is not a good solution for cutting up full 4x8 sheets... especially if you are working alone. The table just isn't large enough, unless you build fairly large infeed/outfeed support tables, and those take time and money to build and room to set up and store.

For the sheet goods you may be better served with a decent circular saw and a guide system. Eureka is one, and they have a forum here on SMC so check it out. Festool has a very nice one but it is probably out of your price range. (and mine!).

One thought... you could mooch the big tools at your buddy's shop to cut the big sheets down to manageble size, and do the remaining work at your place.

My $0.02

-Tom H.
Ventura, CA

[Kyle Costlow]

I decided to go ahead and buy the craftsman, I went into more detail in this post, if you have any advice for me I am all ears:) thanks again!!
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=781125&posted=1#post781125

[Fred Voorhees]

Kyle, I don't know where you are located, but it is probably a prohibitive distance to maybe purchase my Delta contractor saw that will be available shortly. I am about ready to buy a new cabinet saw and will be posting this one in the classifieds here at SMC for $450. I will let the pictures do the talking. If you can't pick this one up, at least you can get an idea of what you could afford in your budget.

[Ray Hickey]

Hi Kyle; I too just had to make a decision on a new table saw and I looked at Grizzly G1023S and Rigid TS3650 very hard. I liked Grizzly better because of general weight, design, size, fence and motor size. But like you I too am on a budget. My shop is small and I am just a hobbycraft builder - partime - So I made the decision to buy the Ridgid and I am very satisfied. It was quite a few hundred dollars cheaper and much more mobile for my shop. Only negative so far is that I had to make a zero clearence plate and a dado plate. Easy and no problem. My final word is that if you are a full time builder than you might need a more professional saw. But the Ridgid is a good buy....:)