Neander-Kids tools

[Thomas Knighton]

While working on my saw vise, I was thrilled to have my son join me while doing much of the work. Now, because I needed the vise to sharpen saws, and the saws are all dull, some electrons had to be sacrificed to for the greater good. While the circular saw, or as I called it in my son's presence "The Whirling Blade of Death" (TM), was in operation, my son had to stand well away.

However, when I broke out the block plane, he was able to stand closer and actually made is first shavings (you could almost read through them...just to brag). He was tickled, and I want to encourage this. With that in mind, I decided I need to start putting together his first set of tools. I remember reading Highland Woodworking's blog a while back where they actually suggested using adult tools, but smaller, rather than kid-specific tools, since the kid tools usually are poor quality.

So, with that said, I figured I might as well put together a simple set for him. He'll be 7 in July, so these ideas reflect this. Honestly, I figured he'd mostly use them to "help" me with my projects, but they'd be his tools to use. I am open to suggestions for projects for him though ;)

Planes - I figured a #3 for smoothing, a low angle block plane and a regular block plane should do the trick for now. A jack, a jointer, and a whole host of other planes would come down the road though.

Hand drill - I figured I'd get a smaller vintage drill and fix it up nice for him.

Mallet - I know several places have smaller wooden mallets that would probably work just fine for him.

Saws - Honestly, I just don't know what to get him. I'm more of a western saws kind of guy, and I suspect he will want what I use. I'm thinking of a small dovetail saw with a turned handle if I can't find a good vintage back saw for him. Also, a coping saw would probably work for him. I figured a rip and crosscut saw can wait until he could actually use one ;). Besides, I'll probably be doing most of his cuts for now.

Chisels - I really don't think chisels are a good idea right now. Sharp blades not surrounded by large, blunt metal sound like a trip to the emergency room just waiting to happen.

Squares - I have some instructions for making try squares in a book that I thought about giving a shot. If they work, I'd make a set for me and a set for my son. If not, a set of inexpensive engineer squares should do the trick. Also, I'd look for a good vintage Starett combination square as well.

Measuring instruments - A folding rule should do the trick for raw measurements. Also, tools for working wood has some beech bevel gauges for not much money. I figured those would work for the time being as well.

I could use any suggestions folks may have, or critiques of this list. Most of this is just bouncing around in my head at the moment and this is also an attempt to get it down to look at.

Thanks in advance for any help you folks may have!

Tom

[Randy Klein]

Both my boys can handle the #4 pretty well :D. But big brother has the better technique.

[Thomas Knighton]

Good to know Randy :)

I've got a #4 that needs some serious work to be usable, but might make him a good plane and save me some cash. Especially since I plan on fixing it up either way :D

Tom

[Kevin French]

We're talking development here. Get the boy a #6, at least a 5. You've seen the old Galoot Central guy. You don't get those 'Guns' push'n a #3.

[Jim Koepke]

While working on my saw vise, I was thrilled to have my son join me while doing much of the work.

Planes - I figured a #3 for smoothing, a low angle block plane and a regular block plane should do the trick for now. A jack, a jointer, and a whole host of other planes would come down the road though.

Hand drill - I figured I'd get a smaller vintage drill and fix it up nice for him.

Mallet - I know several places have smaller wooden mallets that would probably work just fine for him.

Saws - Honestly, I just don't know what to get him. I'm more of a western saws kind of guy, and I suspect he will want what I use. I'm thinking of a small dovetail saw with a turned handle if I can't find a good vintage back saw for him. Also, a coping saw would probably work for him. I figured a rip and crosscut saw can wait until he could actually use one ;). Besides, I'll probably be doing most of his cuts for now.

Chisels - I really don't think chisels are a good idea right now. Sharp blades not surrounded by large, blunt metal sound like a trip to the emergency room just waiting to happen.

Squares - I have some instructions for making try squares in a book that I thought about giving a shot. If they work, I'd make a set for me and a set for my son. If not, a set of inexpensive engineer squares should do the trick. Also, I'd look for a good vintage Starett combination square as well.

Measuring instruments - A folding rule should do the trick for raw measurements. Also, tools for working wood has some beech bevel gauges for not much money. I figured those would work for the time being as well.

I could use any suggestions folks may have...
Tom

For planes, you might think of a 5-1/4. Many of these have been through the trenches in schools, so if you can check for damage around the throat. Of course, if you are rich, a #1 or #2 is a good size for small hands.

For the saws, you might consider a fret saw instead of a coping saw. Very similar but the fret saw is more versatile and many more types of blade are available.

When you mention making squares for yourself and son, be sure he is involved in the process in some way. I have some old plane blades that I keep because they may be useful for making squares or bevel gauges. In my collection is a pair of dovetail gauges that look very much like small try squares, only their blades are set at 1:6 & 1:8 slopes.

I have folding rules and they do not get much use, they are a bit cumbersome. A good 6" steel rule a long straight edge and a tape measure may actually be better, leave the folding rulers for the old tool collection the two of you can share.

A suggestion for a first project to work on, a simple tool tote.

[Lee Koepke]

a sturdy work platform to get him up to the bench top level.

[Thomas Knighton]

Jim,

I'd thought of the fret saw, but my understanding was they were a bit harder to control than a coping saw. Personally, I've never used one, so I can't say either way. If they're about the same, then versatility will trump familiarity ;)

Everyone else,

Great suggestions folks. Unfortunately, I doubt I'll come across a 5 1/4 in the wild around here. The old tool market just ain't that great in this town. All of mine came from eBay, where you can't check the mouth. I may know some folks who can help me out on that count though.

I really like the ideas of a tool tote and a platform for him to work on the bench. I'd considered the bench thing, but figured I'd build it for him, but why not me help him build it :D

[Brian Kent]

It night be fun to do most of the work on that #4 and then guide him through the last couple of steps so he can get the fun of tool restoration.

[Thomas Knighton]

That's an interesting idea Brian. I might just have to do that...if I can seperate myself from restoring it long enough :D

Tom

[Jim Koepke]

I'd thought of the fret saw, but my understanding was they were a bit harder to control than a coping saw. Personally, I've never used one, so I can't say either way. If they're about the same, then versatility will trump familiarity ;)

The control can actually be easier. Some of the blades available (from Lee Valley) are spiral toothed, so the saw doesn't have to be turned to change directions.

They may be harder to set up. Because most fret saws are made to clamp blades of different sizes instead of having one size blade with guide pins, setting the blade tension could hard if there is not a built in adjustment for doing so. Also, many of the designs can only be set up right handed. Sometimes it is handy to be able to switch which side the clamping nuts are on.

Have fun,

Jim

[Ken Werner]

Try to find Richard Starr's book "Woodworking with Kids".

A coping saw is really good for kids to begin with. I bought Ben a 12 ounce Estwing hammer when he was five. I agree with you on the chisels. As for the block plane, go for a really small stanley 102 if you can find it.

There are small workbenches for kids, I got ours when a school had a surplus auction. It was wonderful.

For jollies, look here:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=38946&referrerid=7642

All the best for you and your son.

Ken

[Jeff Hallam]

LV had a sale a while ago for a set of small japanese saws that might work well for kids.

It is item 60T06.60

[Thomas Knighton]

Jeff,

The only downside of that set is my son is likely to be upset that he doesn't have saws like me. That leaves me with western saws only. The real trick is finding some just for him ;)

Tom

[John Shuk]

My son is pretty good with a coping saw. he'll be 7 this year. This past x-mas we got him a handled file and a miter box set. The miter box we got was cheap maybe $12 bucks at Sears but it actually works really well. I might spring for one of the better one with the integrated saw due to the limit of a nominal 3 inch wide piece on the one we've got. A speed square was my choice for him to use and again it is fine. we make birdhouses and other small stuff out of cedar and pine. It is alot of fun. I think a Japanese saw would be a good addition at some point in the future.

[Justin Grow]

The coping saw is the first thing I can remember my dad letting me use in the woodshop. That, and a hand-drill.

[James Mittlefehldt]

My son has other interests, but my grandson is only one, so I just might nudge him towards the slope.

I had considered the knob and tote attachements that Lee Valley sell for their block plane which in effect turns the plane into a small smoother. I already have the blosk plane so that would not be a high cost. Perhaps that is something to think about.

[Marcus Ward]

Get one of those clunker western saws, the one that is in bad shape, and cut it in half, put new teeth on it and new very small handle for very small hands. Good project and you make a great saw for a small person. Make sure you put a little wax on those plane soles for your son so they slide nice and easy. An unwaxed #7, a kid couldn't push, but a waxed one, no problem, seriously.

[Thomas Knighton]

Thanks folks. There's now a lot to think about and to gather the necessary parts for his first tool kit...one that will hopefully last him a lifetime!

Thanks again!

Tom

[Dave Anderson NH]

I strongly echo the thought that you buy only smaller sized adult tools. You can also add some of the medium sized adult tools too. Most kids tools are at the best of mediocre quality and some are truly abyssmal. Your son can use an adult bench if you build a sturdy plywood box large enough for him to stand on. I did this for my grandson when he was 8. At 13 now and 6ft tall, he doesn't need it. By 10yo Aaron could cut dovetails, make a M&T joint, and 4 square a board. Unfortunately he now is more intersted in playing baseball, footbal, and chasing girls.:D The upside is that the basic skills are there for whenever he wants to use them.

[Thomas Knighton]

Dave,

I absolutely agree. I'd rather spend more for good quality tools than to have the tools frustrate the mess out of him and he give up woodworking.

When I was a kid, my folks gave me a workbench and tool set. These were real, working tools, and the bench was supposed to be a real, working bench (though Chris Schwarz would laugh at it hysterically I'm sure :)). The problem was, none of the tools were sharp or of decent quality, so I though woodworking sucked. However, I always wished I could have done woodworking projects, but figured it wasn' practical. I'd rather spare my son that.

Tom

[Rob Lee]

Jeff,

The only downside of that set is my son is likely to be upset that he doesn't have saws like me. That leaves me with western saws only. The real trick is finding some just for him ;)

Tom

Hi Thomas -

Take a look at these saws (others sell them too...) :

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=55600&cat=1,42884

Inexpensive, effective, and made in USA. You'll be borrowing it from your son...:D

Cheers -

Rob

[Thomas Knighton]

Rob,

I had forgotten about these saws. The general purpose one might be just perfect for him, along with a coping and/or fret saw that I'm sure you fine folks can also provide :)

Tom