Which cabinet saw?

[Billy Dodd]

I posted if there was a difference between a contractor saw and a cabinet saw here a week or so ago. The responce got me to thinking about upgrading to the cabinet saw but which one. I hear bad things about the powermatic on the finewoodworking site in user reviews which I wouldn't think should happen for such an expensive saw. Grizzly is just 70 miles away and they have severaldifferent versions of cabinet saws. I'm not sure where to get a unisaw or if that is an option.
Any sugestions on a good cabinet saw worth the money and where to find it. I hate to shell out 2500 but if it's really all that much better and worth it I probably could go it.

[Grant Forbes]

I have the Grizzley 1023SL and love it.

[Lance Norris]

You will find many people happy with the Grizzly 1023. I feel its a great value for the money. The cabinet saw idea has been around for a long time and has been pretty well figured out. You wont go wrong with a cabinet saw from any of the major manufacturers; Delta, General, Grizzly, Jet, Shop Fox, Powermatic, Steel City, Sawstop. Where you need to look a little closer at each is, fence design, dust collection, riving knife or splitter, power switch location and the added technology of the Sawstop. You wont come anywhere close to a Sawstop for the $2500 you mention, but you wont have to spend that to get an excellent saw that will last a lifetime. $1500 is a good start for a new saw.

[Don Morris]

I like Grant have the 1023SL and love mine too. Biggest bang for the buck. In my opinion it's a Unisaw semi-clone. But if money were no consideration and safety were the overall driving force, obviously the Sawstop is the choice. The riving knife is not going to be an option in the future from what I understand, it will be a requirement of all saws in the future at some date (which I forget). I couldn't let $$$ not be a guiding point in my decision, I'm retired military...lot's of gold on sleeve, little in pocket. You're going to have to let you're pocket and your conscience be your guide on that one.

[scott spencer]

I've used a Jet and a Grizzly 1023, and wouldn't hesitate to buy either one. I also wouldn't hesitate on a deal from any that Lance mentioned, and I'd add Shop Fox (a sister company to Grizzly) and General International to the mix.

The 1023 is often considered the best bang for the buck. It's typically mail order for most folks but your location is a plus. Any current sales prices on the others would have my attention as well.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[John Keeton]

I recently went through the same research process and ended up with the 1023SLW and love it. Great fence and a lot of saw.

[Lee Koepke]

another 1023'er .... I use my Grizzly in my basement shop. I am not a HEAVY user, thus the lower cost made sense, and from what I can tell so far, I expect that thing to last quite awhile for me.

I guess it would depend on your use as well.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Billy, I own a General 650 which I really like.

The newer 650 will aparently have a riving knife this year, which would be a must for me if I were buying a new saw.

Why do I like the General? Quality, accuracy, smoothness, fit and finish, and it's made in Canada.

I added a Merlin removable splitter, and an Excalibur overarm guard. I wouldn't be without an overarm guard, it allows you to keep the guard on for non through sawing operations such as dadoing, rebating and grooving, and provides great dust pickup from above the blade.

Have fun, chose wisely and hopefully it will be your last saw purchase.

Regards, Rod.

[Mike Cutler]

Billy

I don't own a Griz', in fact I've never seen one, but if I could pick up the saw at the store, and return it to the store if something was wrong. I'd be looking at the Grizzly saws.
I've bought all of my machines from local "brick and mortar" stores just for this reason. I don't want to deal with shipping a machine back and forth.

Most of the negative posts I've seen for machines seem to point to the shipping/handling as the main culprit of the problems. That won't be an issue for you. You can literally inspect the machine in the parking lot.

[Larry Fox]

If I were in your shoes right now a SawStop would be the front-runner with anything else being a distant second. Others are great saws (I have a Uni and love it) but the safety features of the saw vs the cost are jsut way too compelling.

[Joe Little]

I agree with Mike. After doing all my research I just ordered my first cabinet saw, a ShopFox, from our local family owned hardware store. It did not rank as high as others I looked at and I paid a little more for it but there is something to be said for shopping locally and supporting the small community I live in. I too am self-employed and rely heavily on the community I live in. I buy local whenever I can.

[Dave Verstraete]

I agree with Mike. After doing all my research I just ordered my first cabinet saw, a ShopFox, from our local family owned hardware store. It did not rank as high as others I looked at and I paid a little more for it but there is something to be said for shopping locally and supporting the small community I live in. I too am self-employed and rely heavily on the community I live in. I buy local whenever I can.

I'm in agreement with Mike and Joe. BUY LOCAL if you can afford to. That being said, I have a PM66 and love it. I bought it 10 years ago and haven't looked back. The Sawstop (because of the safety issue) is the only saw that I would consider if I sold it.

[Jim Kirkpatrick]

Lots of opinions here! My .02: For the money and quality, you can't beat the Unisaw with 50" Bies. fence. It's the industry standard. You can get a knock off for less, but for just about the price of a PM2000 or sawstop, I got this Unisaw plus a Grizz. 8" Jointer (which I love and is a bargain!). Woodworkers Supply (http://woodworker.com/cgi-bin/FULLPRES.exe?PARTNUM=961-430&CARTID=200801084491283059--1)sells for $1699, free mobile base and $20 shipping with lift gate service. ( I got Left tilt item # 961-430 ) No regrets! And great service including the door to door shipping. The guy wheeled it right into my shop. But if money's no object, then the PM2000 and I'd certainly take a hard look at Sawstop.

[Mark Roderick]

There are a handful of good brands, including both Grizzly and Powermatic. Put on a blindfold, spin yourself around, and throw a dart. You'll be happy with your choice.

With all due respect to everybody, when you're making a decision like this do NOT rely on anecdotal user comments you read on internet bulletin boards. They are almost totally random and unreliable. Reviews in reputable woodworking magazines are much more reliable.

It's one thing to ask people "Does the power switch on the Powermatic get in your way?" or "Have you had a hard time getting parts for the Grizzly?" Answers to those questions from individual users are meaningful. Answers to the broad question "Which one is best?" just aren't meaningful for a whole range of reasons. Among other things, you're implicitly asking people to compare, say, six machines, and almost nobody who's responding to your question has had any meaningful experience with more than one of them! Also, every company sells lemons now and again, and the anecdotal responses you get on an internet bulletin board are almost guarantied to reflect more of the lemons than the non-lemons.

The good news is that (1) reliable reviews are available, and (2) all the machines are good and you'll be happy with any of them.

[John Hedges]

I hear bad things about the powermatic on the finewoodworking site in user reviews which I wouldn't think should happen for such an expensive saw.

I only saw 2 negative reviews out of 10. I wouldn't put too much stock into online reviews (look at amazon for ex). I have the PM2000 and love it. Wouldn't buy a new cabinet saw without a riving knife (especially now that I've used one.) The new General with a riving knife which is supposed to be coming out soon, would also be at the top of my list if I were buying today.

[Michael Gibbons]

Billy, I believe that Delta was the inventor of the cabinet saw design. I have a Unisaw and like it a lot. When I finally get my shop built, I'll upgrade to a Sawstop and not just for the safety features. I saw the Sawstop demonstration at my local Woodcraft and was really blown away by how smooth and quiet the saw is. Plus I think the table is a bit bigger which makes it a heftier saw.

[Pat Germain]

I'd really like to have a riving knife on my next saw. I also like Shop Fox machines. Anyone know if Shop Fox makes a saw with a riving knife? I wasn't able to find one on their web site.

[Bryan Rocker]

I love my Delta X5 left tilt with a 50" Bies fence. Timberline delivered it to my doorstep for $1,500. I wouldn't hesitate to buy from them again.

As to the contractor/cabinet saw. Once you go 220V you won't want to go back.

[Brian Kent]

Shop Fox makes a 12" table saw with riving knife for about $2600. Grizzly also has a 10" with riving knife for $1695, whether 3 HP or 5 HP.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I can tell ya this: I've seen the work produced by guys with Jet, Griz, Delta, PM, Felder, MM, and even ( dare I say it) Royobi.

It has occurred to me more than once that it's the man not the tool. The man appreciates a good tool & he overcomes a lesser one.

So buy the best you can and don't worry so much about it

[Rich Schneider]

I haven't read the Fine Woodworking reviews on the Powermatic, but I can say that I have a PM2000 that I bought a couple years ago and it has been great (I had two Delta Unisaws that I ended up selling after I bought the Powermatic) I wrote a review of it that you can read on Amazon. The SawStop is also a good quality saw in its construction from the times I have used one. As far as the safety feature of the SawStop I think it is a very fine idea but I have so many other pieces of equipment in my shop that are equally as dangerous as my tablesaw. To me safety is function of three things...first and foremost the operator's techniques/control, second the equipment setup/tuning, and third the safety features/guards. The guards and safety features are there to protect the operator in the event of an error in technique or a lapse of judgement. Marc Adam's safety video is really good and something like it should be delivered with every piece of equipment sold. I don't think you would go wrong with either unit whether it is the Powermatic 2000 or the SawStop.

[Peter Quinn]

Very happy PM66 owner here. I'm guessing any body having a problem with their PM66 is also having issues with tying shoes, walking and talking, and remembering their own name. These are fine machine worth the price of admission. The PM2000 has some nice features I'd love to have so when my 66 dies in 125 years or so I'll probably get one!

That said I have worked on a uni-saw and it is also a fine machine. I picked the PM66 because I like the sound it makes better than the delta. Very petty. Completely irrelavent to performance but thats my reason.

I have never used a grizzly saw but own several other pieces of their equipment and they all perform well. Every piece of grizzly equipment I have used is what I would call a reasonable trade off. Grizzly is able to cheapen their equipment in ways that tend not to affect performance but annoy me; a plastic handle here, an annoying part there, an adjustment screw placed where a third hand is neccessary to reach it. This statement will annoy the 'Grizzly Crowd' who are very loyal and happy at the value they have achieved. I invite them to enjoy and use their machines.

I'm guessing establishing a good relationship with a local vendor is a good idea. Beyond that any one of these machines will last your lifetime, so get your best eni-mini-miny-moe going and pick one.:D:D:D

[Roger Bull]

I replaced my saw with a SawStop in December. In addition to the safety features, it is a very impressive saw. As far as I am concerned it is the best available. It oozes quality.

It is more than the $2500 you mention but how much is the safety worth to you? Yes, there are a lot of tools that want to eat you but one less in the shop is a good thing.

SawStops are only sold through authorized dealers so you may need to go to sawstop.com to find one in your area.

Good luck,
-Roger

[John Yogus]

Not sure if you're close to Pittsburgh, but email this guy if you are cbaird@steelcitytoolworks.net. I can't take credit for discovering this guy, it came from another on this forum. As of earlier this week, he had a steel city cabinet left for $1000.

[Billy Dodd]

The thing on the grizzly I wasn't sure about was the weight and the fence. I know nothing about the shopfox fence and I believe the grizzly is the lightest in the cabinet saw class. I want to be able to flop a sheet of plywood on the table and push it through without having to worry about the fence being knocked out of square.
I have other grizzly stuff and have been happy with their customer service. The 1066 sander I bought from them had a motor problem and a pilar block broke. They replaced both with no questions asked.
I live in between grizzly and a woodcraft store which I believe the woodcraft has the powermatic and jet. The sawstop I think is a little more then what I want to spend. I don't really play very safe. I'm one who has know idea where the blade guard went for the saw I have now.
And what kind of fence do you get? I always thought the bie*** (don't remember how to spell it) was the best. Now others are suppose to be just as good?

[Billy Dodd]

Just have the country away John

[Al Garay]

I have been thinking and tempted by cabinet saw. In fact, I can get the SteelCity 3hp Deluxe, 52" fence-rail with Titanium for around $1200. Too big for my 1-aisle garage shop. I also visited Grizzly and became concerned by the short 20-26" rip capacity of the 1023SL.

I recently bought a Makita 1013 slider that's on its way to do cross cuts and have been thinking of buying the Rousseau miter saw stand that comes with a nice fence and stop gauge. And then getting a Sunhill hybrid (same as the Woodtek that was well received and GI hybrid except it has a cheaper aluminum fence) but I can get it for $630 total. That's too tempting.

Use my Makita 1013 slider and Festool TS55+MFT1080 table for crosscuts and the Sunhill hybrid saw for repetitive cuts and rips.

I have almost $2k to spend and it is also tempting to just buy the Powermatic PM2000.

Decisions.

[Jim Andrew]

I have a uni and like it very much, no comparison to the old craftsman I had before. Course it was a 40 year old contractor style, with a old style unisaw fence. Which of course was much better than the original fence. Thought I read somewhere that the gov had passed a law that all new tablesaws sold after some date have to have the riving knife? That true? Anyway, I went to my local hardware store, she called Delta and they gave me a hardware show price with no freight that saved about 700$ over the amazon price. It came with 2 sets of rails, as I wanted the 50" and had to make a new tableboard, as it came with the 30" and the table board wasn't big enough. Good luck with your purchase!