Rigid 12" SCMS feedback

[Scott Haddix]

Just an FYI. yesterday I went to the borg to purchase a 10" Makita dual-bevel Sliding Compound Miter Saw and looked at the Rigid 12" SCMS while I was there. They were identically priced, and the Rigid had some nice features, so I purchased it instead.

Today I took the Rigid back and purchased the Makita.

While I liked most aspects of the saw, I did a couple of test cuts and the saw felt flexible. So I put an 11" board on the saw, extended the blade out to the end of the board, put slight pressure to the left, did a cut, extended saw again, slight presure to the right, recut, and noted between a 1/32 and a 1/16 movement in the cut.

I have 5 or 6 other Rigid power tools that I've been very happy with, but this one had to go back.

I haven't done a test drive on the Makita yet, but based on feedback I've read here, my expectations are high.

Scott

[Scott Haddix]

Well, after doing the same test on the Makita, I encountered an almost identical movement between the two cuts.

For those of you with SCMS's, is this just a fact of life with these tools? Does anyone have a SCMS, either 10" or 12", that doesn't exhibit this behavior?

I took the Makita back to the store as well. If I cannot trust the cut, the tool is useless to me, but I'm really disappointed. I can use a cross-cut sled on my TS, but that just isn't always as convenient.

- Scott

[Dave Sweeney]

Your's is not the first comment I've read about that identical problem with the Ridgid slider.

[Jim O'Dell]

That troubles me about the Makita. It was first on my list until the great deal came up on the Hitachi (second on my list). I have a feeling they are all the same, but don't have any wood that size to make a test cut. How did it cut if you didn't put side pressure on it? I understand your test, but wonder if in normal cuts if that is really a problem.
Well, you can try the Hitachi and the Bosch. If neither of them pass your test, the Kapex (sp?) should be here by the end of the summer. :) Jim.

[Art Mann]

You don't have to do a trial cut or even buy the saw. Just push the blade from side to side on the display model in the store. They all do that. Same thing for non-sliders. For that matter, you can flex the blade back and forth that is mounted on your tablesaw. Thin metal is flexible. That does not mean that the saw won't cut straight. To do a reasonable test, make trial cuts as you normally would use the saw. I would be very interested to know how straight the Hitachi slider will cut under normal circumstances.

[Scott Haddix]

In terms of machines, I liked the way the Rigid felt (subjective...I know) the best. Even though I had the perception of more flex with the Rigid than I did with the Makita, the cuts both had an almost identical amount of error between the two.

When I compared the cuts themselves (since I did them side-by-side in the same scrap of wood, it was easy), I was surprised to see how much cleaner and smoother the Makita cut was than the Rigid. Whether this is all just down to the difference in the factory blades or something else, I cannot say. But, I thought it was worth noting.

However, if I was to decide to 'live with' the flex in the machines and just exercise more caution, I'd go back to the Rigid, since I'd be switching out the blade anyway. I like the depth stop mechanism on the Rigid a lot. The design of the hold down on the Rigid was definitely superior. For identical money, I liked the 12" capacity on the Rigid, and it was still light-weight enough I could move it around without issue. There were some other design aspects as well that I thought Rigid did a better job with as well.

Unfortunately, for your specific question, I did one test cut on the Makita, and that was it. At the point it failed the flex test, I was done and didn't bother to test further, since I knew the machine was going back. So I cannot really tell you much else. However, based on other threads, I know a lot of people who have great things to say about the Makita and the Hitachi saws.

Hope this helps.

[Scott Haddix]

I have no doubt the Makita and Rigid would both do a great job cutting straight lines if I was able to setup the machine and then consistently apply pressure to the handle on the sliding arm in the same way each time I use it.

Unfortunately, I know my skill level is not at that point. I'm going to arbitrarily apply slight pressure either left or right when I am sliding the saw arm back and forth between cuts, and I will get straight lines each time, but lines that will vary from my intended angle by enough to frustrate me when I get to assembly.

For me, the risk to my future projects exceeds my comfort level, especially when I am paying $500+ for the opportunity.

You did raise my curiousity though, so I went to the shop and did the same test on my 12" Delta miter saw (that I had intended to replace...), at least close a test as I could given the maximum depth of the cut on a 12" non-slider. With as much pressure as I'd ever do while normally using the machine to both the left and then to the right, I redid my earlier test. I did not produce more than a neglible amount of error, well below what I experienced with both of the the SCMS.

I'd be curious to hear how other people's experience has been with both sliders and non-sliders.

[Art Mann]

The reason I am anxious to hear about accuracy and cut quality from Jim's new Hitachi is I don't have a whole lot of confidence in any SCMS, but I need a saw to do 12" cross cuts.

[Jim O'Dell]

Don't wait for me!! :eek: I have enough irons in the fire that will keep me from doing the test.:D Plus the fact that I don't have any wide pieces of wood to cut at this time.
I suspect all SCMS units will display the same amount of movement. I also suspect that non sliders will fair much better. The slider is putting the saw out on a limb, so to speak. The further out, the more deflection it will have. That is a fact of nature that will not change. If you have enough money, you could design something heavy duty enough, and out of the best possible materials, that the movement will be neglegible. Most of us won't spend that type of money, so the manufacturers won't build it. I'd be interested in the new Kapex, and how it would test out. For the price it will command, I hope it will do a little better. But, even it will have some movement.
Oh, and the Makita is reported to have a very nice blade that makes the smooth cuts. Another reason it was #1 on my list. Using a similar quality 60 tooth blade should allow the same cut quality on any of the other saws. The Hitachi comes with a 40 tooth blade that will have to be replaced for finish cuts. It will work fine for rough cuts, and framing projects. Jim.

[Dave Trask]

I have had my Ridgid 12" slider for over a year and have made a lot
of cuts with it.

For the life of me I have never ran into this deflection issue?
Maybe it the way I handle the saw, maybe I just happen to have a saw
that for some reason or other just does not have that flex to it?

Yes, I am sure I could make it deflect if I wanted to.
But why would I want to do that? I want a good cut.

I do let the saw do the cutting, I do apply pressure in the same
planes that the saw is trying to cut. could that be the difference?

I am very happy with my Ridgid, I love the big table space on the saw.
The only Issue I had was the motor drive belt got a little loose one time
and it started to make a funny noise when first starting the saw, but that
was an easy fix with just a simple adjustment. ...ooh ...and the dust collection
bag is worthless which is the way with every miter saw I have owned.

[Bart Leetch]

My Craftsman 12" CMS has flex in the blade but that hasn't stopped me from making accurate cuts with it. Its not necessarily the tool but the person using it. If you expect every tool you use to be perfect you'll never make anything. I haven't found any tool to be perfect yet. Learn the limits of each tool & learn to work with it.

I switched from a left tilt contractors saw to a right tilt 1940 Unisaw. I came as a $250 saw with no fence or extension wings & green paint over rust & a three phase motor I cleaned it up & painted it & with the help of a friend built the extension tables & installed a new motor & Shopfox fence offset to allow moving the fence to the left of the blade for bevel cutting. It took quite a bit of tuning to get the saw so the fence would be straight on both sides of the blade so it would be safe to use but it is. Is it perfect NO...but I can make anything I want to using it.
If you want to you can make what ever you want with what you have for tools or what you can afford. Remember you won't always be able to afford exactly what you would rather have but will at one time or another have to make do with what you have or can afford.

You just have to wanna. If you don't wanna its not going to happen.