Beall Carnauba Wax Question

[Maylon Harvey]

I went to deliver a walnut bowl to my cousin’s wife today. While carrying it in, it got a few small rain drops on it. When I went to give it to her a few minutes later they had dried and etched into the carnauba wax. I tried to buff them out with a cloth, no go, tried a little Pledge, that didn’t do a thing to the rain drops and it made the rest of the surface dull. Was I embarrassed. Of course my cousin let me have it, “Sure, give us your second’s”, “We’re not good enough for the good stuff”, Inferior goods” etc. So I brought it home to repair. I have read that you can’t get carnauba wax wet, but I didn’t think it would damage the finish that bad and that quick. I thought carnauba was supposed to be a hard tough wax. When I got home I tried rebuffing with just the wax. It didn’t do a thing to the etchings. Rebuffed with the Tripoli then the wax and good as new. Decided to experiment a bit and put a few small drops of water on the wax and IMMIDIATELY wiped them off. Same thing, the water etched the wax just that quick. Buffed out again, no problem. I tried a topcoat of pledge and another higher quality furniture polish and as before all they did was dull the finish, and I mean dull. Again I rebuffed and had to use both the Tripoli and the wax. By the way, the reason I’m not using the white diamond is the bowl is walnut. Any suggestions????

[Tim A. Mitchell]

Curios to hear replies, as I don't know. Seems odd though, since car wax is carnuba, and thoose seem to get wet occasionally

[Johnathan Bussom]

Hope you're not drinkin that water:D , seriously I can't answer your question but I did do a test on a couple pieces I had handy! One a small cherry ring box and the other a nut bowl made from red oak, left the water set on both several minutes before removing and I see no difference.

Is the carnuba wax from Beall? somewhere I have read that some of these waxes may not be the same.

My thoughts are maybe something to do with the walnut and I have some pieces in the basement I am going to test later, I know what you mean about not using white diamond on walnut, I learned the hard way!

[Maylon Harvey]

Hope you're not drinkin that water:D , seriously I can't answer your question but I did do a test on a couple pieces I had handy! One a small cherry ring box and the other a nut bowl made from red oak, left the water set on both several minutes before removing and I see no difference.

Is the carnuba wax from Beall? somewhere I have read that some of these waxes may not be the same.

My thoughts are maybe something to do with the walnut and I have some pieces in the basement I am going to test later, I know what you mean about not using white diamond on walnut, I learned the hard way!

Thanks for testing John. Yes it is Beall carnuba. Maybe it has to do with the walnut?? Maybe the wax has to age?? These were buffed 2 days ago, Friday.

[robert hainstock]

I cannot tell you why you are getting water spot on wax no more than I can tell you why the same thing happens on shellac or old varnish. I guess I'd try differant wax. save that stuff for pieces going to your shelvs. Some finishes react to water that way. Water is after all the universal solvent. Kinda sucky huh?:)

[Maylon Harvey]

It's not cause it's walnut. Just tried it on a cherry bowl that I buffed at the same time as the walnut. Same results, water spots.

[Jess Wetherhold]

I cannot say that I am an expert by any means but I have had these problems. I do a dozen or so outdoor craft shows a year in CA and when it rains...let's just say it isn't good.
No matter what finish I use I generally beal buff everything with caranuba wax. When I have the water spots I go back to my wheel and go through the EEE, white diamond and wax steps again. That works perfectly for me.
I don't know what configuration you have though. I have the system on my jet mini lathe. You could always try acetone to remove the wax, let dry and re-wax.
I use wax finishes on furniture and find that they are water resistant because they are applied very generously and allowed to harden before buffing. The methods we use in turning are pretty much for "shine factor" and not for protecting the piece.
EDIT- Just realized that you said walnut. In that case I would strip the piece and use tung oil. That is what I use on walnut and looks fantastic with a wax buff.
Just my .02.
Good luck

[Dick Strauss]

Maylon,
I've had the same experience with the Beall system wax. I took a piece over to show my neighbor and ended up with the same rain spots. This piece had been buffed several weeks earlier so age/dryness wasn't an issue. I'm tempted to ask JR Beall about the issue. IMO the buffing system is somewhat useless without being able to wax the final piece. I won't sell a piece with Beall wax until I solve the problem.

[Barry Elder]

I can't give the answer to your question but you must remember that wax is not a sealant. It is merely another coating and it is porous.

[David Wilhelm]

I don't have the answer as i've not had this problem. I've carried item from the shop in lite, rain and had to towel off water and not noticed any spotting. One thing I'd like to offer is it may not be the wax but the water that may be different and causing the issue? Not everyones water is the same.

[Ben Gastfriend]

The wax does give a nice finish, really warm where you want to pick it up. But it's not that durable. You can see fingerprints on it, scratches into it, and yes... water spots. Something that is going to be out on a table and "used" rather than sitting in a display cabinet: I use minwax wipe-on poly. Very high grit of micromesh between each coat.

[Bob Hamilton]

I wonder if it makes a difference if you use another finish on the bowl before buffing. I had the same experience with a box elder bowl that got a few snowflakes in it on the way in from the shop. Everywhere a snowflake had landed I got a dull spot. I had used the Beall buffing system on the bare wood. Maybe it wouldn't be as bad if there were another finish underneath the wax.

Bob

[Bernie Weishapl]

I have found it doesn't make any difference what finish I have underneath. If carnuba wax get water on it, it has water spots. I quit using it on the buffing system. I have started using Renaissance wax because it won't show finger prints like carnuba wax. If it ever rains again I want to see what happens if it get some drops on a piece.

[Dick Strauss]

Bernie,
I'm with you. I've had problems with wax spotting over Minwax brushing lacquer and Minwax antique oil.

Thanks for the tip on Renaissance wax. It looks like it is a paste wax.

Do the HUT waxes have the same issue?

[Maylon Harvey]

This was over MinWax Antique Oil. Bernie, thanks for the tip ,I'll try the Renaissance wax.

[Doug Reesor]

Maylon,

Being a Materials Engineer, your question peaked my curiosity since waxes are generally considered to be hydrophobic (water resistant which is why they bead in the rain) and inert (they don't react with anything). It is possible that everyone's experience with Carnauba wax is correct. Wax will flake easily resulting a porous coating which allows water through it unless it has been fully melted. I understand that Carnauba wax is one of the highest melting temperature natural waxes (~180F) so it will require more heat (or elbow grease) from the application process to fully melt and give a uniform coating. While partial melting may give the appearance of a full coating, it will not be sufficient to give you the desired protection. Because the melting point is below the boiling point of water, it is also easy to remove quicking with a kettle of water and it will not stand up to washing.

Applying a coating without getting sufficient friction between your bowl and the applicator will result in an inconsistant coating and leave pathes for the water through the wax. The water will react with the wood underneath so the only way to fix it is remove all the wax and start again. It is also the reason other lower melting point waxes may seem more protective since they are easier to melt and apply. I suggest you try applying more pressure to you work piece during buffing and seeing if that makes a difference.

The comment that waxes are not sealants is also valid since the hot wax will not likely penetrate the wood and create a chemically hard surface as sealants do.

Good Luck & Cheers,

Doug

[Dick Strauss]

I just got a note back from JR Beall. Beall's service has always A-1 top notch in my book! He replied that it is a common problem that he has encountered. He said that he didn't have any customer complaints from the issue when he sold craft items at shows.

I have no doubt that I applied the wax in significant enough amounts with plenty of friction to completely protect the pieces.

I'm tempted to try car wax since it never fogs with exposure to water, is durable, and does not show fingerprints. I'll have to check to see what petroleum distillates are used in car wax as a spreading agent to make sure that it won't interfere or harm various finishes.

[Maylon Harvey]

Doug,
I appreciate your very informative reply.
I think I was getting sufficient friction and heat when applying the wax cause the wood was getting so hot it was uncomfortable to hold on to and I was worried the heat was going to crack the bowl. I plan on wearing light cloth gloves in the future. But next time I will see if I can maybe use a little more friction and generate more heat.

Dick,
Thanks for passing on the info from JR Beall. At least I'm not alone with the problem. And please let us know what your car wax research turns up.

[Bernie Weishapl]

One thing I am going to try is a tip Cindy Drozda and Bonnie Klein gave me. Bonnie said she uses neutral/clear shoe polish on a lot of her turnings and it seems to work quite well. She said it is a mixture of different waxes. Cindy said after Bonnie told her about it she uses it on her finials and other turnings. So I am going to give it a go. Bought some at Wal-mart tonight. I am going to try it on bare wood and over different finishes.

[Maylon Harvey]

Bernie,
Can't wait for your results

[Shane Whitlock]

... Bonnie said she uses neutral/clear shoe polish on a lot of her turnings and it seems to work quite well. She said it is a mixture of different waxes. Cindy said after Bonnie told her about it she uses it on her finials and other turnings. So I am going to give it a go...
Never heard of that one ... I look forward to your results Bernie.