confused need advise on lasers

[Allen Isakson]

HI Fellow creekers, im new here but love the fact everyone helps each other with great advice and help when needed and the shareing of projects. By the way ive seen alot of awesome work here.

Im ready to buy a laser system and talking to reps is great but hey they are all trying to sell there machine and noone cant fault them for that.

I have been searching for a few months and was wondering if anyone has any advise on signwarehouse, trotec witch i seem to faver at this point and the price of brightstar is nice but im told the stepper motor thing and the glass tubes are not good. The rep i talk to is very nice but its a big investment and i want a dependable machine and willing to pay for it as in the long run i plan to reap the rewards. This machine is going to be used all day everyday except half of sat and sunday. Thats the plan anyway.
Another question is the speed thing brightstar is rated at 40 ips while trotec claims a waping 120. Is this overated or what. I am looking at a 6o watt unit.

Help and Thanks love this site

[Skip Weiser]

Hi Allen,

I would avoid Brightstar machines. It's not that they aren't a good machine, it's the fact that the LG900 60w model that they sell for $17,950 can be imported directly from WK Laser in China for under $5,000.00. I just think that they charge too much for an extra years warranty. They do have US tech support though. You could actually import 3 of them for less than they want for one. That's just my feelings on the issue. I realize they need to make a profit to stay in business, but I just think it's excessive.

I have the 80w LC6090 from the same manufacturer. They do use steppers and they do have the glass tube, so you can't really compare the Chinese lasers to a Trotec, Epilog, or Universal.

Universal is running a sale right now. You can get a V-460 60w 24" x 18" with the cutting table for $16,995. That's a heck of a deal. Tell you what, I'll sell you my 80w machine with a spare tube for $16,995. Can we make a deal? I want a Universal !!! LOL

Skip


V-460 with 60 Watts + Cutting Table - Features a 24"x18" work area, compatibility with all popular accessories & 10-60 Watt Rapid Reconfiguration Capability™.$16,995!

[Keith Outten]

Allen,

Mike Null owns a Trotec engraver has told me that his machine is in fact very fast. Remember that in order to take full advantage of the speed you need to purchase your new machine with the largest power supply you can afford. If you have to slow your machine down to engrave and cut due to the size of the power supply you haven't accomplished much. It has been suggested that you should purchase at least 60 watts in order to take advantage of the speed.

I use a Xenetech XLT-1325 60 watt at CNU that is rated at 150 IPS. It is very fast on many projects but I still have to slow it down for certain materials.

[Mike Null]

As a follow-up to Keith's remarks the Trotec Speedy 300 which is the one I have rasters at 140 ips. My old ULS rastered at 40 ips so I gained 3.5 times in speed. To Keith's point, I bought a 45 watt machine. If I would have recognized that I would "outrun" the power I would have bought a 60 watt version.

Even with that and the slower speed I have to use for some of my engraving I'm still more than twice as fast as before.

If I were buying another machine it would be a Trotec. I've yet to have an issue in over 18 months and I've still got more than a year left on my warranty.

Not intending to start an argument but when you talk about Mustangs and Camaros, if you put Trotec in the mix you should start talking about Mercedes.

(my old ULS was also a dandy and served me well for nearly 8 years)

[Scott Shepherd]

Mike, your new Trotec is certainly faster than your 8 year old ULS. That's not a fair comparison to make when talking to people about the speed. That's like saying "My new 500 HP Mustang is faster than my 300 HP 1999 Mustang". A better, more fair comparison would be between the new Trotec and the new ULS. I'm certain the Trotec would be a little faster, but hardly the difference between the old ULS you had.

We need to compare apples to apples.

Also, I'll voice my opinion once again about steppers versus servos. I'll put the speed, reliability, and maintenance of my ULS stepper motors up against the servos any day. It may not beat the Trotec, but my guess is it'll smoke everything else out there. It's very fast and in the 6 months we've had it, it's required no maintence and it's never scrapped a part due to a dirty encoder strip. I've never had to remove a cover to clean an encoder strip (because it doesn't have one). Do a search on the forum for encoder strip and see all the issues people have with them. We don't have any of those issues.

There's so much more to buying a laser than "Which laser should I buy".

It has a lot to do with what you plan to do with it, will it be full or part time, what's your customer base, what's your budget, what's your experience level, what level of support do you expect or need, etc. There are at least a dozen questions anyone would need to know the answer on before anyone would be able to recommend ANY machine.

[Mike Null]

Scott

The comparison was indeed fair in that I was pointing out the need to increase power as you increase speed or you won't get the full benefit of the speed. I also very clearly called out that it was 8 years old.

You will find no place in any of my posts where I've had anything but good to say regarding ULS.

I would not let stepper vs. servo be a determining factor in buying a machine because I agree that the steppers perform very well.

Just for the record, Xenetech, at 150 ips is the fastest machine I've seen with the Trotec second.

[Allen Isakson]

Thanks for all your comments. Keith do you have any probs with you xlt-1325? 60 watt is the least power i would go. Anyone have any dealings with sign warehouse as they have offered one of the best deals to me. The universale seems to be a good deal on sale now but im still impressed with the trotec and what the sales rep had to say about it.
Also Scott your absoluty right so many questions when considers the purchas of a laser system. sometimes talking to others helps to come up with the questions. You mentioned what the use of the machine would be:

Full time business
wood sign and engravings, acrylics, tile photo work, marble and im sure much much more sence we are new and will be discovering all the wonderful things this machine can do. As i said before seem alot of cool stuff and where i live i have great resorces for materals at very minimal cost that gives me more money in my pocket. they say that the imagination is the only limet to this business so therefore with me it is endless.
Thanks for all the advise

[Scott Shepherd]

Mike, I agree, you have to increase power with speed, however you still can't compare two machines 8 years apart and mention how one is 3.5 times faster. I would expect it to be a lot faster.

Allen, if you plan to use it for a full time business, I'd start by offering up the advice that you need to compare service over most other features. If you'll be depending on it full time, you certainly won't be able to afford it going down and having to wait days to contact someone, or weeks to get a part, or a month to get the issue resolved.

These days most of the big companies work like car dealerships. They start replacing parts until something fixes the problem. Some times it's the first part you replace, some times it's the 3rd part. If you are depending on the machine to make a living, you'll probably want that process to be days, not weeks.

I thought my computer was down several weeks ago and I had a panic attack. I can't imagine having my laser down for a week or even weeks waiting for parts. I'd be out of business or at a minimum, out of a paycheck for that month. Neither of which are options I'd like to explore.

[Allen Isakson]

I totally agree with you scott downtime can cost way to much. so the question is how is the service you get from universal ? Is the service related from your sales rep or is it a seperate thing. I called universal and they were fast in getting me samples and info on the different systems. When i called the sell rep they fell short of duty. If im selling something that cost that much money i would stay on top of things. Its seems many people on here have uls and seems pleased with them...that does say alot I dont want the downtime for sure.

[Scott Shepherd]

I wouldn't know how Universal's service is because I haven't had to use them (which speaks volumes to me). However, I can speak extensively about Epilog's service because I had to use them weekly.

All the service and 98% of the support will come from the factories of those companies. I'd also take a best guess to say that most people never call their sales rep after the sale. There's really no reason to. Most sales reps (with the exception of the few on here) are sales people. They can do some things and show you some demos, but if you want to get to the nitty gritty of applications or support, you won't be calling the sales rep. Of course, there are exceptions and I'm sure someone on here has a top notch tech guru for a sales rep who stops by all the time, or calls frequently.

Find a machine that suits your business and if you have to grit your teeth through the sales process, then do it. I was under the impression that people like us deserved random visits and phone calls from sales reps, but apparently that's not the case. Not just with me, but with a lot of other people who have lasers of all makes. Don't be surprised if you don't get a Christmas card, and don't be surprised if you see your rep at a trade show and they don't know who you are :)

I had problems with our last unit and in all the problems we had, never once did we see a visit from the rep. until he came to pick it up and take it back. A good 6 months worth of problems and no visits, no nothing. Expect that from most reps.

[Sandra Force]

Alan, Where are you located at? That can affect some things. If you are in an area served by the Brewers I would be talking to them. They are great people and can guide you in the best direction for you. If you are in another area check with people who have lasers in the state. You may find someone who is willing to let you come in a see what they use and why they prefer it. I take calls from people looking at Kern lasers and if you are willing to go to the high end stuff they are excellent and their service is great but don't expect to get into one for the same price as less industrial types.;)

It might also be worth your time and money to travel to the ARA show in Las Vegas at the end of the month to view a number of machines in a short period of time and be able to talk to a lot of engravers.

[salim nirjhor]

HI Fellow creekers, im new here but love the fact everyone helps each other with great advice and help when needed and the shareing of projects. By the way ive seen alot of awesome work here.

Im ready to buy a laser system and talking to reps is great but hey they are all trying to sell there machine and noone cant fault them for that.

I have been searching for a few months and was wondering if anyone has any advise on signwarehouse, trotec witch i seem to faver at this point and the price of brightstar is nice but im told the stepper motor thing and the glass tubes are not good. The rep i talk to is very nice but its a big investment and i want a dependable machine and willing to pay for it as in the long run i plan to reap the rewards. This machine is going to be used all day everyday except half of sat and sunday. Thats the plan anyway.
Another question is the speed thing brightstar is rated at 40 ips while trotec claims a waping 120. Is this overated or what. I am looking at a 6o watt unit.

Help and Thanks love this site

Love you all. For a long time I am being read post and study from sawmillcreek. I am from Bangladesh. Where laser is a few used technology.
I have a handicraft factory here. We do our production by scrollsaw, router, planner,sander etc.After a long time of ovserbation when I decided to buy a laser I talk two of rep. Laserpro & Epilog but their demand are too high (almost double)compared sales price oversease. Thats why i like to puchase chinese rabbitlaser 6090SE round my budget. Is that a wise dicision or I have to do something else? Please suggest me.