Steel Straight Edge [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

Jim Becker

03-08-2004, 4:30 PM

You have to pick your straight edge based on what you will be demanding from it. For tool setup and maintenance, no question, you need a higher qualitiy one than you might settle for for layout work. The Starrett that Chris mentions falls into the former catagory and should be very suitable for checking your machines.

Steven Wilson

03-08-2004, 4:34 PM

I have a 4' Starret straight edge. They're usually around $200 sometimes less if you look hard. Great device for machine setup though.

Glenn Clabo

03-08-2004, 5:09 PM

Michael Perata

03-08-2004, 5:46 PM

I invested, cause they aren't cheap either, in a Stabila level. They are guaranteed for life...and machined flat. At least flat enough for setting up machines for woodworking AND using them for what levels are made for. If you need more...Starrett is the way to go.

Called "everywhere" in the Bay Area looking for one - finally got my 3' Starrett ($124) from www.mscdirect.com. Three days from the time I place the order.

Try http://www.mscdirect.com/IWCatSectionView.process?Keyword=Y&RestartFlow=t&Merchant_Id=1&p_section_Id=1475&Section_Id=1475&p_product_type_Id=871&ShowProductList=t&p_att_type_id_0=30275&p_att_value_id_0=382499&p_search_flag_0=1&p_att_type_id_1=19514&p_att_value_id_1=381109&p_search_flag_1=1&p_att_type_id_2=19515&p_att_value_id_2=286809&p_search_flag_2=1&SelectedAtt.length=3&pbegin=0&pcount=15&NameVector%5B0%5D.Name=Brand+Name&NameVector%5B0%5D.Value=Starrett&NameVector%5B1%5D.Name=Style&NameVector%5B1%5D.Value=Square+Edge&NameVector%5B2%5D.Name=Thickness+%28Inch%29&NameVector%5B2%5D.Value=7%2F32&NameVector.length=3&View.x.x=84&View.x.y=8

Brian Hale

03-08-2004, 7:21 PM

While your at the MSC site, do a search for Pre-Hardened Ground Flat Stock. A 36" x 3" x 1/4" piece is $77. Lots of other sizes also.

Brian :)

Mac McAtee

03-09-2004, 11:53 AM

A normal 4' level is as straight an edge as any woodworker would ever need. You can buy one at any HD or Lowes. Just look them over, hold one against the other in case there is a dog in the pile.

Jay Goddard

03-09-2004, 1:43 PM

Jim Becker

03-09-2004, 1:55 PM

A normal 4' level is as straight an edge as any woodworker would ever need. You can buy one at any HD or Lowes. Just look them over, hold one against the other in case there is a dog in the pile.

For woodworking, absolutely. For machine setup, such as jointer alignment, no. Most "normal" 4' levels are not straight enough for that task, even before you drop them. You truely need to check the edge first as described in Jay's reply before you depend upon it...

Richard McComas

03-09-2004, 2:16 PM

Looking for a source for a 4' steel straight edge. Spendy aren't they.

There is a old saying:

Buy once, cry once, I have a 6 foot Starrett. You'd be surprised on oftern it is used for other task than machinery set up in the shop.

Chris Padilla

03-09-2004, 3:40 PM

I recently set up an 8" jointer using a cheap readily available aluminum straight edge. I picked up a 4' straight edge from Sears for about $8, then brought it in to my workplace and checked it out on a large granite surface plate. It checked out to within the .0015" feeler gauge. It wasn't very stiff laterally, but it did the job I needed it to.

Jay

That is real good, Jay! :) Starrett guarantees 0.0002" (0.2 mil or 5 microns or 0.005 mm) per 12".

Now when you drop it...better check it again! :p

I made a nice little MDF box to protect my Starrett straight-edge. It could also use some little feet to keep it from tipping over. You bang one corner of that straight-edge, kiss that 0.2mil/12" goodbye....

Alan Turner

03-09-2004, 4:56 PM

I have the 3 foot Starrett, bevel edged, graduated, straight edge. Bought it used for $35 (smile). I made a holder for it on the inside of the rail of my workbench, so it is handy, but nothing can drop on it. I am careful with it as I couldn't afford to replace it with a new one.

Mark Bachler

03-10-2004, 9:20 AM

Here's the best deal I could find: Starrett 48" beveled 1 edge, no graduation. $183

http://www.msiviking.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=385-48

Alan Turner

03-10-2004, 10:08 AM

Yup. I think, according to the new Starrett retail price guide, that mine is now $293 or so. Way expensive.
Alan

Dan Barr

11-15-2007, 5:26 AM

I just bought my 36" Starrett straight edge.

:D

Amazon has some good prices on these right now too.

v/r

dan

jim gossage

11-15-2007, 6:46 AM

lee valley sells a 4 foot straight edge that is sturdy and very useable for less than $100. mine is within 0.001 over the entire length.

Mike Marcade

11-15-2007, 10:40 AM

If you do go the box level route, make sure it has machined edges and not just an aluminum extrusion. The empire true blue line is nicely machined. I checked mine on a granite surface plate and it is indeed extremely straight.

Jude Tuliszewski

11-15-2007, 11:42 AM

Don't forget about Woodpecker. Good stuff but not as spendy as Starrett.

John Borgwardt

11-15-2007, 12:01 PM

If anyone ever needs a straight edge to cut a 8 foot sheet of plywood or any other sheet goods, a metal stud works great. They are 2x4 or 2x 6 in size. They are cheap and straight. My $.02. Hope it helps someone in a pinch. John :p

Matt P

11-17-2007, 12:54 AM

link doesn't seem to point to correct product..

Here's the best deal I could find: Starrett 48" beveled 1 edge, no graduation. $183

http://www.msiviking.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=385-48

Gary Keedwell

11-17-2007, 12:59 AM

Try this.....scroll down ...

http://www.msi-viking.com/search_results.asp?PAGE=8&txtsearchParamTxt=straight+edge&txtsearchParamCat=ALL&txtsearchParamType=ALL&iLevel=1&txtsearchParamMan=ALL&txtsearchParamVen=ALL&txtFromSearch=fromSearch&btnSearch.x=11&btnSearch.y=10

Gary

Rob Will

11-17-2007, 1:03 AM

I have the 3 foot Starrett, bevel edged, graduated, straight edge. Bought it used for $35 (smile).

Yes Alan, you suck.

I had to cough up retail.

Rob

Bob Smalser

11-17-2007, 1:59 AM

You guys working in wood or setting your machines up to make parts for NASA? ;)

What you can't get out of a 4' paperhanger's straight edge sold for 20 bucks at Home Depot, ain't worth getting.

Fortunately, measuring arbor runout and other unnecessary fussing with your machines thinking it'll improve your work is a stage we all went through and you'll grow out of. Trusting your eyes and hands working with wood beats anything Starrett sells for machinists hands down.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/2594266/284146366.jpg

Reminds me of a comment I got once when recommending buying a woodworker's drill press instead of a machinist's drill press. Over twice the reach, on casters that move it to the job, and unlimited angles on long workpieces:

Q: "But radial arms drill presses have too much flex and runout".

A: Inaccuracy over what, hand drilling? Because that's how I'd have to do much of it if all I had was your machinist's press.

Stephen Pereira

11-17-2007, 5:41 AM

http://home.comcast.net/~jaswensen/machines/straight_edge/straight_edge.html

Haven't done this myself, thought I would save this project for when I retire.

James White

11-17-2007, 8:09 AM

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INLMK3?PMK0NO=862083

Enco is a sister company to MSC. However there prices are lower for the same items.

James

David Weaver

11-17-2007, 8:10 AM

What you can't get out of a 4' paperhanger's straight edge sold for 20 bucks at Home Depot, ain't worth getting.

That still depends on what you're doing. If you're working with expensive materials and you want to be able to check straightness on a surface that you just planed with a 0.001" through shaving after doing a series of stop shavings, those rules from home depot aren't going to cut it. I've tried both, and I'll save the home depot rules for home improvement, and not making cabinetry.

Of course, that type of accuracy isn't necessary, but if you want to measure it, you won't be doing it with an aluminum empire ruler from home depot.

I, like several here have done, spent the $200 or so and got a single bevel 4 ft starrett rule. I'm glad I did - it gave me a good indication of just how far off those rules at the big box stores are.

If the money isn't an issue, there's no real reason to get something that is probably within a couple of hundredths of straight over its length when you can get something that is less than a thousandth from straight.

Doug Mason

11-17-2007, 9:12 AM

I agree w/Bob that it is a "complete" waste of money to buy a Starret for woodworking; I know, because I fell into "the thinking" that I needed them--and bought two of them--one four feet long. I am now past that. In hindsight, all I needed for machine set-up/woodworking was a cheapo straightedge from the borg.

Cliff Rohrabacher

11-17-2007, 10:26 AM

Make 'em yourself
http://home.comcast.net/~jaswensen/machines/straight_edge/straight_edge.html (http://home.comcast.net/%7Ejaswensen/machines/straight_edge/straight_edge.html)

This is pretty much the old school toolmakers method from way back when milling machines didn't have increments marked on dials and got power from flat belt pulleys over head driven by water wheels - and it works.

What he doesn't tell you is that you need to purchase longer steel members than you expect to have as finished products. For a 4' tool the steel bars should be 3/8" thick by2" wide or 1/4"thick by 3" wide and buy lengths 2 - 3 feet longer than the final length. When done your straight edge is in the center of the bar.

when Lapping one should seek as random a pattern as possible.

We used to do hand lapped components that had to be measured for flatness within nanometers (light bands) The janitor was better than the machinists 'cause the machinists had years and years of forcing themselves to do everything with dead accurate repeatable precision and random is key when hand lapping.

glenn bradley

11-17-2007, 11:05 AM

I'll assume you mean a straight edge and not a yardstick. If this is for nachine setup the Veritas is nice but I believe it max's out at 36" which is what I have. It's about $60. Once you add that extra foot the price really jumps. If you just want an edge guide the paper-hangers rule would work.

David Weaver

11-17-2007, 11:09 AM

I'm guessing you don't do a lot of hand work, or you don't adopt the method of doing the basic dimensioning with power tools and the final fitting with hand tools?

I agree that if you're going to do most of your work by dimensioning with machines and then sanding for final finish, there's nowhere you're going to use it.

If you're going to hand plane for flatness and you want true flatness or to create a minute hollow, you're not going to be able to tell with a cheap straight edge.

I don't think this is a matter of "everyone needs one" or "nobody needs one". It's a matter of how accurate do you want to be, and to assume that nobody needs to be more accurate than a few hundredths of an inch in flatness or straightness or fine, but the next person may come along and tell you that anything nicer than caveman level with machine marks serves no purpose because it's not functional to make accuracy any better than "not quite falling apart".

You choose your level of accuracy, I'll choose mine, but when it comes to someone who is starting out woodworking wanting accuracy, don't steer them away from it because that's your preference - especially if they're going to be building one or two pieces a year and precision is their preference. Just the same as you wouldn't steer them toward it if they told you they wanted to do everything with machine and "good enough for the eye" was their preference.

David Weaver

11-17-2007, 11:16 AM

A normal 4' level is as straight an edge as any woodworker would ever need. You can buy one at any HD or Lowes. Just look them over, hold one against the other in case there is a dog in the pile.

What are you planning to make? Are you planning to do hand work and try to create a hollow several thousandths deep in each board you hand joint? You're going to have trouble doing fine work with one of those HD or Lowes straight edges. One may be fine, the next may not.

If you're fettling a large jointer hand plane, how are you going to be able to tell if the bottom is flat? If the bottom is 0.005" hollow or convex because your reference surface isn't as flat as you think it is, you're going to be stuck with a plane that doesn't perform like it should or could.

The question is "what are you doing?". If you're pulling a jointed board off of a machine jointer and checking to make sure you didn't taper the ends, a cheap straight edge is fine.

If you're trying to put a hollow of several thousandths of an inch over the edge of an exotic hardwood board 3 and a half feet long, the cheap straight edge isn't going to tell you what you're doing.

I tried several cheap straight edges for hand work before I bit the bullet and bought the right thing for the job, and I was only convinced after a machinist buddy let me use a 4 foot starrett for the job.

A $60 veritas edge is fine, too - it doesn't take starrett - but contesting that a fine straight edge is a waste of money in every case is not true.

Jeff Norri

11-17-2007, 11:17 AM

I use the Lee valley (Veritas) Straught edge

http://www.leevalley.com/images/item/woodworking/markmeasure/05n6301s3.jpg

The reference edge is machined flat to within 0.003" over the entire length. Good enough for me. the 60" version is about $70.

Gary Keedwell

11-17-2007, 11:19 AM

Fortunately, measuring arbor runout and other unnecessary fussing with your machines thinking it'll improve your work is a stage we all went through and you'll grow out of. Trusting your eyes and hands working with wood beats anything Starrett sells for machinists hands down.

Well, that is your opinion and I respect that. Alot depends on your applicacation of said straightedge. If your just building things like a carpenter, sure, a $20 piece of aluminumm extrusion may suffice.
But if your going to do fine woodworking where everybody can see your joints....
Years ago I had a jointer that would not mill a straight edge. I paid big money for a 4' level at the Borg. I came home every nite from work and fiddled & diddled with that jointer till I was almost ready for the "funny farm." After my delivery of my Starrett straightedge, 2 weeks later, it took me all of 5 minutes to find my problem.(Outfeed table was dipping but didn't show on "expensive level").
I now use my straight-edge as the "Standard" in my shop to which I check all my other tools and occasionally the wood itself.
There is a "feeling" that I have ...just knowing it is there when I need it. I even made a special box to protect it.
Gary

Dan Barr

11-17-2007, 12:08 PM

For what its worth, i agree that to have the starrett is something that keeps me from going to the funny farm as well. I have an aluminum extrusion that is plenty accurate for woodworking in general, but just not good enough for setting up the jointer. close, but not good enough.

I had the same problem actually. my infeed had a slight dip and without the starrett i could not compensate for it. with the aluminum edge, i just kept getting a slight convex or concave surface and could never tweak the little bit that i needed. (.001-.003 max; nothing to worry about really) i put the starrett on there and PRESTO! i was able to get perfect straight edges over and over again.

I only paid 147.00 for my 36" starrett straight edge, but, over the long run its more than worth it. I had to argue with myself for a few days before i could let myself buy it. i really didnt think spending that much money on a straight edge would ever be justified. but i found that i use it more than i thought i would and feel much more comfortable with the purchase now.

I also use it as the standard in the shop for lots of things and that makes the difference.

However, I do agree with Bob Smalser to a large extent. trusting my hands and my experience is plenty good enough. I know that i can produce quality pieces, edges, joints, etc without the starrett or anything else that meets that exacting of a standard. Its only personal preference that really drove me to get the thing.

If youre just as persnickety as me and/or dont mind the cost, then by all means, go ahead and get one. If you know it's not necessary and your happy with the work you can do on your own, dont even think twice about it.

v/r

dan

Rob Will

11-17-2007, 2:47 PM

I still like having a really nice straight edge. If you want to take a big machine tool apart for maintenance, it's nice to be able to use something with a crisp machined edge to check against when you go back together. No I'm not in need of sub-thousandth accuracy, in fact, more ofen than not I just use a bright light behind the straight edge to see if the table is flat. The very square machined edge of the Starrett works best. My aluminum level is sometimes too wide and those less expensive rulers are a bit floppy.

Yes, 90% of woodworking is in hand and eye skills, design, wood selection, etc. Having said that, if my jointer tables are out of paralell and all I have to do is turn a screw to get back on track, why not? If my table saw needs a shim on one corner, why not? At least when something does not fit, I'll know it was my screw up and not the machine.

In one way of looking at this, when a beginner takes the time to better understand machines and dial them in, he becomes more confident. He might make that next joint fit just a little better, or make the next wide glue-up just a bit flatter. In time, the beginner and his shop machines become one. He understands thier limitations and hopefully his own. The trusty old straight edge now just hangs on the wall - waiting to mediate the next dispute between man and machine.

Rob

Gary Keedwell

11-17-2007, 3:32 PM

A lot of people thing you don't need precision in woodworking but when they run their fingers across a surface and feel a mismatch they sand or scrap it out. That mismatch may only be 0.002" to 0.004". They are working closer than they realize;)

Gary

Dixon Peer

11-18-2007, 12:02 PM

For woodworking, absolutely. For machine setup, such as jointer alignment, no. Most "normal" 4' levels are not straight enough for that task, even before you drop them. You truely need to check the edge first as described in Jay's reply before you depend upon it...

It's truly ;)

Paul B. Cresti

11-18-2007, 1:41 PM

Looking for a source for a 4' steel straight edge. Spendy aren't they.

Mark,
Not sure what you need the steel edge for but if all you require is straight edge for setting something up or other needs AND it does not require to be steel...make yourself one on your slider out of 3/4 mdf. I needed to realign my jointer bed some time ago and tormented myself on whether or not to waste all that money on steel edge (starret, bridge city, Mcmaster,etc...) Instead I listened to another fellow ww'r and ripped a 6ft x 6" wide straight edge out of 3/4" MDF on my slider....it worked perfectly!

Gary Keedwell

11-18-2007, 1:47 PM

Mark,
Not sure what you need the steel edge for but if all you require is straight edge for setting something up or other needs AND it does not require to be steel...make your one yourself on your slider out of 3/4 mdf. I needed to realign my jointer bed some time ago and tormented myself on whether or not to waste all that money on steel edge (starret, bridge city, Mcmaster,etc...) Instead I listened to another fellow ww'r and ripped a 6ft x 6" wide straight edge out of 3/4" MDF on my slider....it worked perfectly!
That's funny ... I have the opposite problem : I have a straightedge and don't know if I want to waste all that money on a slider.:rolleyes::D

Gary

Cliff Rohrabacher

11-18-2007, 2:41 PM

While your at the MSC site, do a search for Pre-Hardened Ground Flat Stock. A 36" x 3" x 1/4" piece is $77. Lots of other sizes also.

Brian :)

That is a nice balance between easiest, best, & cheapest as solutions go - so long as you bear in mind that the grinders use magnetic chucks that will pull the stock down against a bow or warp in the steel. When the mag is released the stock will spring back. So trusting them it should be entered into with just a pinch of salt until you figure out whether that occurred to your steel bar. Even if it did, it is correctable using a mild steel bar and some lapping compound

Gary Keedwell

11-18-2007, 2:51 PM

That is probably the easiest best & cheapest solution I have heard of.
Be careful of the specs. before you buy stock like that. It is possible to have it ground to within say .001 for the whole length, but that doesn't guarantee straightness. There is a world of difference between ground parallel and ground straight. There is a different methods for grinding parallel and grinding straight. One is more involved, hence the price difference.

Gary

Dave Lehnert

11-18-2007, 7:43 PM

I've never needed such an expensive straight edge in my 20 years of woodworking. I just use a standard steel yard stick from Sears.
Anytime I think I may need an expensive tool I think back to my uncle and how he could do woodworking like no other. All he owned was a hand saw, hammer and a folding ruler. I would give anything to be a woodworker like that.

Jim Becker

11-18-2007, 8:42 PM

Bob Smalser

11-18-2007, 9:18 PM

If your just building things like a carpenter, sure, a $20 piece of aluminumm extrusion may suffice.
But if your going to do fine woodworking where everybody can see your joints....

That's me, all right. Just a glorified form carpenter. ;)

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/7711190/103436222.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/7711190/101677477.jpg

Best in Show awards and financial success are beyond my wildest dreams.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/4518261/56509953.jpg

Rebuilding old iron is one thing, but woodworking and basic machine setup...even the jointer... is another. Now, I might write this silly Starrett commercial off to unique, obsessive personalities if y'all are also correcting the grain runout in all your stock in both dimensions so it moves seasonally to a uniform geometric standard equal to the tolerances you think you are achieving.

But you're probably not. You're probably using your stock in whatever configuration it was milled at, and your wood is moving not only more seasonally than the tolerances you are bragging on, but it's moving unequally along its length to greater than those tolerances.

Moreover, if you are also following today's common Normite tradition of not thinking past your nose to the guy who has to repair or restore your work some day, and are using nonrepairable glues, finishes difficult to remove, nails where there should be screws and gizmo joinery, then none of this matters because your work won't survive long enough for you to have an impact.

Recommending someone throw money at their perceived shortcomings is common enough today, but never works.

Gary Keedwell

11-18-2007, 9:37 PM

Best in Show awards and financial success are beyond my wildest dreams.

Wow...and your modest.too:rolleyes::)

IIRC We are talking about straight edges. Using a carpenters tool to adjust machinery is not a wise choice. Also, demeaning other woodworker's, like Norm, does not reflect well IMNSHO.

Gary

Bob Smalser

11-18-2007, 10:18 PM

... demeaning other woodworker's, like Norm, does not reflect well IMNSHO.

"Carpenter" was your thought, not mine. I'm a boat carpenter. Norm'd be the first to tell you he's a finish carpenter by trade, and that's how he builds. I doubt he owns a Starrett either. I guess that makes neither of us are capable of "...fine woodworking where everybody can see your joints....".

Gary Keedwell

11-18-2007, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted By Bob Smalser
Moreover, if you are also following today's common Normite tradition of not thinking past your nose to the guy who has to repair or restore your work some day

:D:D:D Wow, first knocking ...then aligning yourself, with Normy. :>).

Whatever...Don't want a rock throwing contest. Nobody here, me included, were knocking carpenters. All were talking about is straightedges. There are many levels of woodworkers. There are many level of carpenters. There are many tools of varying accuracy. I had my trusty carpenters level for years and figured it would be good enough to set my jointer tables co-plane. After a week of frustration I finally ordered a starrett straightedge.
Buying another Starrett tool wasn't a stretch for me because in a prior life I was a 1st class machinist. Not a CNC machinist, but an old fashioned hands-on type machinist.
Maybe most hobbyist woodworkers would find the price high but now manufacturers are making good straightedges at a fair price. Lee Valley is one. All I can say is ....use the right tool for the right job.

PS. I am proud to be a Normite.

Gary

Grant Vanbokklen

11-18-2007, 11:32 PM

All he owned was a hand saw, hammer and a folding ruler. I would give anything to be a woodworker like that.

Give me all your best power tools and then I'll give you a hand saw, hammer, and a folding ruler :p

sorry couldn't resist

Gary Keedwell

11-19-2007, 3:24 PM

Give me all your best power tools and then I'll give you a hand saw, hammer, and a folding ruler :p

sorry couldn't resist
LOL That's a good one. But I really do admire people who can make alot of stuff with limited resources.

Gary

Dave Lehnert

11-19-2007, 5:36 PM

Give me all your best power tools and then I'll give you a hand saw, hammer, and a folding ruler :p

sorry couldn't resist

Yes! But it’s not the tools, it’s the knowledge.

Sorry! Couldn't resist

Dave Lehnert

11-19-2007, 5:42 PM

Dave, the one thing that some folks want a very accurate straight edge for isn't to do anything with wood, per se...it's to do machine setup and maintenance, particularly with regard to table alignment on tools like the jointer.
Jim!

My point was the old time woodworkers did not need one because they did not use or depend on a power tool like a jointer. Just good old woodworking wisdom.

Chris Padilla

11-19-2007, 5:58 PM

I don't know if anyone noticed that is is an OLD thread being brought up from 2004! Since then, I've acquired the 50" aluminum straight-edge from Veritas/Lee Valley. It is great for setting up jointer knives as I like to adjust the table such that the knives just barely nick the straight-edge. You will not want to do that with a steel straight-edge!! ;)

I think straight-edges are great--once you have one you'll find all kinds of great uses for it.