Cherry Blotching

[Ted Shrader]

All -

I am building a cherry bed room set for daughter and son-in-law for a wedding present. The bed (headboard and footboard) is just about ready for finish.

I have heard some "horror" stories about cherry blotchiness. Have read that a thinned coat of varnish will help seal the wood prior to staining. Any thoughts on how much to thin the varnish or using a very light cut of shellac prior to the application of stain? Would BLO do the same type of "sealing"?

Thanks,
Ted

[Jim Becker]

Ted, the "splotch" that some folks refer to is the effect caused by oil or stain being absorbed to different degrees by different areas of the figure in the wood. While cherry is most often cited for this, other woods such as maple can have the same characteristics. This is really more of a religious issue rather than a real problem. If you don't like the look that the figure imparts under your finish, you need to finish it differently.

For those who choose to pre-treat in an effort to mitigate so-called "blotch" of your stain, you can use a commercial pre-treatment or a very, very thin application of shellac or other clear finish. Very thin is the operative as you just want to seal the deep pores. But even a thin coat effectively changes your stain into a glaze since it's not going to actually get to the wood. BLO will not work as a pre-conditioner; in fact, it will also exhibit the uneven absorbtion.

The best thing to do is use some representative samples of the same stock you are building your project from and do some test cases...use your complete finishing regemine on each sample start to finish, both with and without the pre-treatment. They judge which look you like the most. You should also try a WB dye as an alternative to a "stain" if you really have to put color on your cherry. It often is more forgiving when it comes to absorbtion in the figure and may release you from having to pre-treat like you may with a stain.

Personally, I only put an application of BLO on cherry followed by a seal coat of garnett shellac. If a harder top-coat is necessary, I'll put it on. (I use de-waxed shellac which is compatible with just about anything) Some decorative items only get the BLO and wax. I don't put any stains or dyes on cherry as it tends to take away the things I like best about cherry.

Steve Mickley has some great finishing advice for cherry on his website...unfortunately, I don't have the URL with me. Maybe Donnie or someone else can help out there.

[Lee Schierer]

All -

I am building a cherry bed room set for daughter and son-in-law for a wedding present. The bed (headboard and footboard) is just about ready for finish.

I have heard some "horror" stories about cherry blotchiness. Have read that a thinned coat of varnish will help seal the wood prior to staining. Any thoughts on how much to thin the varnish or using a very light cut of shellac prior to the application of stain? Would BLO do the same type of "sealing"?

Thanks,
Ted
I'm not sure why you're staining cherry, but instead of thinned shellac, which will seal the wood, try MinWax wood conditioner. It is specifically made to eliminate blotchiness during staining. I know it works well on maple and pine. I've never stained cherry, but it should work well on it as well. Just follow the directions on the can and you should do fine.

Wood Conditioner (http://www.minwax.com/products/woodprep/prestain.cfm)

[Bill Sampson]

Ted, I took a finishing class last spring at Bartley in Md. To prevent blotching, specifically on cherry, they recommend a coat of gel varnish and before it drys, apply your selected stain. You may have to add another coat of stain to accquire the desired color. I am not comfortable with gel finishes, but tried this method on a cherry piece and it worked. In fact, very well. As Jim advised, completely finish a test piece first. Bill Sampson, Richmond

[Richard McComas]

This is the web site Jim was refering to.
http://www.johnjacobmickley.net/Woodshop.htm

[Ted Shrader]

All -

Thanks for the info. I jus don't have much experience w/ cherry. Only have made a coupl other pieces from it and they just have Watco on them.

Why stain? Well that's what the customers (the kids) want! I tried to tell them about the natural aging and patina, but . . . they are young and want it a little darker now. They will come to appreciate it in time.

Will make several samples for selection, including just oiled w/ homebrew as final coat(s).

Thanks,
Ted

[Roger Myers]

Ted,
as you are doing your test pieces, also place a sample or two (with & without oil finish, etc) out in the sunlight for a day or two...the initial aging of the cherry happens very quickly (and continues to develop over time) - your "clients' might be pleased with the resulting effect. I know that I had the exact same discussion with my daughter when I did her cherry/maple bookcase (pics in archives)..... it's been in her room now for several months, and she is very pleased with the natural aging - initially her opinion seemed much like your clients. Cherry is my favorite material to work with and I just hate the thought of staining it...but the client is the boss...

Roger

[Mark Stutz]

Ted,
Although I have not tried it, I believe David Marks has used Potassium Dichromate to "age the wood, and then applied his usual finish. I know the powder is considered toxic, but apparently ok when dissolved. I have no idea where to get it though. I have also read about using lye to age cherry, though I believe you nedd to neutralize the extreme basic nature with a weak acid such as vinegar. Again, never tried it, just read about it as an alternative to stain.
Mark

[Ted Shrader]

Thanks all.

Looked over the referenced website and read a couple of other articles about gel. Also though about the "sun" thing. Hopefully there will be one of those available this spring! ;)


With your advice, it should come out to their satisfaction. Will post pictures in a couple of weeks when the finish is on.

Ted

[Donnie Raines]

Ted, I took a finishing class last spring at Bartley in Md. To prevent blotching, specifically on cherry, they recommend a coat of gel varnish and before it drys, apply your selected stain. You may have to add another coat of stain to accquire the desired color. I am not comfortable with gel finishes, but tried this method on a cherry piece and it worked. In fact, very well. As Jim advised, completely finish a test piece first. Bill Sampson, Richmond
Bill, that a pretty interesting application. I have never tried that, but, the stories I have read about gel varnish is that it is very prone to flaking off. The gel varnish simply "floats" on the surface of the cherry when cured....thus it does not penetrate into the fibers of the lumber..be it cherry, maple or oak for that matter.

Again, I have not tried that, but I am a bit sceptical of that application due to the manner in which that gel varnish dries.

DonnieR

[Alan Turner]

I was worried about blotching on a cherry sidebord I did, and sought the advise of Jeff Jewitt, which I followed. Thin soome gloss varnish (no flatteners) with naptha, and sand it in with 320 wet dry, and wipe off. Let dry very thoroughly. Then, if you want to add color, use a toned dewaxed shellac. On my website (belwo) is the piece, done this way, including the figured cherry drawerfronts, which are esp. prone to blotching.

[Howard Acheson]

Here is some info that may be helpful.

There are two basic types of "pre-stain conditioners". One is a thin coat of a standard finish. For example, many use a 1/2# cut "spit" coat of shellac. Let it dry and lightly sand with 220 paper. The shellac is absorbed into the areas that will tend to absorb more stain. The sanding opens up the pores of the harder wood while leaving the shellac in the more absorbent areas. This tends to allow the stain to be absorbed more evenly.

The second is basicly a mineral spirits and linseed oil. This is applied and the stain applied right after while the conditioner is still wet. The theory is that the MS/linseed oil is absorbed into the more absorbent areas and this minimizes the absorbsion of stain in these areas.

Neither process is garrenteed to prevent uneven absorbsion of stain. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't.

Any finish that darkens or colors the wood will be absorbed unevenly if the wood has that propensity. Just wipe your item with plain mineral spirits and you will have a preview of how the wood will look with a clear, oil based finish.

Finally, if you are using a wood like cherry, pine, poplar, maple, birch, etc., expect uneven coloring. It is a characteristic of the wood. We tend to celebrate the varying coloring in certain woods, like zebra maple but we seem to not want to celebrate the natural coloring of other woods like cherry.

ALWAYS, always test your finishing process on some scrap wood from the actual project. Go throught the whole process to final finish. Try different options. Then decide what you want to do. No surprises.