Bending wood, ask for input please

[Rick Gifford]

I am in the process of designing a quilt rack for my wife. She has given me the features she likes from several layouts and I plan to incorporate them as one.

One design feature is a scalloped front rail. I can make this by cutting the design from the wood, but was thinking of bending these rails into this shape as another option. Grain flow would be nicer and it will look good this way. Plus it would give me an excuse to try my hand at bending wood.

She wants oak. So oak it is.

What I am unsure about is what should I look for, kiln dried, air dried... I think I read somewhere on another post one works and the other doesn't.

Not sure if I should steam bend or can I soak the wood?

I'll look around and find the tutorials I've looked at. Any guidance you can offer would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

[harry strasil]

kiln dried is brittle , air dried is best, but you better have nice straight grain, and whether steaming or soaking, the oak is gonna turn black and need oxcylic acid to take the black away and its nasty stuff to hands and also breathing. When steam or soak bending its best to rive or split the wood to almost size and then finish planing.

[Ed Costello]

Ash bends alot better,(canoes, trout nets) does not turn black and it sorta looks like oak. Wear gloves and when you think you have steamed it enough........steam it some more.


Good luck!
Coz

[Doug Shepard]

Have you got a pic of this design? Does the quilt actually hang on a curved rail? Seems like that would cause it to bunch up and not hang straight.

[David Duke]

I've never tried steam bending but want to throw out another option for you to consider............bent lamination. This would still allow for the grain flow with none of the concerns of the discolorization caused by steam bending.

[Rick Gifford]

Well I didn't know about the color change in oak. A laminate bend might be better. Then again I can still stick with the original idea of cutting it to shape.

This one will take some thought on which way to go.

Doug here is a couple pics showing parts of the ideas. These don't represent exactly what we have in mind, but were used for thought.

The large rack shows the scalloped front edge she likes.
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This smaller rack shows the bent front she likes, and this will be closest to the final project. Except mine will be taller and larger to acomodate 5 quilts.
81488

So what I was thinking was to bend the verticals on the smaller rack in a wave/scallop shape. Place the horizontals on the higher hump.

She wants a storage drawer at the bottom so the rack will be built over a box drawer. General idea from the image below.

Oh wait, cant add anymore attachments. I'll make another post.

[Rick Gifford]

The image with a drawer:
81489

So thats a quick rough sketch of whats in mind. I thought bending those rails might look nicer. If it's going to be a royal pain I may have to save bending for another project.

[David Duke]

Rick, I'm sure that these can be bent but I've never done any steam bending; but from what you've shown I know you can use bent laminiation and accomplish the same thing just a little more work making the bending fixtures.

[Rich Schneider]

I agree with David on the bent lamination if your going to do that bow front like the middle picture. Those bow front "legs" would be a great first time bent lamination project and it wouldn't take all that long to do it. Plus from the look of the stretchers between the front and back legs I think you could do the front legs and the stretchers with the same form with a little planning (only use a portion of the form for the stretchers) If you decide to go that route just let us know..there are a lot of Creekers with tons of experience with bent lamination (and I'm sure there are just as many who can tell you about all about how to steam bend those as well, but like David I haven't done steam bent stuff, only bent lams)...now if you want to put scallops in, it will be a little more work but I would, for a first time bent lamination project, be a little less dramatic with the number and exagerration of the scallops...a little shallower and perhaps not as many until you have the hang of how thick the laminations will be, how much reverse curvature there can be without breaking, etc., etc....what you might ultimately find is that a combination of making laminations, steaming them, dry clamping until they "set", then final assembly with glue might be needed if you want several dramatic scallops

[Don Abele]

Not sure about the black color change when steaming oak. We do it all the time with BIG oak and have never seen any color change what so ever. Here's the link to the post from our last bending: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=68664.

That stick was made up from kiln dried laminates that were not presoaked.

I think, for what you are proposing, Davids recommendation of bent lamination may be the best solution. It will be much more work than just cutting the curves out, but it will be stronger and more aesthetically pleasing with the grain orientation.

Be well,

Doc

[Paul Girouard]

Red Oak can turn black when it gets wet , using distilled water helps with that.

I'd go bent lamination's on that, UNLESS you really want to get into steaming as it will require a steam box being built , if you do that you need racks in the box to keep the wood in the steam NOT on the bottom in the hot water ,

You'd also want AD lumber , harder to find most places for one thing and less stable.

If you built a form and rip your stock thin say 3/16" you'd save all that , might be a wash MAYBE , but I'd think less "hoop jumping " would be required for the bent lam's.


Looks like a fun project:cool:

[Paul Girouard]

Not sure about the black color change when steaming oak. We do it all the time with BIG oak and have never seen any color change what so ever. Here's the link to the post from our last bending: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=68664.

That stick was made up from kiln dried laminates that were not presoaked.

I think, for what you are proposing, Davids recommendation of bent lamination may be the best solution. It will be much more work than just cutting the curves out, but it will be stronger and more aesthetically pleasing with the grain orientation.

Be well,

Doc

So Doc whats your rate? Or are you a officier so it'd be rank then ? I think from what I've read your a Corpmens , they let you bend wood ???

[Don Abele]

Paul, I was a Hospital Corpsman until I was selected into the command program. Now I'm a Command Senior Chief (hoping to make Master Chief in April).

Yeah, I get a lot of flak about being a Doc that likes to work with his hands and get greasy/dirty. That's the way I grew up, but medicine is still my passion.

Be well,

Doc

[Rick Gifford]

Dear Lord Doc, when you do steam bending you go BIG! lol

I appreciate all the input everyone has given. I'll talk to my wife and see if she has an absolute preference on the look. If laminating doesn't bother her I will probably give that a go. I don't mind spending the extra time making the jig press.

She is wanting it in oak to match other furniture we have. Much of it bought in Amish country in Ohio, all oak. My wife is sure about what she likes and doesn't, so I will deffinately run my ideas by her beforehand. This is why I never buy her clothes. After 20 years of marriage I have learned to let her decide case by case. There is no pattern I've caught on to. Just when I'm sure she likes a certain style she'll correct me :p

I know my place. It's out in the shop lol.

[Scott Rollins]

I'm no expert, but bent lamination is not difficult. The oak will need to be cut to about 3/16" -1/8" thickness though. I found that any thicker and it can crack. Based on the pics you can use your tablesaw and keep the offcut side of the wood and no planing will be required. Just saw a couple of strips stack them up and see if the bend is appropriate for the look you want. Check out DIY network. com for David Marks or Woodworks for many examples of bent laminations. He made a bent lmination lampstand that was unreal. There is also a Magazine rack that used the same technique that you woiuld use for your design. I did this recently The example shown in the clamps is italian bending ply to check the form The actual piece is poplar..I tried white oak first and it did not paint well at all. BTW the little blowout on the end was fixed before finishing.

[Paul Girouard]

Paul, I was a Hospital Corpsman until I was selected into the command program. Now I'm a Command Senior Chief (hoping to make Master Chief in April).



Good luck Senior :cool: , never trust a "even " numbered Chief ;)

So your ship's company on Old Ironsides? Nice gig I'd think. Ever been to NAS Whidbey Island?

Sorry for the thread drift , :o jsut connecting with a fellow sailor ;)