Ash or Oak? whats the diff if painted?

[Lynn Kasdorf]

So I'm building this built-in shelf cabinet for a customer. A very picky customer. It needs to match a custom vanity that was made mostly of nice quarter sawn ash. And then PAINTED black! That's what the client settled on. The grain of the wood shows through.

So, I'm building a recessed open front cabinet to match it. Fortunately, I have some of the exact lacquer that was used on the main piece.

I've built the cabinet out of oak veneer plywood. Now, time for the trim around the edge, which is 1 1/2" wide and 3/8" thick. I have machined up some nice quarter sawn white oak for this purpose. But- it is not Ash. The oak is nice stuff, and has some pretty ray flecks, but I'm afraid that these will show through. Cool as the look is, I'm afraid it will be a little too different. However- the oak grain will be a closer match to the grain of the oak ply.

Maybe I'm giving the customer too much credit to think they would notice a grain difference.

I think I have some ash around here, but jeepers, is there really that much difference? I guess I'm being overly cautious because this is my first paying woodworking gig, and I'm getting paid very well.

[Cody Colston]

I think the ray flecks in the QSWO may be too much. Especially since it is your first paying project etc., I'd go overboard to give the customer what they want.

Use the Ash.

[Joe Chritz]

Not sure but your second sentence made me jump and grab my heart.

When it doubt run it by the client. Paint a sample and show it and get them to sign off if it isn't to the letter of the original contract.

Joe

[Jim Becker]

I agree with Joe's suggestion, no matter which wood you use. You may want to prepare two samples; one of each species and fully finished...and let the customer choose without telling them which is which. And have them sign off...

Ash gets used a lot for "ebonizing" like this. I personally prefer the look of ash over oak in this situation, but I've not seen how QS might affect this since I've never had any QS ash in my hands.

[John Shuk]

I vote for ash too. I think it takes paint a bit better as well.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Unless the oak is cheaper or inferior in some way you won't have an unjust enrichment problem.

However, since this is "Craft" and as such it is sort of like "Art" because it is the aesthetics which the customer is paying for (or they'd just go to IKEA) you should deliver exactly what they want.

If you think that the wood in question is incidental then (as suggested above) make a sample and take it to 'em BUT first consider whether these people care at all about how much any particular lumber costs.
Are they wealthy? Spend lots of $$ on the details?
If so, it is quite probable that the notion that there is continuity of materials is important to them.


The difference is your reputation.

[Dan Gill]

Save that quarter-sawn white oak for something else. To me, the grain of ash looks more like red oak than anything else. I suspect ash will be less expensive than even red oak. But whatever you do, don't paint that quarter-sawn.

[Wade Lippman]

I just build a chair and couch. The chair is red oak and the couch is sycamore; both have a dark mahogany stain on them. To me the difference is pretty conspicuous, but no one else has noticed it until I point it out.

I seriously doubt anyone will see the difference between oak and ash when painted.

(I was only planning on the couch, and when my wife "asked" for a matching chair I couldn't get anymore sycamore.)

[Lynn Kasdorf]

I did manage to find a piece of clear ash that I could *just barely* get the required cuts out of.

So- this makes me feel better. I bid a ridiculously high price for the job and got it, so I don't want there to be any possible points of contention. This customer may well have follow on work as well.

I resided my barn last year with white oak and I have a bunch of it...so I'm always looking for uses.

Thanks for the input folks.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I resided my barn last year with white oak and I have a bunch of it...so I'm always looking for uses.

Sell it to me. Got any 2" thick white oak??

[Kevin Godshall]

Even when the customer has no idea of what they want or how they want it, they are still always right. Even if they would accept the oak trim, the word of mouth may be enough to prevent you from seeing any more work from this avenue. It will take 10 Yes's to get another job, but 1 No can stop 10 jobs from coming your way. Always, always, always do exactly what the customer asks, requests or approves, even if its idiotic or downright wrong.

[Lynn Kasdorf]

My friend built the custom vanity that my cabinet has to match. He moved out of the area, so I picked up this follow-on job.

He build doors out of glued up QS ash, and did a beautiful job. He used the best hinges, and when he was done, the doors were perfectly aligned and evenly spaced. The gap between the closed doors was a very consistent 1/8".

When we installed this, the big openings for the sinks were letting light in, and you could see through the small gap into the cabinet interior. Of course, with the sinks installed, it will be very dark in there, and the gap will not be an issue. Still, she didn't like it.

So, he went back and added backer strips to the left hand doors, to hide the hideous gap. Of course, this decreases the usability significantly because you now have to close the left door first.

But, she got her way.

I get to install my piece in a few days. I can't wait to see what surprises are in store for me! Of course, expecting some nonsense, I priced the job really high to compensate. I did write into the quote that changes may incur additional cost, so we'll see.

[Lynn Kasdorf]

Sell it to me. Got any 2" thick white oak??

When I said that I had a lot of it, what I really meant is that I ended up with a lot of scraps and cutoffs. The stuff has been air drying, and it is very nice stuff. I have lots and lots of projects in mind.

I do have some 2x12 oak, but they are going to be beams for th eloft I'm building.

Check to see if you have a local sawmill. When I bought my wood, it turned out to be $.67/bd ft for 1x12 green white oak. Considerably cheaper than pine! Of course, you have to be really careful when installing green siding lumber (nail in the middle).

[Don Bullock]

I have to say that IMHO ash is ash and oak is oak. If the client is expecting ash, then give them ash and save the oak for something else. Unless you're in an unusual area, ash should be a lot cheaper than quarter sawn white oak or even the red oak plywood. Yes, I can see the difference in grain even when painted like you are planning to paint it. Some may think that ash and oak grain look alike, but not when the client, especially a picky one, is expecting ash I wouldn't take the chance.

[Kevin Godshall]

My friend built the custom vanity that my cabinet has to match. He moved out of the area, so I picked up this follow-on job.

He build doors out of glued up QS ash, and did a beautiful job. He used the best hinges, and when he was done, the doors were perfectly aligned and evenly spaced. The gap between the closed doors was a very consistent 1/8".

When we installed this, the big openings for the sinks were letting light in, and you could see through the small gap into the cabinet interior. Of course, with the sinks installed, it will be very dark in there, and the gap will not be an issue. Still, she didn't like it.

So, he went back and added backer strips to the left hand doors, to hide the hideous gap. Of course, this decreases the usability significantly because you now have to close the left door first.

But, she got her way.

I get to install my piece in a few days. I can't wait to see what surprises are in store for me! Of course, expecting some nonsense, I priced the job really high to compensate. I did write into the quote that changes may incur additional cost, so we'll see.

Hate to say it......but........

Been there, done that.

Hate to say it....... but.....

Will be there again, will be doing it again.


Good Luck with your installation and your Customer Satisfaction Rating! ;)