Electrical Code, buried cable question

[Bill Webber]

I have a couple electrical code problems that need to be fixed. One that is simple to ask about is this. I have a buried UF cable running from the house to a shed. The cable should have been run in conduit from the opening in the side of the house down into the ground at least 24-inches. Is there a product that can be used to properly protect this cable without cutting it, something that can be put over the cable, or wrapped around it?

If you do good on this one, I have more complicated questions :):confused::)

Thanks...

[Chris Padilla]

So you are saying the UF cable is perfectly visible and non-protected as it leaves your house and then enters the ground?

I'm far from a code expert but could you buy some schedule 80 oversized, split it lengthwise, and then work it around the exposed cable? In fact, I'm sure you can do this but will it pass inspection? Could you simply box in the cable with plywood? Bolt a couple pieces of wood around the cable and then slip a simple plywood box around it, secure it to the wood, paint it to match the house?

I know UF is solid and very stiff to work with but is disconnecting it a real bear?

There is my shot. :)

[Rob Russell]

Without cutting the cable - yeah ... disconnect it from the feeding panelboard, pull it out, slip a section of Schedule 80 conduit over it (appropriate size of course) and reconnect the cable to the panelboard.

That meets your criteria of "properly protect this cable without cutting it", although that would be a bit of a nuisance to do.

Chris' idea of boxing in the cable is an interesting one. I'd ask your local AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdiction) if that would be acceptable. One issue is that the wood would need to be buried 24" deep and that, to me, is like building a critter highway for termites.

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The sleeving to protect the UF only needs to go 18" below grade - not 24". The code section is 300.5(D)(1).

[Chris Padilla]

Ah, I neglected to consider the 2' of burial depth. Plastic is termite proof! :) Pressure-treated could be used...or that plastic/milk-jug "wood" as well.

[Rob Russell]

Ah, I neglected to consider the 2' of burial depth. Plastic is termite proof! :) Pressure-treated could be used...or that plastic/milk-jug "wood" as well.

Wouldn't termites just crawl up whatever is buried and keep on going until they hit munchable stuff? They build tunnels up concrete. We put the metal flashing termite shields on our addition to keep them from getting to the wood.

[Chris Padilla]

I am no exterminator, Rob! LOL...I don't even play one on TV!! I guess it all depends on the type of siding on your house and any exposed wood you might have that they could build a tunnel to, I suppose. I heard some termites have wings, too, and can fly up to exposed wood on second/third stories!

[Bill Webber]

Many times the easiest way is just to go ahead and do it right. The only two options I could come up with were, as Chris suggested, try to split a condolet and piece of pvc conduit and work it in there or pull the wire back and properly install the pvc and condolet, as Rob was saying. I don't believe anything not made for the purpose, i.e. wood, would be viewed as acceptable.

If I can find a couple inches of slack anywhere between the panel and the wire outside, I guess I'll go ahead and try to re-run it.

Anyone know if a sub panel is needed in an out building? By needed, I mean needed by code? I was running a 40 amp line to the shed with a sub panel. The sub panel is improperly wired. It has only 3 conductors instead of 4. I figure I can 'fix it' by simply making the shed run on 110v only from a 20 amp breaker in the main panel and make the sub panel into just a junction box (no breakers) That would reduce the available power out there to lights and a couple outlets but I think it would meet code. The sub panel would no longer be a sub panel per se, just a big junction box.

Any thoughts?

Regards...

[Chris Padilla]

At least here in the Bay Area, I can say for sure that a sub-panel is NOT NECESSARILY needed when feeding a line from say your house panel to say, a shed that you want some electricity in. I've done this and it was fine. I tapped off a 15-A circuit and put two outlets and a light in one of my sheds...no problem.

I have NO CLUE if you can simply turn a breaker box into a juntion box but if you gut it enough so it has no chance (or is difficult) to be turned back into a breaker box, it seems to me it would be okay.

[Ernie Starnes]

You can use a three-wire feed if there aren't any other metal pathways between the buildings (water line, cable tv, phone, etc). If there are any other metal pathways (or you intend to install them) then a four wire feed including hot, hot, neutral, and ground is required. You'll need a driven ground for a subpanel on an accessory building. If your area has adopted the 2008 NEC, a four wire feed would be required.

[ken gibbs]

I recently ran 200 feet of # 2, four wire underground from my home to my new workshop. Since this is an extremely rocky area, its necessary to use conduit around e- wire to prevent eventual degrading of the insulation around your underground cable. I used schedule # 40 conduit from Lowes ($3.18 for a 10 foot section) and lay the cable/conduit at 24" depth. You have to use UL rated (Underground rated) cable even if its sealed inside conduit. I had to cross a gravel driveway so I elected to use galvanized 1 1/2" conduit where the conduit would be subjected to vehicle traffic. Seal the joints between sections after installation and use wire lubricant to put the cable inside the conduit. .Extra expense but well worth the extra cost.

[Jim O'Dell]

If you have enough slack, can you add a waterproof junction box at the house? You could cut the wire, add your conduit, and reconnect inside the box. If not, ask if an oversized pipe cut in half length wise, slipped around the pipe, and then held together with pipe clamps would be code.
As far as termites, I'd think that they could also tunnel inside the pipe too, but maybe the mud for their tunnels won't stick to the PVC pipe? Jim.

[dave rollins]

Bill
You may want to check out this product as it would allow you to encase the wire without removing it. This doesn't solve your problem of the condulet but with a fine saw and super glue hmmmmm.http://www.conduitrepair.com/ Hope this helps
Dave

[Rick Gifford]

Honestly I would just dig the trench and run the cable through conduit like it should be. Splitting a conduit will only allow water to leak in lay against it anyway.

Conduit keeps accidental cutting when digging, but around here it keeps the moles from chomping into it!

Anyway, I suspect it would be cheaper to use regular pvc conduit rather than buying something special to go around it. PVC conduit is only $1.50 or so for 10 feet around here.

[Randy Cohen]

call your local inspector and ask what the local requirements are. he works for the government which is almost like he works for you.

[Rob Damon]

Yes they do make split conduit.

http://www.innerduct.com/products/split_pvc.php

Residential direct buried is 18".

It's only 12" if it's 120v or less, 20amp max. with GFCI protection.

The UF cable only needs protection down to 18" below grade. I would see if you can find enough slack in the cable and use the correct fittings to do it right.

Rob D.

[Rob Russell]

You can use a three-wire feed if there aren't any other metal pathways between the buildings (water line, cable tv, phone, etc). If there are any other metal pathways (or you intend to install them) then a four wire feed including hot, hot, neutral, and ground is required. You'll need a driven ground for a subpanel on an accessory building. If your area has adopted the 2008 NEC, a four wire feed would be required.

Ernie is correct about possibly being able to use a 3-wire feed. One thing that he doesn't say is that the conductor used for the neutral must be insulated. If the 3rd conductor in the UF is not insulated (just bare copper in the jacket/casing), you can't use it as the neutral.

Addy protocol: unlicensed, homeowner electrician

[Rob Russell]

I recently ran 200 feet of # 2, four wire underground from my home to my new workshop. Since this is an extremely rocky area, its necessary to use conduit around e- wire to prevent eventual degrading of the insulation around your underground cable. I used schedule # 40 conduit from Lowes ($3.18 for a 10 foot section) and lay the cable/conduit at 24" depth. You have to use UL rated (Underground rated) cable even if its sealed inside conduit. I had to cross a gravel driveway so I elected to use galvanized 1 1/2" conduit where the conduit would be subjected to vehicle traffic. Seal the joints between sections after installation and use wire lubricant to put the cable inside the conduit. .Extra expense but well worth the extra cost.

FYI, running Schedule 40 conduit for most of the run is fine. Using the galvanized under the driveway was a good idea. Still, where the PVC went vertical and came up - that technically needed to be Schedule 80.

Rob
Addy protocol: unlicensed, homeowner electrician

[Rob Russell]

Yes they do make split conduit.

http://www.innerduct.com/products/split_pvc.php


Interesting product, but it only comes in Schedule 40 and you need Schedule 80 to sleeve the UF where it's "subject to damage" (which is above ground). See 300.5(D)(4)



Residential direct buried is 18".


Only if it's under a driveway or parking area. All other installations require 24" cover. (Table 300.5)



It's only 12" if it's 120v or less, 20amp max. with GFCI protection.

The UF cable only needs protection down to 18" below grade. I would see if you can find enough slack in the cable and use the correct fittings to do it right.


I agree. I need to edit my first post about the 24". The sleeving requirement is limited to 18" in 300.5(D)(1).

Rob
Addy protocol: unlicensed, homeowner electrician