Way OT - Do any industries offer lifetime employment these days?

[Brian Elfert]

Are there any industries that offer lifetime employment these days? I don't mean a guaranteed job, but industries that are very consistent and don't hire and lay off folks constantly as business ebbs and flows.

I currently work in IT (Information Technology) and pretty much any company of any size has either an IT department or an IT person.

I work in the newspaper industry and the newspaper industry is going the way of the way of the horse and buggy it seems. The entire industry is losing revenue, but my employer is losing revenue much faster than other newspapers. A 3% layoff with wage freezes was announced today on top of 10% layoffs in the past year.

Maybe it isn't possible today, but it would be nice to find an industry where someone can basically have a job as long as they want one. Many folks in IT switch jobs every few years, but I would like a nice stable job. I know it will never be like our father's or grandfather's day when they had the same job for 30 or 40 years until retirement.

I would probably look for another job, but I have four weeks vacation after just seven years. A new job would mean I might be first out the door if there are layoffs there.

[Joe Pelonio]

Yes, actually.

I used to have that kind of job, stayed 17 years. That has it's own issues too, but yes, totally secure. Everyone puts in their 30+ years and retires, most there taking home more than they made working once Social Security kicks in.

It was a municipal utility district, governed by an elected board of directors, and of course, people will always use water and need the sewage treated. State law required them to be in the black, so if money runs short the rates are increased. Every range of jobs from engineers, clerical office, customer service, IT, carpenters, auto mechanics, laborers and on and on. (I was a management analyst).

[Brian Elfert]

I've thought about government work, but government jobs aren't always as secure as in the past.

Our state government has laid off quite a few people this decade with a $4.5 billion deficit a few years back. The governor would not allow tax increases. Congress likes to eliminate various programs and departments from year to year. Government jobs will probably shrink as Medicare and Social Security obligations grow.

[Joe Pelonio]

That's why I specified this one type. Cities and counties, even states, are subject o the economy. When homes values drop, and people stop spending, they lose tax revenue. The public agencies providing essential services like water and sewage treatment may not be totally exempt from economic influences, but are as close as it gets. The place I worked never had a layoff or hiring freeze in it's history, since 1923. When I left in 1992, there were 1,500 employees, currently 1,900. An entry level clerical position there pays $3,796/month with full benefits. The job I had back then is now at $6,532/mo.

[Gary Keedwell]

Many, many government jobs are secure...for instance...justice ..prison guards..
Gary

[Dennis Peacock]

Don't we all wish the IT industry was a stable job. Much of our IT work is now getting shifted to India and Poland. Then we wonder why the American economy is in the toilet.

I better hush before I get myself in trouble. :)

[Steven Wilson]

Nope, none left. Just assume that your employer will suck your brain for what you know and then toss you asside when you are of no value. The way to win is to make sure that you get more out of the job than you give your employer. Not just money, take advantage of training, certification training, networking, etc. Always have a resume that's relevant. Always look for that next job. You owe your employer nothing. It's just business, nothing personal.

[Phil Sanders]

Brian:

Excluding Doctors, Lawyers, Military, Plumbers, Post Office, and Government Employees then no.

By industry, I am presuming you mean like Auto, Appliance, Electronics, and so forth; the industry your employer is in. Industries are changing, or moving overseas to cheaper labor markets, and then moving again as other labor markets open up. Technology changes, so do companies and company management.

Example: Local telephone companies are hurting because of the Internet Phones and the Cell phones; technology changes. Here in Detroit area, people are dropping their land line phone since the cell phones work better and have less technical problems than dealing with the local Telco and static filled lines. (please note, I said technical problems, cell phone billing is another topic.)

You can only protect yourself, IMHO, by selecting a job field, or skill, and realize that you are only a replaceable cog in the company which you are currently working for. It may be cheaper to replace you than train you.

The reason IT people, including myself, change jobs so often is to gain experience with new ways of doing things. Every company solves similar problems with different means. You become loyal to your craft, trade, job skills, or area of expertise. You should expect that technology will overcome your knowledge every so many years, so you have to be on the look out that you don't become technologically boxed into dead end job skills. Dead end job skills which are obsolete and un-marketable to new employers.

Phil

[Matt Meiser]

The reason IT people, including myself, change jobs so often is to gain experience with new ways of doing things. Every company solves similar problems with different means. You become loyal to your craft, trade, job skills, or area of expertise. You should expect that technology will overcome your knowledge every so many years, so you have to be on the look out that you don't become technologically boxed into dead end job skills. Dead end job skills which are obsolete and un-marketable to new employers.

That is an excellent point. I've changed jobs less often than average, but working in consulting we are constantly doing new things rather than supporting the old stuff day in and out. We do some of that, but usually our customer takes over the day to day support and we move on to new projects

At my last job I interviewed many people who had 20+ years of IT experience--all on some obsolete system. Their salary expectations were that of a 20 year experienced individual, but their technical skills weren't as good as a recent college grad with good co-op experience.

[Terre Hooks]

Do any industries offer lifetime employment these days?


Yes.

Doctors. Nurses. Hospital Administrators.

Police officers. Firefighters. Politicians.

Grocery store workers. Sewer line installers. Septic tank installers.

Funeral Home directors. Embalmers. Casket makers. Grave diggers.

[Art Mulder]

Well the pay is lousy, but parenting is a pretty much lifetime job. :rolleyes:

Has anyone mentioned the Military? That's pretty permanent isn't it?

[Greg Peterson]

Lifetime employment options are becoming more of the exception than the norm. Publicly traded corporations are forced by investors to reduce expenses and increase profits. Private companies also realize a gain by moving production facilities into low cost labor markets.

As long as investors continue to demand historically high, short term returns on their investments, corporations will be forced to compete on two fronts; the market place and Wall Street.

Corporations that typically provided lifetime, multi-generational jobs are simply responding to the market.

[Dennis Peacock]

Corporations that typically provided lifetime, multi-generational jobs are simply responding to the market.

I don't see any problem with a company doing this and keeping a steady / reliable workforce in place. In my book, as long as the company is making money and meeting market demands....then why get "greedy"?

We don't "have" to have an exorbitant way of life....but a way of life.

[Brian Elfert]

Well the pay is lousy, but parenting is a pretty much lifetime job. :rolleyes:

Has anyone mentioned the Military? That's pretty permanent isn't it?

I also am looking for an industry that pays decent. Military is not it. I am also 10 to 15 years beyond the ideal age for entering the military. I know they do have needs for IT skills though.

This brings up something that might not be so bad. If I do get laid off working for military contractor in IT in Iraq might be so bad for a year or so. I know it is risky and would only consider if I did lose my job.

[Brian Elfert]

I don't see any problem with a company doing this and keeping a steady / reliable workforce in place. In my book, as long as the company is making money and meeting market demands....then why get "greedy"?


The problem is shareholders today. They want profits today, not next month or even next quarter and they want those profits to continue forever. Even when companies report record profits shareholders will sell the stock if the outlook is for lower profits in the next quarter.

CEOs are beholden to the shareholders so they lay off people if even one quarter is bad and the shareholders reward them for reducing expenses thereby hopefully increasing profits.

I think we as a nation would be better off if shareholders looked at the long term profits of companies over a year or two instead of focusing so much on today's share price. These companies might do better too if they kept employees long term who know the business instead of hiring and laying off employees based on today's share price.

[Greg Peterson]

I don't see any problem with a company doing this and keeping a steady / reliable workforce in place. In my book, as long as the company is making money and meeting market demands....then why get "greedy"?

We don't "have" to have an exorbitant way of life....but a way of life.

Corporations are amoral. They respond to market demands. They have no obligation to provide work to any community. They are obligated to produce a profit for their investors. If a corporation is under performing in this regard, investors will move their investment to a corporation that is performing better. If a corporation produces an inferior product, consumers will vote with their dollars.

Corporations have two types of customers to deal with now, consumers and investors. They'll do what they have to do.

[Dennis Peacock]

The problem is shareholders today. They want profits today, not next month or even next quarter and they want those profits to continue forever. Even when companies report record profits shareholders will sell the stock if the outlook is for lower profits in the next quarter.

CEOs are beholden to the shareholders so they lay off people if even one quarter is bad and the shareholders reward them for reducing expenses thereby hopefully increasing profits.

I think we as a nation would be better off if shareholders looked at the long term profits of companies over a year or two instead of focusing so much on today's share price. These companies might do better too if they kept employees long term who know the business instead of hiring and laying off employees based on today's share price.

I hear ya Brian.
Good example that I'm all to personal with: I was replaced at one time with a fresh new college Computer Science grad. I was there in a support role with 12 years Unix Systems Engineering experience. They took me out, had me train this guy to do my job, and let me go. This guy didn't even know was a disk drive was, nor even how to handle anything related to a computer. They had to hire a total of 4 people to make the complete replacement of my skills as a single worker in that support role. After 6 months time? They were paying over twice the overhead costs for replacing just one seniored person.

We've gotten too far away from customer satisfaction and all too close to doing whatever is necessary to make Wall Street happy. Don't we realize any more that without happy customers, we don't have continued business???!!

[Jim Becker]

The problem is shareholders today. They want profits today, not next month or even next quarter and they want those profits to continue forever. Even when companies report record profits shareholders will sell the stock if the outlook is for lower profits in the next quarter.

CEOs are beholden to the shareholders so they lay off people if even one quarter is bad and the shareholders reward them for reducing expenses thereby hopefully increasing profits.

Honestly, this is something I've said many times in many different kinds of situations and I find it particularly frustrating. The financial markets, and consequently much of the business world, focus too much on the short term and it affects the stabity of everything...including small businesses and the communities around them. And to be clear, this is a global phenomenon, not a "US" issue.

[Greg Peterson]

And to be clear, this is a global phenomenon, not a "US" issue.

This is an attribute of a global economy. Producers employ low cost labor forces wherever they may exit. Consumers demand low cost goods, investors demand high yield, short term returns.

I'm not letting corrupt, greedy, unethical and immoral CEO's and the boards that select them off the hook. Greed is more pervasive than ever before.

Between investors taking a short term perspective on investments and consumers demanding low cost goods, even the best intentioned CEO is put in a no-win situation.

[Greg Cole]

Lifetime security is sort of an oxy moron for numerous reasons already mentioned...
If you are looking for stability think of markets for things with inelastic demands, ie things that are needed and or purchased regardless of price or economic conditions of the day.
Short term gains are most often long term detriments. The global economy we operate in somewhat forces this mindset into "corporations" to appease share holders, make $ on paper this year to absorb a write off next year... etc etc.

Greg

[Jim Becker]

This is an attribute of a global economy. Producers employ low cost labor forces wherever they may exit. Consumers demand low cost goods, investors demand high yield, short term returns.

I'm not letting corrupt, greedy, unethical and immoral CEO's and the boards that select them off the hook. Greed is more pervasive than ever before.

Between investors taking a short term perspective on investments and consumers demanding low cost goods, even the best intentioned CEO is put in a no-win situation.

Yes, the greed is there, but your last statement is killer. The global business environment makes it very difficult to do what many of us still consider the "right thing" relative to employees and even consumers.

[Dick Latshaw]

Has anyone mentioned the Military? That's pretty permanent isn't it?

Umm... yeah. Unless you're in the wrong place at the wrong time. Then it becomes REALLY permanent.:eek:

[Greg Muller]

Healthcare. IT in healthcare included!

Anything in healthcare. My wife is in IT for the major hospital system here in KC. It pays great and healthcare is completely recession/inflation proof as it pertains to existing jobs. They just do not do layoffs. There are periods of hiring freezes, but rarely.

Look for specialties that are related to Cerner, McKesson and other healthcare related software, but get hired by the hospital itself, not the vendor.

We both work for the system at different locations and love our jobs. We are also not feeling the economic crunch that has our friends worrying so much.

Greg

[Brian Elfert]

Healthcare. IT in healthcare included!

Anything in healthcare. My wife is in IT for the major hospital system here in KC. It pays great and healthcare is completely recession/inflation proof as it pertains to existing jobs. They just do not do layoffs. There are periods of hiring freezes, but rarely.


The healthcare system must be different down there in Kansas City than Minneapolis. I see regular headlines about the health systems places and hospitals around here cutting positions all the time. Nurses and doctors aren't getting cut, but back end folks are getting cut. Health care is getting squeezed by costs rising higher than reimbursements especially medicare.

That said, my uncle has worked for a hospital in IT for more than a decade (in New Jersey). It would probably be a fairly good option.

If I get laid off I would probably have to take whatever comes along, but I might look for something sooner rather than later considering the uncertainty of present employment.

[James Jaragosky]

I hear ya Brian.
Good example that I'm all to personal with: I was replaced at one time with a fresh new college Computer Science grad. I was there in a support role with 12 years Unix Systems Engineering experience. They took me out, had me train this guy to do my job, and let me go. This guy didn't even know was a disk drive was, nor even how to handle anything related to a computer. They had to hire a total of 4 people to make the complete replacement of my skills as a single worker in that support role. After 6 months time? They were paying over twice the overhead costs for replacing just one seniored person.

We've gotten too far away from customer satisfaction and all too close to doing whatever is necessary to make Wall Street happy. Don't we realize any more that without happy customers, we don't have continued business???!!
It all started when the personnel department became the human resource department. it is no longer personal, now that you are a resource like a paper clip.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Pretty much no.

I was a Machinist Tool Maker and my trade got outsourced to history. Now the machinist is really a tool changer and the engineer programs the CNC machinery. And they do it in India.

So I became an engineer. That Avocation got outsourced to history too and the poverty train that circles the globe where ever people are poor and labor is cheap.

During the 1990's I was hiring masters level engineers for $23-Thousand a year - and they were happy for the work. Grown men (unemployed job seekers) Engineers with fine educations and years and years of experience would break down and weep in my office because I didn't have a job for them. Grown men crying because they felt utterly hopeless for the first time in their lives. Strong men who had children in colleges, wives at home,parents to care for mortgages to pay and they had no options, their manhood, as they understood it, had evaporated.

IT people had the same problem Every one was all about sending the work VIA satellite to India VIA some consulting company.

I was seeing the writing on the wall. But then, the reaper came for my job too.

Then I went to law school. Unfortunately all the depredations on the job markets have also stricken the prof services industry. So I had to develop a practice model that doesn't have me depending on clients to generate income.

Now I am hearing about companies outsourcing even accounting work to India.

Maybe if you get a medical degree? Even Doctors are suffering.

[Bryan Berguson]

Linemen for electric utilities. These jobs start at about 40K and with overtime they can make 65K+, at least this is the going rate in Pennsylvania. These guys are coming out of schools that have 100% placement as there is a shortage of lineworkers right now. I've seen a lot of folks retire in my 16 years here and zero downsizing. There are lots of technology related jobs in the utilities too. SCADA, metering, mapping, (billing is one area that is usually outsourced), communications to name a few.

The electric cooperatives are some of the best companies you can work for. They take care of their members and their employees. My "plan" is to retire from here and I don't have any reason to doubt that will happen. I'm 42 and hope to retire when I'm 62. Well, I'd love to go sooner but I'm trying to be realistic about my retirement income and how much I think I can live on.

Bryan

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Yes.

Doctors. Nurses. Hospital Administrators.

Police officers. Firefighters. Politicians.

Grocery store workers. Sewer line installers. Septic tank installers.

Funeral Home directors. Embalmers. Casket makers. Grave diggers.

Doctors. Nurses. Hospital Administrators.
With the eventual collapse of our health care system, this profession won't be worth it. Doctors have already rallied at the State House for relief from insurance companies and over zealous lawsuits. In the last week, two more hospitals closed in north Jersey because too many people could not pay their bills.

Police officers. Firefighters. Politicians.
Many communities are looking for ways to reduce the police department thru technology. Firefighters are threatened with volunteer forces as industry leaves and is replaced with retail businesses equipped with modern fire suppression systems. And, politicians will eventually get voted out as the economy worsens, or get indicted.

Grocery store workers. Sewer line installers. Septic tank installers.
Grocery store workers are generally underpaid and quit by themselves. Septic tank installers will go away when development becomes so tight that city systems must be installed. But after the city sewer lines are installed, the system seems to last forever. Ergo, good bye sewer line installers.

Funeral Home directors. Embalmers. Casket makers. Grave diggers
With land becoming so valuable, aboveground mausoleums and cremation is becoming popular. Eventually it will be cremation only as land is further used up. But you still may have a job as a Funeral Director, you just won't have all the costly superficial things to offer grieving families in their hour of poor judgment.

So....there you have it: Become a Funeral Director working out of your garage with a gallon of gasoline and a pack of matches.

Good Grief.
-Jeff :)

[Troy Wilkins]

Has anyone mentioned starting your own business and being self-employed? I am self-employed and plan to be at the same job as long as I want. The only drawback is that my boss is a jerk.

[Rick Gibson]

Worked for OPG, (used to be Ontario Hydro) in the nuclear plants for 27 years. Only one layoff in all that time and that was about 30 guys in their school that had less than 6 months. They actually all got hired on about a year later. I left and retired when they offered a buyout package, but no layoffs.

[John Bartley]

Has anyone mentioned starting your own business and being self-employed? I am self-employed and plan to be at the same job as long as I want. The only drawback is that my boss is a jerk.

Took the words right out of my mouth ....

Anyone who wants to have a lifelong job with the same company, get raises anytime the company can afford it, take as many or as few holidays as they wish and make all the decisions about company policy and direction .... needs to work for themselves. I've been self employed since 1991 when the company I worked for closed up without giving us any notice.

I can't imagine being an employee again, but if I had to work for someone, I think I'd make a pretty good employee, having been on both sides of the employer/employee fence.

cheers eh?

[Brian Elfert]

I've already done the small business thing. I don't think it is any more stable than a regular job unless you can find something that is always in demand that will never get eclipsed by technology and people need even in bad times.

I owned and operated an ISP from 1995 through 2000. I made out pretty well when I sold it and I sold it just before the whole ISP thing tanked. Just about every small ISP has sold out or closed down as cable companies and the like have taken over.

I never made anything close to a reasonable salary as a business owner, but it was certainly different and at times exciting.

[George Morris]

I have one of thoes jobs. I am a career firefighter, civil service job. most civil service jobs are like that. We have a union[IAFF] in PA. we cannot strike but if in negotiations we reach a impass we go to binding arbitration. Great adventure not a job per say.
Pay is O.K. Benefits are good, Pension is good. you won't get rich but the work is sure interesting.

[Greg Peterson]

Self employed is a great gig for some. Far too many find out too late that they really aren't cut out for it.

Thankfully, being self employed isn't for everyone. We need far more worker bees than we do queen bees.

[David G Baker]

Has anyone mentioned starting your own business and being self-employed? I am self-employed and plan to be at the same job as long as I want. The only drawback is that my boss is a jerk.
Troy,
Not long ago statistics demonstrated that a person had a much better chance of surviving financially by becoming a felon rather than starting their own business. I don't know if that is still true today but with all of the crime reported in the media it could be.

[David G Baker]

Linemen for electric utilities. These jobs start at about 40K and with overtime they can make 65K+, at least this is the going rate in Pennsylvania. These guys are coming out of schools that have 100% placement as there is a shortage of lineworkers right now. I've seen a lot of folks retire in my 16 years here and zero downsizing. There are lots of technology related jobs in the utilities too. SCADA, metering, mapping, (billing is one area that is usually outsourced), communications to name a few.

The electric cooperatives are some of the best companies you can work for. They take care of their members and their employees. My "plan" is to retire from here and I don't have any reason to doubt that will happen. I'm 42 and hope to retire when I'm 62. Well, I'd love to go sooner but I'm trying to be realistic about my retirement income and how much I think I can live on.

Bryan
Bryan,
Lineman jobs may be stable where you live but in Michigan the utility companies are finding ways around using staff/union employees and are using a lot of sub contractors to do the work.
In California Pacific Gas and Electric dumped a lot of their union employees several years ago, then along came several earthquakes, mud slides and large fires. The State went after them legally and forced them to re-hire many of the employees because the company could not do the work they were obligated to do in order to maintain their status as a State utility.

[Michael Gibbons]

Yes, Priesthood.

[Michael Gibbons]

I have one of thoes jobs. I am a career firefighter, civil service job. most civil service jobs are like that. We have a union[IAFF] in PA. we cannot strike but if in negotiations we reach a impass we go to binding arbitration. Great adventure not a job per say.
Pay is O.K. Benefits are good, Pension is good. you won't get rich but the work is sure interesting. George, do you have a sideline job? I know a lot of firefighters do. My friends dad was a firefighter and owns a hot rod engine machining shop for years,still does. Extra income is good.

[Brian Elfert]

Yes, Priesthood.

I still want to work in IT, not change careers. Almost every industry has IT people. Of course some industries have lots of IT folks and other have very few.