Shaker or Faker? (pics)

[Bill Grumbine]

Good day all

Yesterday we had a discussion on the board about the Shakers and their use (or lack thereof) of figured wood. I like the Shaker style for the most part, and have emulated their philosophy in my own furniture whenever possible. My favorite species are maple, cherry, and walnut, and being where I am, I have a good supply of wormy maple with which to work. the boards are often figured with curl, and when wormholes are added in, they are very pretty. I am submitting for your viewing two projects for use in the Grumbine household.

<img src= "http://www.enter.net/~ultradad/shakerbench01.jpg" >

This is one of two benches I built for our kitchen about two years ago. It has seen some seriously hard use. I designed it to fit completely under the kitchen table, and so be easy to move out of the way. That is usually accomplished by feet kicking it in the general direction of under the table by people whose hands are full. In addition, Bubba, our 95 lb golden retriever mutt regularly uses either of the benches to see if any treats have been left for him on top of the table (when no one is around of course)

<img src= "http://www.enter.net/~ultradad/shakerbench02.jpg" >

This is a shot of the top. The design came from a Rodale book put out in the late 70s or very early 80s, and the title is something like Build it Better Yourself . The bench is represented as a Shaker bench, but is not documented in any way. I used walnut and wormy maple, and many former Ponder's posteriors have polished these perches for people.

<img src= "http://www.enter.net/~ultradad/towelrack01.jpg" >

This is a towel rack I designed and built for SWMBO, who requested it for our bathroom. It is based on a Shaker design found in a book by John Shea. I extended the uprights, tapered them for looks, and added the second bar, enabling the required storage in the allotted space. It is also made from some very highly figured wormy maple and walnut. The figure was sort of burned out by the lights, so it is hard to see.

I do not know that I would call either of these pieces Shaker, but they are certainly built in that tradition. I like Shaker inspired as a description. It keeps me out of trouble with the purists, and allows me to do some artistic interpretation. However, based on my reading, I don't think a real Shaker would have hesitated to use the same figured woods.

Thanks for taking time to take a peek.

Bill

[Daniel Rabinovitz]

From the other end of the state -
Those look beautiful
Dan
:cool:

[Jim Izat]

Hi Bill!

I want to say I read somewhere that there are some extant shaker pieces that did use native hardwoods that did display figure, although I can't say for sure that the figure was a design consideration.

That being said, I really love the bench for the kitchen table! Is there any chance you might post a picture of the table it goes with?

Your flatwork as as beautiful as your turned pieces always are,


Jim Izat

[Todd Burch]

I have several Shaker books and they most definately were not afraid to us figured woods. "Where there is no law, there is no transgression", I belive is one of the quotes about using figured woods.

I haven't seen or heard mention of Shakers using wormy wood though...

Either way, today we aren't constrained by societal or communal laws - we build to our taste or the tase of our clients (and I use that term "taste" loosely for some clients...)

Good job Bill. I've made several smaller benches of similar design, although all out of 5/4 yeller pine.

Todd.

[Randy Miller]

I think you are better off calling them Shaker-inspired, because the Shaker tradition was very strict in "non-adornment." I don't think they would have had contrasting woods or figured woods. Beauty as a result of functional design is one thing, adornment was a no-no. On the other hand "A rose by any other name..."

These peices are beautiful because of their functional design AND execution with contrasting wood edges and plugs.

Thanks for posting them!
Regards,
Randy

[Todd Burch]

Shakers used a lot of mixed woods in their pieces - some of them you just can tell, 'cuz their millenial laws said things like "all sewing tables have to be salmon colored" or some such hairbrain restriction. Todd.

[Scott Stefanoski]

very nice. i have read several books regarding shakers (i am in no way claimning to be an expert) all of the ones i have read stated that shakers woul allow figured woods since the beaty n them was a work of god rather than a work of man.

just my opinion and worth exactly what you paid for it.

[Von Bickley]

Hello Bill,
Your work looks GREAT as usual. Thanks for posting the pictures.

[Chris Knight]

Bill,

The work is lovely and I like the shape of the pieces very much. I have to say however - and no doubt incur the wrath of many in the saying(!) - that I don't like the fashion for a very light wood being used with so much dark wood together in a piece.

A hint for accenting is fine and I do it but the juxtaposition of maple/sycamore etc with large amounts of Walnut/Wenge or whatever is just too much for me. I find it fussy, especially, when as in your stool, the lighter wood has so much character.

Typically one sees great workmanship in this kind of thing - let's face it, anything less would be made manifest in an instant by the strong contrasts - but I always think to myself how much better that piece would look with a more subtle use of colour and figure.

Chris

[Dave Hammelef]

BILL THAT IS FLAT WORK
UGh,
Man your turned work has always been awesome but that flat work is truely inspiring. I LOVE Maple, and I think I after I show the pics to my wife I will be building that towel rack. So expect some questions on dimmensions and issues you had building it.

Dave

[Jim Morrow]

Hi Bill,
Those benches are really fantastic. I really like the contrasting wood. Is it Walnut? Nice work and I thought you were just a turner.
Thanks for posting,
Jim

[Simon St.Laurent]

It doesn't feel "Shaker" to me, I think because of the contrast, but it doesn't need to, either. It looks great on its own! That wormy maple is amazing.

[Dave Arbuckle]

Like scottstef, my understanding is that natural adornment was just fine to the Shakers. I think it was only man-applied adornment that was not allowed.

I think you still are better for using "Shaker inspired", unless you are building a reproduction. If I were to build a piece after the style of Thomas Chippendale, "Chippendale inspired" would be correct.

Beautiful furniture, Bill.

Dave

[Dale Sherman]

Looks like some butts have been contributing to the shine since I dined with mine. Nice photowork, too, Bill.

Shaker inspired gives you the loophole in description you need to defend your design style. You could also call it Mennonite furniture, rarer (and more expensive) than the more common Shaker furniture. ;)

Chris has a valid point, the figure would be more pronounced if the walnut was less pronounced, more of an accent wood that complimented the darker streaks in the maple. Perhaps just a 1/4" inlay of walnut 3/4" in from the edge. I would also be tempted to put a 3º slant to the edges of the legs, tops in, bottoms out. But that would make it more Unitarian-inspired. :p

I like the taper you put in the towel rack uprights. Gives it the delicate look without making it look fragile.

Dale

[Richard Brown]

Bill
They are WOW! They are great as you usual work.

[Lars Thomas]

I didn't know you shop was equipped to do 2D work.:) . Looks great. I especially like the lines on the towel rack. Lars

[Bob Lasley]

Bill,

Your pieces may be Shaker inspired, but now, because of these pics, me thinks there will be some Grumbine inspired pieces crafted!

Call it whatever makes you happy, I call it beautiful work.

Bob

[Dave Avery]

I agree, Bob. It's not important what it's called, only that it's fine work. I particularly like the bench - both the design and the use of contrasting woods. Dave.

[Dave Schemansky]

Great looking bench. Love the pegs. Hope LOML doesn't see these pics.

[Ken Frantz]

BBBBEEEEAAAAAUUUUTTTTTIIIIIFFFFFUUUUUULLLLLL
WORK BILL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bill Grumbine]

Wow, I check in to do some posting, and looky at all the nice things people are saying about my furniture! I have to run out the door for an appointment in about five minutes, but I will be back later to respond to comments, questions, and critiques.

Bill

[Dr. Zack Jennings]

I Never Said Anything Nice !... about you or your furniture. Show me a picture of BUBBA and I'll consider it.

[Bill Grumbine]

Thanks everyone for your very kind words on my work. I know I’ve surprised a few of you by producing some flat work, but I actually do a fair amount of that when I am not spinning wood or teaching turning. I will address specific questions or comments here.

Dan, if you ever get this far to the east end of the state, please look us up or let us know you are coming. We’d love to meet you.

Jim, the table which these benches currently accompany is a warehouse club special. Translated, I haven’t gotten that far yet. Our house is an early 1800’s stone farmhouse. My goal, when I get to that point in furniture/renovations is to build a tilt top dining room and kitchen table. We have two walk in fireplaces on two floors, and we envision sometime in the future being able to eat around the table, and then when coffee is served, convert the table to a bench with a back and light the fire for the evening.

Todd, I know some people who have all their taste in their mouth. :D

Randy, Shaker inspired always keeps me out of trouble.

Scott, I don’t want to express my views on what God has done, but most Ponders probably know that already. :)

Von, thank you for the compliment.

Chris, I can certainly understand your view. I was not real sure about how this would work, but the benches were the first things to be built using this combination. I had a nice wide board, but not quite wide enough for my personal posterior, so I needed to glue up some wood. I didn’t want to spoil the effect of the one wide board, so I hit upon the contrasting pieces. SWMBO loved it, and that is what counts. When I proposed the same for her towel rack, she was very enthusiastic.

Dave, fire away with the questions. I’ll be glad to help you out as much as possible. This piece went together fairly easily.

Jim and Lars, I occasionally fool people. :) The main wood is red maple. To turners it is ambrosia, and to the guys at the sawmill, it is wormhole maple. The accent wood is walnut as you surmised.

Simon, Dave, Dave, Dave, Ken, and Dick, thank you also for your kind words.

Dale, I thought about tapers, but I needed to have those “right” angles. :D

Bob, that is very kind of you, but I think I might have a ways to go before people start naming things after me. :)

Zack, I don’t have any pics of Bubba handy, but he is half golden, half yellow lab, and he is a very muscular 95 lbs, not like these fat labs one often sees. He has two acres of invisible fence to run on, and he makes use of it all.

Thanks again everyone, for taking the time to respond, and for your kind words.

Bill

[Dr. Zack Jennings]

What are the dimensions ? I know you are a big ole boy from your previous posts. I do like the bench. The grain looks great in the photo. You didn't match any grain? Did You?

The field of the top and each leg looks like single wide, thick boards.

[Bill Grumbine]

Zack, the benches are approximately 48" long, 11" wide, and 16" high (some idiot made a mathematical error, but they turned out to be very comfortable). ;)

The tops are one wide board each, but the legs are glued up from two pieces. I have several boards of this stuff in the barn that are just a hair over 12" wide waiting for the right job.

Bill

[Jason Roehl]

I'll keep this simple. I'd give you another thumbs up if this software allowed me (w/o making another post). I, too, like clean and simple, allowing the wood itself to be the beauty.

Jason

[John Miliunas]

Shaker, faker or otherwise. It matters not, because it's some real nice work regardless of the design origins! And you're right: If LOYL likes it, then that's the design you might want to stick with. Oh, and keep us posted on some more of your flat work! Definitely a very pleasant change of pace from what you usually post. Hmmmm....There anything w/wood that you *can't* do?!:cool:

[Ed Bartchy]

Bill,

I don't have any special background on Shaker furniture. But, I can say I really like that bench. I like the sturdy look and the contrast of woods. I think the dark edging compliments the darker, wormy-stripes of the maple.

Ed Bartchy

[John Showler]

Hi ya Bill,

Good to see you here. I think I've seen that bench somewhere!

Can you tell me how you inlcuded several pics in one post? I'm just starting to get my feet wet in this creek!

I've gotta nice bowl (I think so anyway) from some Ambrosia Maple you gave me on our fisrt visit with the family and I'd like to post it with some other stuff in one post.

New baby arrived Feb 4. All are doing exceptionally well. Will post a pic of her too with details.

Hope all is well up yonder.

Blessings to you and yours,

John Showler

[Jim Izat]

Originally posted by John Showler
Hi ya Bill,



Can you tell me how you inlcuded several pics in one post? I'm just starting to get my feet wet in this creek!

John Showler



<b><font size = "4" color = "green"> John, you can do it if you know a little HTML and you can pull in the images from your own webpage/server. I'd be glad to show you how, it's simple.

Jim Izat

[Martin Shupe]

Bill,

The Book of Shaker Furniture, John Kassay

Page 13 has a bench very similar to yours...

Differences:

Top board is rounded at the ends, while yours is angled.

Stretcher is rounded as well, and I can't see yours, so I am not sure if it is rounded or angled.

Through tenons into top from legs, not sure about yours.

The one in the book is solid walnut, but I really like your blend of woods.

I was researching benches for my wife, who wants one for the hallway, when I ran across it.

I know, I know, I am supposed to be working on the round stand...

:D

[Ted Shrader]

Originally posted by Bill Grumbine
Good day all.
Yesterday we had a discussion on the board about the Shakers and their use (or lack thereof) of figured wood. . . . . Thanks for taking time to take a peek.
Bill

Bill -

Thanks for posting those pictures. Really nice stuff and illustrates the point well. :)

Regards,
Ted

[Jim Becker]

Bill--

I must have missed these wonderful objects when I visited last summer. What a shame, because they are spectacular! I think that the Shaker's would have appreciated the functionality and workmanship, too.

[Jesper Grønvaldt]

I thought of using the "Who cares" in the subject line, but people, who do know me might get offended. It is of no consequence if Shaker Inspired or not, as they clearly are interpretations, and hence pure Grumbinesque.

The designs will stand the test of time (and butts in one case) and will serve as intended - both aestetically and practically.

Being a sorta practically inclined feller mesself, I particularly like the benches but would be worrying about tipping the towel stand over, hence not have as a relaxed relationship to that piece. I feel the same way about Dave Anderson's period pieces - love to look at them and admire the lines, but feeling a constant fear of tripping in the carpet and causing some damage.

It should not surprise you that my current project is building a bed from 2 x 8 construction lumber.

I my book, most things have to stand the Bubba test.

Is Kutztown on the way from NJ to AZ??

Jesper

[Jim Becker]

Is Kutztown on the way from NJ to AZ??

Sure...especially if you take I-78. You'll be going right by Mr. Gumbine's fine spread in the country not long after you get into Pennsylvania.

[Lee Schierer]

Bill that bench and blacket rack look pretty sturdy to me. Why you would worry about them being Shakey is beyond me.

P.S. I think the Shakers got a lot more credit for furniture making than that which they actually built. ( just my 2 cents, not based on any particular fact)

[Bill Grumbine]

Originally posted by Martin Shupe

I know, I know, I am supposed to be working on the round stand...

:D

Did I say anything Martin? :D It must be your own guilt getting you. Even so, since I made the bench after starting the candlestand and before finishing it, I guess I can't give you too much grief.

Bill

[Bill Grumbine]

Originally posted by Jesper Grønvaldt

I my book, most things have to stand the Bubba test.

Is Kutztown on the way from NJ to AZ??

Jesper

Jesper, Kutztown is in a direct line. I think it would be great if you could stop by for a visit! Then you could see how Bubba has been testing things around here with his new assistant Rowdy.

Bill

[Bill Grumbine]

Good morning men

Ted, thanks for your kind words.

Jim, we never made it in the house to see the benches, and the rack hadn't been built yet. Next time you're up, we'll make sure you get the whole tour.

Lee, it an't shaky if it'll hold me up. :D The towel rack will need attention while being used, but that is just the nature of teh beast. I warned her it would be that way.

Bill

[Glenn Hodges]

Bill, the benches are beautiful. It reminds me of the benches I used to see in the old log homes which have now dissappeared. They were handmade by the owner or a neighbor which was a handyman for some type of trade because money was nonexistence at least rare. They were made of one type of wood, usually pine, oak, or cypress down here in South Georgia, highly functional, and some were used for over 100 years. Most of them ended up in antique shops. I spent a lot of time sitting on these type of benches, thanks for the memories. Nice to see someone still making them, Shaker or not.

[Paul Geer]

Wow Bill, look at all the replies. I can see why, nice work on the shaker pieces.