Questions for minimax combo owners..

[Bob Antoniewicz]

I am moving machines into the new shop, and have been trying to think through the dust collection. I have a MM 300 Smart, and am wondering where to bring up the duct from the floor to the ceiling. I am thinking about 4' from the end of the machine and just to the outside of the side of the machine (if that makes any sense).

What do you think? What do you do?

Also, how much room do you leave between the sides of the machine and the nearest objects?

Also, if you've had issues with somewhat warped fences (crosscut fence in my case) what have you done to get by?

Thanks in advance!

Bob A.

[Jim Becker]

Relative to the clearance around the machine, the "published" rule of thumb is 8' surround, but the realistic space you need in each of the four directions is more flexilble. You obviously need more clearance in the two directions that follow the movment of the slider on the saw function and that compliments the J/P portion. To the side of the J/P you can get away with less space, IMHO, but on the saw side I suggest you give yourself as much as you can relative to the kind of material you will be cross-cutting. If that's 8' sheet stock, you'll want 9-10' from the blade if you can do it so you can actually walk around the material when it's loaded on the outrigger. (that one is a problem for me in my shop and I actually have to duck under my outrigger when it's within a certain range of it's movement)

For the dust collection situation, consider two drops with a quick connect system. One for when you are using the Saw/Shaper and one for use with the Jointer/Planer. This will minimize tripping over a hose and you can still use the same hose for the drop. A 5" drop is typical, but you can also use a 6" drop. The hood connections on the machine are 120mm. You can use either a metal 5"-120mm reducer or as Sam Blasco recently turned me towards, a Fenco rubber sewer pipe connector that the 5" hose clamps OVER and the other side slips (tightly) onto the 120mm port. If you wan't need one of the 120mm metal adapters, you can acquire the one I am no longer using.

[Bob Antoniewicz]

Relative to the clearance around the machine, the "published" rule of thumb is 8' surround, but the realistic space you need in each of the four directions is more flexilble. You obviously need more clearance in the two directions that follow the movment of the slider on the saw function and that compliments the J/P portion. To the side of the J/P you can get away with less space, IMHO, but on the saw side I suggest you give yourself as much as you can relative to the kind of material you will be cross-cutting. If that's 8' sheet stock, you'll want 9-10' from the blade if you can do it so you can actually walk around the material when it's loaded on the outrigger. (that one is a problem for me in my shop and I actually have to duck under my outrigger when it's within a certain range of it's movement)

For the dust collection situation, consider two drops with a quick connect system. One for when you are using the Saw/Shaper and one for use with the Jointer/Planer. This will minimize tripping over a hose and you can still use the same hose for the drop. A 5" drop is typical, but you can also use a 6" drop. The hood connections on the machine are 120mm. You can use either a metal 5"-120mm reducer or as Sam Blasco recently turned me towards, a Fenco rubber sewer pipe connector that the 5" hose clamps OVER and the other side slips (tightly) onto the 120mm port. If you wan't need one of the 120mm metal adapters, you can acquire the one I am no longer using.

Thanks for the spacing suggestion. I figured complete displacement of the slider in both directions plus a couple of feet. And 8' on the saw side and 5' to the opposite side (measured from the saw blade) with 18" to 2' added each way. Your thoughts confirm mine (and I envy the woodworker that has the room for 8' all around!)

For the ducting: I hadn't thought of a QD duct. Where can I find those? Where do you bring the saw/shaper line down relative to the machine? You need to leave clear the path for 4x8 plywood, yes?

Thanks,

Bob A.

[Wayne Watling]

Hi Bob,

Is there anyway you can set up a temporary connection with some flex until you have had time to use the machine for a few months. That way you will get a better idea how best the machine works for you in that shop. I've been using mine now for just over a year with a temporary setup (due to shop fitout) and pretty much know what the best solution is for my usage and shop space but that might be different for you. In your situation is it going to be possible to move your machine around and to the side of the shop etc, if so then you might want to take that into account, thats one nice thing about these machines you can move them around and out of the way to gain precious shop space but even then still use the saw etc.

I'm going for 3 drops, one for the saw/shaper, one for the J/P/M and one for the saw guard. I'm going to bring the 2 main drops down the walls with a hook on the end of the flex so they can easily be hung back out of the way when not in use. The saw guard flex will drop down from the ceiling with a hook on the end.

There will be drops down the other two walls for other machines with a capped Y just in case I want to move the combo to a different temporary position at some point in the future.

Best,
Wayne

[Bob Antoniewicz]

Wayne,

I like that idea. There are a bunch of tools that need drops. But I do have a 25' piece of 6" flex. I'll need a couple of reducers and a 6" T or Y. But that shouldn't be a problem.

Kinda wanted to get this all outta the way and then do some WW'ing. I'll need to think about it a little.

Thanks!

Bob A.

PS - Where, relative to your machine, do you come down from the ceiling for the Saw/Shaper?

[Steven Wilson]

Bob,

I run a 6" main along the ceiling and then bring it down at the end of the combo where the cabinet split is between the shaper and the jointer. I terminate into a 6x5x5 wye with blast gates roughly 2 1/2' above the saw surface. I use Nordfab connections on the machine ends and for hose. The QF fittings on the hose allow me to build hose lengths necessary to accomplish certain tasks. Usually one gate controls flow to the saw blade guard and the other services the other ports (jointer, planer, shaper body, saw body, mortiser). When needed I can add in 10' extra hose to the saw cabinet, looping it over by the mortiser which gives a lot of free surface area to make cross cuts in 4x8 sheets. When I use the shaper I run two 5" lines, one to the shaper hood, one to the cabinet. I probably have pictures posted here or on the MiniMax group from a few years back that show the setup.

[Bob Antoniewicz]

Bob,

I run a 6" main along the ceiling and then bring it down at the end of the combo where the cabinet split is between the shaper and the jointer. I terminate into a 6x5x5 wye with blast gates roughly 2 1/2' above the saw surface. I use Nordfab connections on the machine ends and for hose. The QF fittings on the hose allow me to build hose lengths necessary to accomplish certain tasks. Usually one gate controls flow to the saw blade guard and the other services the other ports (jointer, planer, shaper body, saw body, mortiser). When needed I can add in 10' extra hose to the saw cabinet, looping it over by the mortiser which gives a lot of free surface area to make cross cuts in 4x8 sheets. When I use the shaper I run two 5" lines, one to the shaper hood, one to the cabinet. I probably have pictures posted here or on the MiniMax group from a few years back that show the setup.

Thanks. The pictures really help. I would love to go with the Nordfab stuff, but funding is limited. How do the QF fittings work? Is there a clasp or do they just snap together? I looked at the Oneida page, and couldn't make it out.

I like the flex arrangement Just move the pipe out of the way, and if you use a larger board, move it farther away. Simple.

Have you ever had problems with the fences being bowed? If so, how did you deal with it? My crosscut fence has a short section at the end that is bowed. It took me a while to figure that out. A small plywood sheet will rock a little on it and that makes heck outta doing the 5 cut square setup. I flipped the fence around because the other side is fairly straight, but I'd like to fix it and get it right one of these days. An alternative is to just cut it short - to the length of the outrigger or so - which will also solve the issue of walking into it which can be painful.

Bob A.

[Wayne Watling]

Have you ever had problems with the fences being bowed? If so, how did you deal with it? My crosscut fence has a short section at the end that is bowed. It took me a while to figure that out. A small plywood sheet will rock a little on it and that makes heck outta doing the 5 cut square setup. I flipped the fence around because the other side is fairly straight, but I'd like to fix it and get it right one of these days. An alternative is to just cut it short - to the length of the outrigger or so - which will also solve the issue of walking into it which can be painful.

Bob A.

Bob,

I'm not sure of your situation re warrenty but I asked them for a new fence when I noticed that the small crosscut fence had a bump in the middle. Within two weeks a new one arrived from Italy and it was couried directly to me all at no charge.

This was through Minimax Canada.


PS - Where, relative to your machine, do you come down from the ceiling for the Saw/Shaper?

The pipe will come down the wall behind the mortiser (in line with the jointer infeed table) and the flex will run across the floor to the saw/shaper connections on the machine. But this is really a decision that was made for me due to the large garage door that is directly in front of the sliding table and the back of the planer, I couldn't really bring the pipe down in front of the door so alot depends on the shop layout.


Best,
Wayne

[Jim Becker]

Bob, the Nordfab (or similar from other sources) is not that expensive if you only use it for your quick disconnect needs at the drops. Use regular spiral or snap-lock pipe otherwise to conserve cost. I use the Grizzly version for my two overhead "convenience" drops that handle my router station and drum sander, primarily. I only put the hose on when I'm actually going to use it.

[Jeff Wright]

I use the Norfab duct work and highly recommend it. I run an 8 inch from my dust collector reduced to six inches then reduce it at the machine (using flex hose) such that I can use the fernco plumbing rubber connectors to the machine - fits perfectly. I use one hose that is interchangeable between the saw and j/p. I have a 3-inch hose that drops from the ceiling right over the blade guard. It stays out of the way when cutting. One nice feature is I use the clamps that are designed to wrap the spiraling flex hose for an airtight fit. The same fernco connector is also used for my MM20 bandsaw. I cut it long enough to reach the bandsaw. All result in great dust collection. Let me know if you want some detailed pics. I am walking out the door right now and don't have time to post them.

[Steven Wilson]

Thanks. The pictures really help. I would love to go with the Nordfab stuff, but funding is limited. How do the QF fittings work? Is there a clasp or do they just snap together? I looked at the Oneida page, and couldn't make it out.

The QF fitting is a rolled over piece of metal. Two QF fittings come together with a clamp. The Nordfab fittings can be expensive, but you have a great deal of control over how many you need to use. Fortunately the machine fittings and the hose end fittings are fairly inexpensive. No need to go with Nordfab for all the drops in your shop just the ones, like the combo, that will be connected/disconnected often.


Have you ever had problems with the fences being bowed? If so, how did you deal with it?
No, I haven't I would contact MiniMax customer service.

[Bob Antoniewicz]

Thanks all for your ideas. I will continue to move machines in and think about this. I have a lot of pipe to install, and since ASTM 2729 is pretty cheap ($2.60/ft for 6" and $4.00/ft for 8" and the fittings are less than 1/3 of the Nordfab or Grizzly equivalent) I will almost certainly go with plastic. But I like the idea of going the last few feet with Nordfab.

Do any of you have experience hooking Nordfab to Plastic?

Let me know if you have any other suggestions. Jeff, if it isn't any trouble, please go ahead and post the pics.

Please keep the ideas coming!

Bob A.

[Jim Becker]

Bob, you should be able to come up with a method to mate the Nordfab quick disconnects to your PVC duct with a little creativity and possibly some minor sheet metal work. The main challenge is the differences in inside/outside diameters that you need to deal with. I can't say specifically what you need to do as I chose long ago to use metal duct, but like any "problem", there is usually a solution or three with a little thinking involved! You'll need to do something like this anyway as you can't get plastic in 5", so your 6" drops will need to be reduced at or near the machine/drop to accomodate the combo machine or anything else with 120mm hood ports. There are no 6"-5" reducers that I know of in plastic. 100mm ports will usually allow a good quality 4" flex hose to tightly slip over them...that's the case with my MM16 band saw.

[Jeff Wright]

Here's some pics of my norfab pipe and flex hose. I have one main coming off the collector starting with an 8 inch pipe with a 6-inch downpipe connected to that. Off of the 6-inch is a five inch that leads to a length of flex hose that connects to the saw or shaper or j/p (easily done since all are on the same side of the combo). Also coming off that 6-inch down pipe is a 3-inch flex hose that runs up to the ceiling and back down to the saw blade guard dust collector. And finally, that 6-inch down pipe coming from the 8-inch main is downsized to a Y that directs 2 4--inch flex hoses that go to my band saw, one to attach to the dust port and the other left available in case I am doing a lot of resawing and can lay that second 4-inch hose up on the saw table to collect additional dust. When not in use, I shut the gate on that side of the Y. All hose legs have gate valves that allow me to regulate air flow. (Photos follow also on my next post)

[Jeff Wright]

Here are a couple more photos of my set-up.

[Bob Antoniewicz]

Jeff,

Thanks for all the pictures. I really appreciate seeing the choices folks have made for their systems. Much better that having to imagine what I need to accomplish the hook-ups.

Best regards,

Bob A.