Table Saw Mods - Opinions?

[Tony West]

I have a mid 70's Craftsman 10" contractors table saw. I believe it's called a bench saw, the base is larger than your typical contractors saw. I installed a t-square fence and I'm very happy with the way it cuts, it's just so darn heavy and hard to move. So, I've been debating some mods.

First, I'm thinking about taking the base (not just the legs, even the sheet metal that the handles attach to) off and building my own. I figure since everything that matters (read trunnion/motor/fence) is attached to the table top, this shouldn't be an issue. Thoughts?

Second, I was thinking of converting it into a hybrid style saw. I would remove the motor from the back of the saw and mount it to a hinged support underneath the blade. Just like a hybrid saw. I'm thinking this will make it smaller and more compact...in addition dust collection is a whole lot easier. I can also upgrade to a timing style belt easier, because i will be in control of the belt length. 2 concerns...has anyone ever done this, did it work? Second, will I have problems with an ODP motor and the dust inside the cabinet?

I'd appreciate any thoughts/feedback, even if it's "You're crazy, don't do such a stupid thing" :-)

Thanks!

[Art Mann]

You don't plan on doing any bevel cuts?

[Tony West]

I guess I wasn't real clear...

If I put the motor below the table, it will still be attached to the trunion...so that I can do bevel cuts. I am thinking of a configuration exactly like a hybrid saw, where the motor is mounted under the blade, attached to the trunnion so that it will tilt with the blade.

[Loren Hedahl]

Since the market value of your saw is low, you don't stand to lose much if the project bombs. So in that case, go for it.

However, as an American (I'm assuming your are) you can purchase Chinese labor for less than a dime on the dollar. So unless there is nothing on the market that would satisfy you, why would you want to compete with an underpaid/overworked Chinese fellow? Just go and purchase the saw that causes your heart pleasure and be happy.

I tend to fall into the same trap, so we must be kindred spirits to some extent. And I find myself making all kinds of mods to just about everything I own. But It is as a hobby, not a living I do this.

As an example, I had a fairly elaborate guided rail saw system based on a Makita hypoid gear saw, home made rails and many accessories. Lack of sawdust control caused me to upgrade to Festool equivalent. No dime on the dollar there, but life is certainly better.

[Ben Cadotte]

I don't see much to be gained by moving the motor. But building a new base sounds good. You can reclaim some lost space by making it a cabinet. Get some extra storage space. As for the sheetmetal under the top where the handles come out. Your not going to be saving much weight by removing it. Now you may want to do it to tinker, not sure. But to me seems like your opening a pretty serious can of worms to change motor position.

I have done some mods to my craftsman saw like pulleys, link belt, doubling the rip capacity with stock craftsman fence, home made set of pals, and an extension side table with router. I have always wanted a little more power. When it come time I will be buying a cabinet saw vs trying to fit bigger motor to same saw.

[Norman Pyles]

This is my take on the larger footprint, of the contractor saws. If you build any kind of outfeed table, and I think most folks do, then the footprint size is moot. But if you do decied to go ahead with your plans, please post some photos when your finished.:)

[Wayne Cannon]

If your saw is anything like my 1971 Crafstman was, it would probably be much simpler and almost as effective to put a two-piece 1/4" plywood back on the saw with cut-outs for the belt and motor mount (two-piece to enable you to close up better around the belt).

[Curt Harms]

I had a Sears contractors saw and made my own base on wheels. I built it sort of like a gravity box that farmers use to haul grain. It sloped on 3 sides toward the back. Then put a 4" dust collection fitting at the low point where all 3 surfaces come together (easier to do than to explain). Hooked up to a dust collector it worked remarkably well. I wish I had taken pics before I sold it with the saw.

HTH

Curt

[scott spencer]

It's hard for me to envision how you'll be attaching the motor so that it can still bevel...I'd be interested in seeing some pics if you go through with it.

[Mark Roderick]

I inherited an old 8" Delta Rockwell saw from my grandfather 15 years ago, on a rickety old stand. I threw the stand away and built a solid base of plywood, bolted to the floor, then threw the rickety fence away and built an extension on the side and bolted on a Biesmeyer fence. I'm left with a very accurate little saw with great sentimental value.

[Travis Gauger]

Tony, I think that you have a great idea, I actually have a friend that is contemplating the same thing. I think that I follow you with the motor mounted below the blade. Here's how I would do it: I'd take the existing motor and plate off the machine, Come down with a new piece of plate steel off of the plate that rides on the trunion at the back of the saw where the motor used to mount. Then you can turn the motor from the outside back of the machine to the inside back of the machine. This should give enough clearance to be able to enclose it with a cabinet. You are correct about everything being mounted to the bottom of your table on that style of saw. Should be easy enough to make a hybrid. Here's a primative drawing of my explanation.

[scott kinninger]

With all due respect, I also have an older Craftsman saw so I have some idea what you're referring to but I really fail to see what is to be gained by the incredible amount of work of moving the motor and rebuilding the base. Do you have metal-working equipment and a welder that you're anxious to use or what? It's been suggested previously to take a piece of 1/4" plywood or MDF and attach that to the opening in the back of the saw, that will significantly improve your dust collection. You said early that your happy with the way it cuts but it is really heavy, that sounds like two MAJOR positives to me, why mess with either one of these? If mobility is an issue buy a mobile base but why REMOVE weight from a table saw?

[Tony West]

Thank you everyone for your opinions.

A couple of points of clarification...

The saw is akward and unstable...yes it's heavier than heck, but I understand that is a good thing. I do believe that an MDF base would weigh a whole lot more than a stamped steel one, and be more stable. I will add wheels to the saw not matter what route I end up going, but I won't buy a 50-100 dollar mobile base.

My shop is very small, and every inch counts. I have debated the folding outfeed table, with a 1-2 foot fixed extension out over the motor, but that's 1-2 feet that I lose in my shop all the time. At least with a folding outfeed table on a cabinet style saw, it can be folded down and not lose any space.

It sounds like there are other options for dust collection that I hadn't thought of. I would be interested if anyone has any photos of the kind of setups listed above.

I am still very intersted in the ODP vs. TEFC motor. Would the dust hurt the motor? I have a friend that has a high end cabinet saw and it has an ODP motor in it. But a drill press has a TEFC motor. I guess I don't understand what dust would do to each of these types of motors in different environments.

Thanks again for the opinions...sometimes crazy ideas like this might start a new trend or fall flat on thier faces...that's the beauty of these forums!

[Travis Gauger]

Good question Tony. My saw has an open drip proof motor as well. Why is that. Everything else has TEFC motors. And my TS Motor is in the tick of it, unlike my jointer which is actually seperated from sawdust. Hmm. I'm interested now.

[David Gunn]

ODP motors cost less than TEFC motors. It is probably a way for the manufacturer to save some money on building it. OPD motors are not designed to be in dusty environments. I am surprised to learn that some table saws come with ODP motors. My Ridgid had a TEFC motor, and I am glad. As bad as the dust gets on it, I would think an ODP motor would get too dirty, causing it to get too hot.

[Phil Thien]

Tony, I think that you have a great idea, I actually have a friend that is contemplating the same thing. I think that I follow you with the motor mounted below the blade. Here's how I would do it: I'd take the existing motor and plate off the machine, Come down with a new piece of plate steel off of the plate that rides on the trunion at the back of the saw where the motor used to mount. Then you can turn the motor from the outside back of the machine to the inside back of the machine. This should give enough clearance to be able to enclose it with a cabinet. You are correct about everything being mounted to the bottom of your table on that style of saw. Should be easy enough to make a hybrid. Here's a primative drawing of my explanation.

Travis, I have thought of doing that same mod before, but I was concerned with how it would change the dynamics of the stress placed on the trunion. Any idea how the change in the center of gravity for the motor would impact the trunion?

[Travis Gauger]

Travis, I have thought of doing that same mod before, but I was concerned with how it would change the dynamics of the stress placed on the trunion. Any idea how the change in the center of gravity for the motor would impact the trunion?

Hi there Phil. I'm not sure what the exact implications are for moving the motor under the trunion like that, but as I look at the saw and how the trunion is mounted to the table, I looks to me that it may be an improvement to mount it below. Here's my thoughts as to why; In the stock location the motor is "Cantilevered" off the back of the saw and as you raise and lower the blade the motor moves slightly to keep the belt tensioned properly. This is introducing a significant amount of pressure or force on the back fulcrom point for the motor mount. That fulcrom point would be eliminated by putting the motor below the blade, and all your weight is now centered under the main trunion to table mounting points instead of being cantilevered out the back. I'm interested in hearing others feedback on those thoughts. Thanks.

[Travis Gauger]

ODP motors cost less than TEFC motors. It is probably a way for the manufacturer to save some money on building it. OPD motors are not designed to be in dusty environments. I am surprised to learn that some table saws come with ODP motors. My Ridgid had a TEFC motor, and I am glad. As bad as the dust gets on it, I would think an ODP motor would get too dirty, causing it to get too hot.


Hmmm. I think that we are missing something here. I would imagine that your Rigid is a contractor style saw as I don't think they make a cabinet base model. I looked at my Delta unisaw and it has an ODP motor. Looked at a friends PM66, ODP. Checked Woodcraft and looked in a SawStop, ODP. Checked out grizzly.com and downloaded a few of their top end saw parts manuals, All ODP. I understand ODP motors cost less, but if SawStop and Powermatic are using ODP motors in their cabinet style saws, there must be a good reason. These are not "Price Point" machines. My friends PM66 is 30 years old and has the original motor in it. We actually had to scrape the sawdust off the motor to even see it. I can't really think of any reason why these manufacturers are using ODP motors in cabinet style saws, but it can't be to lower price at a cost to performance, longevity, or quality.