Installing crown moulding

[David Peacock]

I'm getting ready to install crown moulding and need help. All the outside corners are bullnosed. I can't find information on how to do these corners. Any help will be appreciated.

Dave

[Jamie Baalmann]

You will have to cut a small filler piece (Somewhere around 5 eighths of an inch inside dimension) that has two 22.5 degree angles on it and then cut the same on the two pieces coming into it.

[Mike Henderson]

I bought a book from this guy (http://www.compoundmiter.com/) and was able to do some very complex cathedral ceilings.

I agree with Jamie about how to go around bullnose corners.

Mike

[Paul Girouard]

Ya the multiple 22 1/2 deg. < , crown and base can be a PITA with round corners.

Another idea is some type of corner block with a finial. Some may not like that look , some do. YMMV but it is "another way" around a round corner.

[Steven DeMars]

Check out the Dewalt site . . . they have a lot of info on crown. Also this guys book is the absolute best. Available at LOWE'S or his website . ..

http://www.compoundmiter.com/

[Josiah Bartlett]

You have to be zen with the fact that your walls are not square, so the perfect angle isn't going to be a nice multiple of 45. I like to keep small offcut pieces around to test fit the angles before I cut them on a long piece of molding. For this reason I also like to cope the inside corners instead of mitering them.

[ken gibbs]

Just remember to make all cut upside down and backwards. Then get a lot of plastic wood and fix the gaps;).

[Bill Pealer]

The BORG has some flex molding but I think it is special order.

[Prashun Patel]

David-

If it were me, I'd make a built up crown. This technique'll work best if you're gonna paint, since there will be some seams to caulk. I did this in a condo a while back and it worked beautifully.

1) At the outside corners, use 4-6" lengths of stock cove molding (or make yr own) upside down and vertical so the cove mates to the bullnose. This will convert yr bullnose to a 90deg sq corner.
2) Run a 4-6" wide piece of 3/8" - 3/4" stock (batten) around the room on the wall butted up to the ceiling. At outside corners, butt the batten up to the inverted coves from (1)
3) Attach yr crown moulding to the batten.

Choose your batten stock to match the width of the corner coves yr gonna make. Choose the width of the batten to provide a minimal reveal after the crown's on.

[Matthew Voss]

22 1/2 deg around the corner. Preassemble wherever possible.

[Jamie Baalmann]

A side note when doing the 22.5 method there will be small gaps between the crown and wall it is usually just caulked and painted to match the wall unless its painted crown then you could paint it that color. The inside dimension I gave is just a guess you'll have to play with it a little.

[Greg Crawford]

One thing I learned on my current crown job is that a nailing strip helps secure the molding. Just a 1x2 or something similar run in the corner. This way you don't have to worry about a nail holding in sheet rock or looking for a stud.

For the bull-nose corners, just devote a few pieces to test cuts until you find what works.

I also got the Milescraft crown molding jig, which lets you cut the molding in the same position it will be installed. It took a little getting used to, and I wrapped masking tape around it to hold the spring angle braces in the right slots (it kept unfolding whenever I'd move it), but it really worked fairly well and I've managed not to cut into the jig so far. Cutting the molding flat with the different bevel angles and miter angles might be great for a perfect world, but I couldn't get it to work.

Be patient and walk away for a while when it's getting too frustrating, and WATCH YOUR FINGERS AROUND THE BLADE!

[Chris Padilla]

Look at my sig.... :)

Also, it never hurts to build up a mock-up ceiling/outside corner piece so that you can look at it from different angles and you can have it right there next to your miter box in your shop. This avoids walking back and forth or making a million cuts in the area where the crown goes and making 1 million up the ladder, 1 million down the ladder treks and you try and perfect the cuts you need.

Finally, look at my sig! ;)

[frank shic]

check out the gary katz dvd on mastering crown molding..

[George Bowen]

To get the angles right and the filler piece right, take 2 pieces of scrap, back cut at 45* , then use another piece of scrap, hold perpendicular to the corner and slide the 2 side pieces up to it and glue, This will give you the exact size for the filler piece and you can use it to measure the exact length for the pieces leading to the corner as well. See attached

[Prashun Patel]

With due respect to these pros,
I wouldn't do 22.5deg on a bullnose corner. I tried that and it's murder getting a sliver like that lined up for this diyer.

Also, one more non-pro advice on crown molding: if yr painting it, use MDF. It machines better than wood in this case and the seams'll be invisible. It also conforms to wall/ceiling irregularities better than wood and won't expand/contract as bad.

Only down side is that it's floppy. I tack finish nails along the bottom edge on the wall as '3rd hands'.

- s

[Dennis Putnam]

Don't believe any of them. Installing crown is a black art. It requires you to think upside down and backwards, which only a twisted mind can do. :)

[Chris Padilla]

In a nutshell, if the crown is to be painted, you can get away with a lot of bad fitting joints using putty, spackle, and caulk in clever ways.

It is the non-painted wood crown molding jobs that take some real heart to tackle for the DIYer but watching the pros do it can be a magical experience.

[Mike Vermeil]

Dennis - you've got plenty of advise here, but I've hung a ton of crown molding around bull-nose corners so I can't help myself from chiming in.

1) The outside corners are NOT hard to do, they just take patience & experience (assuming you have reasonable skills). The "slivers" are wider than you think they'll be on normal 90 degree corners (45 degree corners are another story as the "sliver" is much more narrow).
2) Use test pieces to find the right angle at every corner, as it is almost never exactly 22.5.
3) It's much easier to fine tune the miters if you lay the crown flat on a coupound miter saw, and I find the cuts to be more true on a sliding saw. Even good blades tend to "walk" when plunging into the flat of a board on an angle.
4) Use MDF when at all possible. It's mills like butter, takes paint well & doesn't cost much if you have to throw away a piece or two.
5) The last one is completely my opinion: forget about coping - it's a waste of time with MDF & modern glues, and is hard to tune.

[Jamie Baalmann]

To get the angles right and the filler piece right, take 2 pieces of scrap, back cut at 45* , then use another piece of scrap, hold perpendicular to the corner and slide the 2 side pieces up to it and glue, This will give you the exact size for the filler piece and you can use it to measure the exact length for the pieces leading to the corner as well.


I'll have to try this why didn't I think of that. Great idea George

[Matthew Voss]

Dennis - you've got plenty of advise here, but I've hung a ton of crown molding around bull-nose corners so I can't help myself from chiming in.

3) It's much easier to fine tune the miters if you lay the crown flat on a coupound miter saw, and I find the cuts to be more true on a sliding saw. Even good blades tend to "walk" when plunging into the flat of a board on an angle.

5) The last one is completely my opinion: forget about coping - it's a waste of time with MDF & modern glues, and is hard to tune.

I have to disagree with these two points. Definitely easier to adjust angles when cutting in position.

#5 - I don't think this is very good advice. Coping is not that hard - with mdf the saw blade will move through the material with less effort than wood. If your concerned about damaging the edge, stay about 1/16" away from the profile and sand to the line. The problem with mitering an inside corner is not the glue joint. When you nail the ends into an out of square corner, the force will push the joint open. Not a waste of time. Take the extra time - you'll be happier with the room in the end.

[Dennis Putnam]

1) I've had some success with outside corners but they are never square so get out the caulk.
2) I usually don't have that much scrap to do test pieces. Besides, using scrap assumes I can reproduce all the same angles after moving the blade.
3) Ha! Fine tune? What does that mean? I'd be happy with reasonably close. :(
4) Actually I've given up on crown completely. It is much less frustrating to hire someone adept in the black arts. As for MDF, I haven't seen crown in MDF and I haven't seen anyone glue crown but either way, I'm sure I'd get just as frustrated. I think my problem is that I simply cannot visualize in 3 dimensions. I don't have a problem coping base board even in the worst corners because that is all 2 dimensional thinking.

My only saving grace is that I have mostly worked where crown was already installed. I simply cut off the corners of the old pieces, carefully mark them and then put them back in the same place. After that all the crown is straight cuts. I just have to make sure my remodeling doesn't create new corners. :)

Personally, I think crown molding is a vast conspiracy against DYI'ers by those dabbling in the black arts. Otherwise, carpenters would make square corners and the pre-made corners would work.

[Chris Padilla]

LOL...such a cynic, Dennis! ;) :D

I actually installed some crown in my bathroom (4 inside corners) UPSIDE down at the insistence from my wife that it looked better. It turned out okay...thank god it was painted because it ended up being made more of caulk and spackle than MDF.... ;)

[BOB OLINGER]

David,

I'm about 3/4 through in putting up about 900 ft.of oak crown molding in our home. I was planing to miter the inside and outside joints when I was introduced to a guy that make finials for both inside and outside corners. I will tell you, assuming you like their look, they save lots of hours and attempts to fit miter joints, as all your cuts (except splices) are straight, plus look good. They aren't cheap - the guys an older retiree, but I'm very glad I went that route. Of what wood is your crown? If you'd like, PM me and I'll send more info including the guys address - he makes custom, so he'll also need to know what style of crown your using.

[BOB OLINGER]

David,

I tried to reply yesterday, but don't see my answer, so here it is again. I'm about 3/4 done with installing about 900' of oak crown. I was all set to miter the joints when i was introduced to a guy who made finials for outside and inside corners. They were a little pricey, look a little different, but save hours and hours of cutting and fitting miters; you only end up with doing straight cuts (except for and splices). If you'd like to pursue, send me a PM and I'll forward his name and address.

[Bob Moyer]

One thing I learned on my current crown job is that a nailing strip helps secure the molding. Just a 1x2 or something similar run in the corner. This way you don't have to worry about a nail holding in sheet rock or looking for a stud.

For the bull-nose corners, just devote a few pieces to test cuts until you find what works.

I also got the Milescraft crown molding jig, which lets you cut the molding in the same position it will be installed. It took a little getting used to, and I wrapped masking tape around it to hold the spring angle braces in the right slots (it kept unfolding whenever I'd move it), but it really worked fairly well and I've managed not to cut into the jig so far. Cutting the molding flat with the different bevel angles and miter angles might be great for a perfect world, but I couldn't get it to work.

Be patient and walk away for a while when it's getting too frustrating, and WATCH YOUR FINGERS AROUND THE BLADE!

Which way is the 1x2 positioned?