need advice for inserting rosseau router plate into bench dog promax cast iron table

[SF Basilix]

Hello to all,

I am in a bit of a quandary as I recently purchased a Rosseau router table insert for my already existing Bench dog ProMax Cast Iron router table that I have attached to my table saw. I had to purchase a new router plate as the one that comes shipped with the bench dog model is not flexible enough to insert bushings or open wide to accept larger router bits. I saw that the Rosseau has inner rings that you can remove to adjust to the size of the bits and so I purchased it. It is black phenolic (?) with a grey outer ring and a red inner ring which can be removed.

The problem I have is now that I opened the Rosseau packaging and tried to insert it into the cast iron table, it doesn't fit. The Rosseau is too big by about 1/4" on two sides and about 1/2" on the other two sides.

So first, I'm really annoyed that either Rosseau or ProMax didn't conform to any type of standard sizing. Now I'm even more annoyed because I need this router plate to finish my routing and I am stuck as to what I should do.

My thought that I need advice on is this:

Since I know I cannot re-mill the cast iron router top, I am forced to resize the router plate. But I have never milled a router plate before and am nervous in doing so. I don't feel comfortable enough using my table-saw to cut the edges down to size, so I figure I'll probably use my band-saw. But is this OK? Has anyone done this and is there anything I should worry about? I am hoping this is something I can mill, otherwise I'm really outta luck here....

So I need some advice from some veteran router folks - has anyone attempted this before? Any tips?

Many Thanks to all!!

[JayStPeter]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news. There is no standard size for inserts. So with the cast iron top, you'll probably have to deal with bench dog to get the insert you need or make one yourself. I don't know their product line, but I know they have lifts and may have other inserts that'll work for you.
I would recommend returning the Rousseau. They are not flat which leads to more problems. IIRC, the Rousseau has ribs in the bottom to stiffen it up also. So, I'd be hesitant to cut it.
But, if you go forward anyway, I'd use the other insert as a template and use a bearing guided bit to mill away the material. Double stick tape them together with the bit centers in approximately the same place and rout away.
I don't know how the bench dog top works as far as leveling the insert. If the levelers are built into the insert, think about how you'll get that done also. If the table has that built in you're probably OK. Otherwise, come up with a plan first.

[Jim Becker]

What Jay said...the Rouseau isn't the right size and shape for the BenchDog table setup.

[SF Basilix]

Thanks Jim and Jay - I guess I will have to fork over more $$ for a Benchdog insert. Sad that it has to be this way.

I'm really perplexed though with something. I only found 2 different types of inserts by ProMax. One was a standard aluminum plate, the other was their prolift. What I don't get is in the pictures for their prolift, it only shows one ring that can be removed and that's a very large ring mostly used for raising the router flush with the table top so you can remove the bits.

Isn't this a bit ridiculous that they don't make different sized rings for different sized router bits? I just don't see how anyone could use anything but small bits or one very humongous bit in this $300+ table. Do guys on this forum use table inserts like this? What do you do when the opening is so over-sized and you have a bit that doesn't come near to taking up that entire opening?

Just curious....

[Bob Feeser]

The Rousseau insert has a rabbetted lip all the way around the outside. That way you have a thinner lip to mate up to your table, yet still maintain a thicker center for added support. That is an important feature due to the typical limitation of table top thickness of a router table. This may not be a consideration with the Bench Dog cast iron top. I have the predecessor Bench Dog, with the MDF top as the center section.
It was from Bench Dog that I learned the trick of using flat headed melamine screws as adjusters all the way around the rim of the insert plate. I am assuming that Bench Dog is still using the same system, or maybe not, you of course would know that, and I am curious about that.
Anyhow if your Bench Dog insert has the adjustable screws, and the insert is all one thickness, then imitate that on the Rousseau insert. (Although with the adjustable screws, you have flexiblity in that regard) Based on that you know whether you need to cut out an even thickness insert out of the Rousseau, or a thinner lip/border around the outside.
The suggestion that you use the original insert as a template to cut out the Rousseau is a good one.
Here are some key ingredients of using the Rousseau insert. Much controversy is made of the fact that the Rousseau has a crown on the top center. They did that purposely in order to improve the chances of the work surface being flat on the table, and not raised by any wood shavings getting under the workpiece. Many criticize that slight rise in the center as being a detriment. They prefer to leave the workpiece flat on the table without even the slightest rise in the center. Although I prefer the possiblity of a slight rise in the center, infinitely preferable to a slight valley, I use the combination of 3 factors to perfectly flatten the top of the Rousseau insert plate. 1) I use the melamine screws all the way around to be able to custom adjust, and readjust the insert to keep it perfectly flat on the table. 2) I use the 4 corner hold down screws, to offset the melamine screw settings to flatten the insert. 3) I use the router base plate, made out of metal to firmly tighten the Rousseau insert plate flat. Between those three things, I managed to perfectly flatten the Rousseau plate. You can lay a straight edge across my table top, and with all that adjustability, it is perfectly flat from stem to stern.
One other thing pertaining to the Rousseau insert. The rings are designed to go in without any slop. Some complain because they cannot pop them out using their thumb. As a matter of fact, many of them stand on their heads, trying to remove one. The trick is to use a quick tap to remove them. Very little force is required, as long as it is done properly. This reminds me of the tv commercial of the guy who can not remove the lid from a jar, then his wife gives it a rap with her hand, and it comes right off. It may not be the same principle, but the end result feels the same. What I do is go underneath the table, and with a pencil, with a rubber end on it, lay it on one of the rings, and then I tap the other end of the pencil with a small hammer, and it pops right out. A quick light tap releases it. A slow pressure thumb will not budge it. So the rings snap in and out easily, as long as you use the trick.
I agree with you, having the option to remove rings is great. Small holes for small tight work, and when you want to use the preferred 3 1/2" panel raising bits, you can expand the opening to accomodate that as well. (and all sizes in between)
The various ways to cut it, and dress the edges is too vast for practical coverage. Of course it is square, and I imagine so is the Bench Dog top. I think there will be a lot of creekers who will contribute to that as they have already.
Be sure and post your findings, and results. Thanks.

[John Parker]

When I looked at the plates on the Benchdog website it shows the aluminum plate is standard with two reduction rings. The Pro plates are offered in three opening options. Go to (www.benchdog.com) click on the products tab on the top of the page.

Goodluck

[glenn bradley]

As stated, each manufacturer has their plate size although some overlap. I really salivated over that RT extension wing for quite awhile. The plate is what kept holding me off. I had issues with a 2" minimum hole size as I do a bit of smaller work on the RT.

On my current rig I make ZCI's in addition to a few 'standard' sized throat plates. It seems if I do leave one hole size in for most things it is a 1-1/8" so you can see my objection to limited opening choices. A lot of folks probably change their throat plate almost never so this is not a failing on Bench Dog's part; just not a good fit for me.

I would definitely recommend getting the BD plate. If you plan to go with a lift later, save some dough and get the phenolic plate. If there is no lift in your future, get the better plate as it will be around for awhile.

[Jim Becker]

SF, the ProLift comes with three insert rings...and they are very thick and heavy. Very much like a shaper. I happen to love my ProLift!

[SF Basilix]

All - thanks for your comments, very well received.

Jim - thanks for letting me know that the prolift comes with 3 different sized insert rings. From first glance on their website it only appears as though there's 1. I did notice that the aluminum (non-lift) do come with 3.

I think I may play it safe and order the benchdog model, but I think the lift is too expensive for me now. Especially after I just spent that much on the cast iron table extension. I may do the aluminum plate and will purchase the Bosch base (only for router tables) which has a built-in lifter. Certainly not nearly as nice as the prolift, but I'm sure it will get the job done.

Thanks again to all for your advice - very resourceful!