What do you think about an Electrical SubForum?

[Rob Russell]

There are a lot of posts that come up about electrical topics, wiring workshops, etc.

What do you think about the idea of a separate Electrical Forum for posts that are specific to the topic of wiring, motors, and all stuff electrical?

Rob

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I'd be for it, threads fall of into obscurity so often here in this catagory, because of the volume, that it seems like another catagory would help.

[Rick Christopherson]

As I stated in my posting that prompted your question, it isn’t so much that we need a separate forum, as it is we need consistency in how these questions are handled.

It seems as though the philosophy of the forum changes every few months. Even though these questions are directly germane to woodworking and/or woodworking tools, some months the topics are OK for the general forum, and other months, they get relocated to the “off-topic” forum.

These are not off-topic questions, so I disagree with forum administration moving them to the off-topic forum. Either these questions should be left on the General Woodworking and Tools forum, or they should have their own forum. It is the constant waffling back and forth that makes this most confusing.

[Bruce Page]

I think we have too many forums already.
18 forums not counting the manufacturing forums.

[Rob Will]

I think it is a good idea for those hard core electrical only questions. When it comes to things like "what kind of blade kerf can my TS run?", that often leads to issues of horsepower or electrical wiring.

My guess would be if the question has to do with multiple questions (including electrical) about a specific tool.....then we continue to handle that in General Woodworking.

If the question has only to do with the electrical aspects of a particular tool or machine, that would most likely go in the "Electrical" subforum.

If electrical is part of a broader topic such as a "shop tour", it stays in General Woodworking.

If the post has only to do with the electrical aspects of a shop, it goes to Electrical.

I suppose we could try it and see how it goes.(???)
JMVHO,

Rob

[Rob Russell]

As I stated in my posting that prompted your question, it isn’t so much that we need a separate forum, as it is we need consistency in how these questions are handled.


Actually Rick, I've been thinking about this for awhile. There have been a lot posts I've responded to with similar information about wiring codes. Electrical information is somewhat specific and I just feel it could be segregated into its own forum quite effectively.

[Randall Davis]

There are a lot of posts that come up about electrical topics, wiring workshops, etc.

What do you think about the idea of a separate Electrical Forum for posts that are specific to the topic of wiring, motors, and all stuff electrical?

Rob

I think it would be dangerous. Electrical questions should not be answered by woodworkers. If you need electrical advise you need to be certain it is correct.

[Randall Davis]

Actually Rick, I've been thinking about this for awhile. There have been a lot posts I've responded to with similar information about wiring codes. Electrical information is somewhat specific and I just feel it could be segregated into its own forum quite effectively.

While you have offered many useful electrical suggestions some of them have not been correct. A woodworkers form is not the place for electrical questions. Talk to your local inspector if you have electrical questions.

[Rob Will]

I think it would be dangerous. Electrical questions should not be answered by woodworkers. If you need electrical advise you need to be certain it is correct.

There are several electricians and electrical engineers around here. If you don't believe it, just say someting that one of them does not agree with:o.

Rob

[Rick Christopherson]

Yes, I fully agree that there are many discussions that rightfully belong in a specific electrical subforum. What I strongly oppose is when someone asks a question about how to connect a specific tool to a power supply, and then that topic gets relocated to the off-topic forum.

There are a lot of people that learn from discussions such as this example, but if they get segued to a separate forum, the information gets lost.

As another poster stated, there are too many forums already. However, given the choice between having the forum administration moving these questions to the off-topic forum versus having their own forum, then I would vote for their own forum.

Personally, I would like to see this practice of relocating threads curtailed a little bit. Unless it is an obvious infraction, threads in the general discussion forum should remain in the general discussion forum.

[Randall Davis]

There are several electricians and electrical engineers around here. If you don't believe it, just say someting that one of them does not agree with:o.

Rob

No offense to Rob Russel but he could be mistaken for an electrician by someone who does not know any better. He is clearly interested in electricity and pretty knowledgable but it is also clear to me that he is not an electrician. How would electrical advise be verifiable in a forum like this?

[Rick Christopherson]

While you have offered many useful electrical suggestions some of them have not been correct. A woodworkers form is not the place for electrical questions. Talk to your local inspector if you have electrical questions.Oh my young skywalker ;), trust me, if Rob or anyone else on the forum states something that is not correct, it is very quickly turned into a learning experience for everyone. :D I am an electrical engineer with quite a bit of knowledge of code, and even I have been taken to task quite vigorously if I mis-state information.

There are enough electrical experts on this forum that misinformation does not last very long. If there was a specific forum for electrical questions, this correction-time would be even faster.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

No offense to Rob but he could be mistaken for an electrician by someone who does not know any better. He is clearly interested in electricity and pretty knowledgable but it is also clear to me that he is not an electrician. How would electrical advise be verifiable in a form like this?


How is any information you get on the internet verifiable?


Not trying to be a jerk, but that's the reality of picking up information on the internet. A lot of "urban legends"...misinformation...rumors and plain old fashioned lies on the internet and they are spread as the gospel truth.

[Jason Beam]

For it if it were to remain open to all members.

Against it if it's a contributor-only thing.

My position may seem to stem from obvious reasons, i suppose, being a non-contributor.

I really love the vast knowlege that you electrical guys put out there. It's really something that I think everyone deserves to see, IMHO. Do the regular electrical gurus that post here also post on that other Electrical-only forum (i forget the name)?

[Randall Davis]

How is any information you get on the internet verifiable?


Not trying to be a jerk, but that's the reality of picking up information on the internet. A lot of "urban legends"...misinformation...rumors and plain old fashioned lies on the internet and they are spread as the gospel truth.


My point exactly! Bad advise on how to make a mortise and tenon joint or other woodworking tips probably does not have the same potential for bodily harm (or worse) that bad electrical advise does..

[Rob Will]

No offense to Rob but he could be mistaken for an electrician by someone who does not know any better. He is clearly interested in electricity and pretty knowledgable but it is also clear to me that he is not an electrician. How would electrical advise be verifiable in a form like this?

Hi Randall, what I was getting at was that by posting electrical questions and answers everybody learns. If anybody says something that is wrong or dangerous the pros will jump on it....and quick.

So now you have really got my curosity up: Have I said something that would lead to a dangerous situation? Not trying to start something, I REALLY want to know.

Rob

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I think it would be dangerous. Electrical questions should not be answered by woodworkers. If you need electrical advise you need to be certain it is correct.

Hey Randall, some woodworkers happen to be experts in this field too.

[Randall Davis]

Oh my young skywalker ;), trust me, if Rob or anyone else on the forum states something that is not correct, it is very quickly turned into a learning experience for everyone. :D I am an electrical engineer with quite a bit of knowledge of code, and even I have been taken to task quite vigorously if I mis-state information.

There are enough electrical experts on this forum that misinformation does not last very long. If there was a specific forum for electrical questions, this correction-time would be even faster.


A single question can generate 15 diffrent answers in some casesd. Which ones should be trusted? I thing any advise you get here should be verified with a certified electrician or local inspetor in your area. I see more wrong answers as related to electric installation than in any other subject.

[Rick Christopherson]

No offense to Rob but.......I knew I recognized this name, but I haven't seen it in a while, and I had to go look it up. The only time you come out of the woodwork is to criticize others. The last time out, you attacked me, now you are attacking Rob (although not as venomously). You participate in electrical threads, but you never provide any substance to the discussion.

You are the model of the very criticism you just levied. If you know so much, then why don't you substantiate any of the discussions or contraventions that you have claimed?

From my research, you appear to be a well hidden alias for someone else. In either case, you are not beneficial to the forum.

[Greg Funk]

A woodworkers form is not the place for electrical questions. Talk to your local inspector if you have electrical questions.
It's far easier to throw a question up on a board like this than to try and get an answer from an electrical inspector. With a community as large and diverse as this one there is no shortage of knowledgeable EEs and electricians. You may get a few differing opinions here and there but I would say 99% of people get reasonable, sound advice and it's quick and free.

Greg

[Rob Will]

I knew I recognized this name, but I haven't seen it in a while, and I had to go look it up. The only time you come out of the woodwork is to criticize others. The last time out, you attacked me, now you are attacking Rob (although not as venomously). You participate in electrical threads, but you never provide any substance to the discussion.

You are the model of the very criticism you just levied. If you know so much, then why don't you substantiate any of the discussions or contraventions that you have claimed? Several months ago, I read through every one of your postings, and the only thought I could come up with was, "troll".

From my research, you appear to either be a troll, or a well hidden alias for someone else. In either case, you are not beneficial to the forum.

I volunteer. Randall, please review anything I have said about electricity and post it here. NOTHING would be better than to find a better / safer way to do things. I really want to know.

EDIT Ohhhh.......you were talking about that other Rob?

Rob

[Rick Christopherson]

I volunteer...I'll stand as well. Randall has specifically stated in the past that I too have stated erroneous information, but he has never stated what that was. I make mistakes just like any other human, but when I make a mistake, people are usually more critical to point it out, so I would like to know what undocumented mistakes I have made.

[Greg Peterson]

I agree that there are too many forums already. Some are obviously not used very much and perhaps they could be replaced with forums that would get used.

Let's see:
Project Plans - 82 threads
CNC Machines - 50 threads
Sign Design and Fabrication - 149 threads
Woodworking Articles and Reviews - 18 threads

It's pretty obvious these threads don't garner a lot of attention. I'd wager that an electrical forum would generate more than 18 threads.

While we're on the topic, DC could also get it's own forum.

At least put power tools into a separate forum.

The General woodworking and Power Tools forum is a little to general, IMO. Looking at the thread counts for the existing forums, it seems that creating some new forums would spread the use out a little more evenly and might reduce redundant threads. If one had an electrical question they could quickly and easily scroll through an electrical forum. The current forum configuration makes it easier to just start a new thread on the subject rather than look through thread headers to see if something looks promising.

[Rob Will]

Greg is right, Electrical and DC sure covers a lot of bandwidth.

On the other hand, we post things to General Woodworking because we want a LOT of people to see it and chime in. For example: just the other day I posted an OT question in GWW about theater design. We all knew it needed to end up in OT but the mods let it live for a day until I got an answer (At that point, I actually requested that it be moved).

So now I'm riding the fence.

Sometimes we just want to surf and post in a busy forum. Sometimes we just need a quick answer on various topics and GWW is where a lot of people will see it.

Rob

[Joseph Ragsdale]

I think it would make more sense to have a "General Woodworking" and "Power tools and electrical supply" forum rather than having an electrical forum by itself.

I had an electrical thread moved. My thread went down a few roads and is hard to follow, but it does contain useful information.

Rob Russel was kind enough to point me in the right direction.

You can give someone dangerous information regarding the use or misuse of power tools. Describing how to remove the safety guard from a jointer so that it can use wider stock than it was designed for would be one example. Describing how to install a 100 amp sub panel is no more, or less, dangerous.

Common sense, or perhaps practical intelligence, is the greatest defense against accidents and injury. Verifying the information you receive, including from so-called "licensed professionals," can save a lot of time and money.

[Dave MacArthur]

I think we should have a separate electrical forum, for discussions on shop wiring, 220/110, etc.

I respectfully disagree with the idea that since it's possible to read incorrect info here, electrical should not be discussed and you should only get such info from inspectors and licensed electricians. It has no place in an online forums dedicated to sharing/broadening knowledge.

ALL electrical operations that are covered by "code" which would require you to talk to a licensed electrician for correct info are ALREADY governed by multiple layers of LAW. Every city/county/state has legislated EXACTLY what is covered by code, what requires a licensed electrician, and NOTHING we talk about here can ever change that. OF COURSE people should talk to a licensed electrician and/or inspector for some operations, no one has ever suggested otherwise--95% of all threads contain someone recommending a visit to an electrician or inspector! If the code and laws are not good to get folks to comply, then no censorship on knowledge applied here will do it.

But before I waste my valuable time, and an inspectors, in the one of the largest cities in the US, and show up, "Uhhhh, I want to like, wire my shop or something?" and get kicked out,
OR say the same thing to an electrical contractor and end up paying 5 times more than I needed to...

I'd like to CHAT about it with others who have walked the same path, done the same task, can recommend various options to decide on BEFORE visiting the inspector/contractor, etc... It is the height of foolishness to abdicate personal responsibility for KNOWING as much as you can about things that cost you a lot of money or involve safety. This applies to my personal medical condition, the structure of my house, the quality and correctness of my auto repairs, and absolutely to my shop electrical as well.

A separate forum would be beneficial to those (almost all of us at one time or another) who are modifying a shop for new equipment, and allow some decent stickies to be made with common questions, etc.

[Rob Will]

If we had an electrical forum, we could post polls with electrical questions to see how many of us gets the correct answer on the first try.

Calculators, NEC Books and Phone a Friend will be permitted.:cool:

We get Alex Trebek to be moderator and the models from Deal or No Deal to hand out prizes.

Rob

[Mike Cutler]

A single question can generate 15 diffrent answers in some casesd. Which ones should be trusted? I thing any advise you get here should be verified with a certified electrician or local inspetor in your area. I see more wrong answers as related to electric installation than in any other subject.

Randall

I would suggest that you might want to check out Mike Holt's forum.
This forum is populated by liscensed electricians from all over the US. It is also populated by Liscensed PE's, State inspectors, NEC Code topic instructors, NEC Instructor trainers, and folks that actually write the changes to the NEC.
Guess what, The same thing happens there on a lot of topics also.
I'm going to assume that you have/had a liscense, and while I have seen some flat out incorrect answers, and solutions. The majority of the discussions seem to point out the inconsistent application and interpertation of the code in different areas of the country. What passed an inspection in say, Springfield Missouri, may not pass an inspection in Boston Massachussetts,or Hartford Connecticut, or Sacremento California, exactly as done in Springfield Missouri.



Rob

I don't know that we need another forum, as much as we may need a series of articles on the topic.
Many questions are the same basic questions, and I think that any mechanism that aids a search function would be of great benefit. I also agree with Rick, and would like to see the topics stay in the General Forum when they are asked relative to wiring a shop, or a specific machine.
While I understand that any info on code compliance statments in an Article, or new Forum would still be subject to interpertatoin by the local inspectors. I do believe that arming folks with the "basic" info would better prepare them in working towards that end, and not having their shops unnecessarily populated with duplex receptacles not required, at $150.00 per receptacle.( Yes, I've seen this)
It helps if the homeowner/shopowner at least has an idea of what questions to ask an electrician.

[Keith Outten]

I agree that there are too many forums already. Some are obviously not used very much and perhaps they could be replaced with forums that would get used.

Let's see:
Project Plans - 82 threads
CNC Machines - 50 threads
Sign Design and Fabrication - 149 threads
Woodworking Articles and Reviews - 18 threads

It's pretty obvious these threads don't garner a lot of attention. I'd wager that an electrical forum would generate more than 18 threads.

While we're on the topic, DC could also get it's own forum.

At least put power tools into a separate forum.

The General woodworking and Power Tools forum is a little to general, IMO. Looking at the thread counts for the existing forums, it seems that creating some new forums would spread the use out a little more evenly and might reduce redundant threads. If one had an electrical question they could quickly and easily scroll through an electrical forum. The current forum configuration makes it easier to just start a new thread on the subject rather than look through thread headers to see if something looks promising.

In all fairness every Forum here had only 18 threads at one time and two of the Forums listed above are very new here and haven't had time to grow. I remember when we were discussing moving the Turning threads to their own Forum when they were part of GWW, this caused quite a stink with a small group here. Obviously the Turners Forum has become very popular and I would expect that the primary reason for its huge growth rate is due to our Turners having their own space.

The articles forum here has not grown because only a very small percentage of our Community have been willing to volunteer their time to contribute in this area. At some point in time I expect this will change and the Articles and Reviews Forum will grow very quick, it just takes a spark to start a fire. It seems to me that there is an excellent opportunity for someone to write articles about Electrical issues right now, the topic seems to have become very popular.

Concerning moving threads we try to find the best fit and truth be known we don't really move that many threads as far as I know. We currently average about one hundred new threads and over 3,000 new posts per day. Surely we will make an error every now and then but we often admit our mistakes when they are brought to our attention and correct them ASAP.

I doubt that any woodworker would consider the electrical side of equipment as a minor issue after taking a moment to ponder how important it is to their shop output and personal safety. I know that in my workshop there is very little activity when we experience a power outage in our area. Safety has to be paramount in any shop whether it is commercial or hobby and each of us must deal with the electrical aspect of our facilities whether we like it or not and whether we posses the appropriate level of skill or not. I prefer to consult one of my friends who is a licensed Master Electrician whenever a situation is beyond my capability which is the majority of the time with electrical problems.

If there is enough support here for a new Electrical Forum then you shall have it, the topic is clearly as important to all of us as any other even though many of us take it for granted the majority of the time because electricity is our silent but deadly partner. Thanks to all of you Sparktricians for keeping the current flowing, it is the life's blood of America IMO.

.

[Mitchell Andrus]

Good idea for electrical questions that relate directly to power tools. Bad idea for electrical questions that relate to home or shop wiring.

There are forums out there for that already, with better answers too.

[Jason Roehl]

I dunno...I was thinking that, based on some of the electrical threads I've read in the past that electrical topics should get lumped with politics and religion--i.e., VERBOTEN. :D :cool:

Forum, no forum...I use "New Posts", so I don't even notice when there is a new forum created.

[Jack Briggs]

I think we have too many forums already.
18 forums not counting the manufacturing forums.


Bruce,

If you think we here at SMC have a lot of forums, check out cnczone.com




I think an electrical subforum would be a good idea, based upon the number of threads in that area. Maybe with a disclaimer attached........

[Jim Becker]

Folks, Keith has indicated that a separate Electrical forum could be possible. But keep in mind that will also require one or more individuals to become moderators...a high paying, fast paced way to become completely endeared to almost 30,000 people and simultaneously disqualify yourself from Free Stuff Drawings at the same time. ;) More forums mean more work, in other words...

Jim
SMC Moderator

[Von Bickley]

I was a certified electrician for over 35 years. I did residential electrical work and industrial electrical & instrumentation. I have worked with single phase systems and three phase systems. I have wired 3 phase motors that were 480 volts and 4160 volts.

I have made a decision not to get involved with any electrical questions on this woodworking forum. There ar too many DIY'ers that appear to know more about electrical work than I do.

I'm going to be like the boy that fell out of the wagon, " I ain't in it."

[Steve Mellott]

I've posted several electrical questions on woodworking websites and have received several different (and sometimes incorrect) answers. Last year, when I built a workshop, I posted all my electrical questions on an "electrical website" which is staffed by licensed electricians. I received some great advice and think electrical questions should be directed to that type of website, not a woodworking website.

[Rob Will]

A lot of electrical questions and answers posted here require a specific knowledge of WW machines.

My shop has dedicated circuits for several motors up to 20 hp in size. Often times, electricians who only do residential electrical are not familiar with the requirements of a serious wood shop or motor control circuits. Around here (SMC)there are several "industrial" electricians and PE's that also happen to be interested in woodworking. It is good practice to ask these folks for a second opinion.

As a homeowner, I do only my own work and have no need to obtain a license. I do however keep a current NEC and a UGLY book on my desk. There is a SqaureD motor circuit guide hanging on the wall in my shop. I reguarly get invited to classes held by our local electrical inspectors (in two different states). I don't need the credits but I go to thier classes anyway. I hang out at the local electric motor shop where they do mostly industrial work and everyone there is a licensed Master Electrician. I buy all of my motor control components (Cutler Hammer) from this shop and sit with these same guys when class rolls around. SMC is just one of the places that I get electrical information. When combined with NEC regulations and professional advice, a woodworker's forum can also be a good resource for electrical info. ;):)

Rob

[Eric Haycraft]

I vote yes.. You could also post a sticky at the top stating that all advice should be verified against the NEC (and the link to it) and/or your local Inspector.

[Peter Quadarella]

Personally, since this is a woodworking forum I don't think electrical questions need a seperate forum (it seems off topic to me except for the occasional question).

The question of safety is a non-starter though in my opinions. There are plenty of possibly dangerous hobbies out there that have forums and people should generally know to be careful of information gleaned on the internet. I have been active in several reloading forums which if done wrong can easily be as dangerous as miswiring something. This has allowed me to be more safe, not less. And, there is no such thing as a licensed reloader (in the U.S.).

[Greg Funk]

What would the benefit of a new electrical forum be?

I sort of understand the dynamics behind having a forum for turners where you have a place for people with similar interests to share their work and questions. I can see a wood turner exclusively looking at posts on their forum and ignoring everything else. For this purpose a separate forum allows people to effectively filter out posts they don't really care about.

I can't really see anyone going exclusively to an electrical forum on a woodworking site. If someone was really interested in electrical issues there are, as others have mentioned, dedicated forums better suited for this.

There are two ways to browse a SMC, by either monitoring a few specific forums or, if one has a broader interest range, to check all new posts. If one is checking new posts then the division of forums is irrelevant. So for those who monitor a few specific forums would having another one to check be beneficial? Would someone get better quality answers to their questions if there was a separate forum?

My vote would be to not add an electrical forum. People get reasonable answers now by posting in gww. Often there is benefit in just hearing from someone who has done something similar in their shop even if they aren't an expert. These types of responses would likely be lost if there was a separate forum.

Greg

[Rob Will]

Let's just call it "WOODSHOP ELECTRICAL".

I think the discussion is more relevant when we are all talking about woodworking tools rather than being on another forum where the discussion covers all things electrical.

Case in point: Not long ago Rick and I got in a discussion about 115V vs 230V for a particular 2 hp table saw. The discussion got pretty "interesting" :p. Well you know what? Rick was right but so was I. Eventually, the discussion led to how electric motor efficiency and service factors greatly impact the amperage requirements of a particular tool. Mike Henderson brought some good information about motor design into the discussion.

Even though Rick and I disagree a little bit about when one should go to 230V, I respect his opinion and try to understand his position. Had this discussion taken place in an "electrical" forum and far removed from the topic of woodworking, would we have had the same opportunity to examine this particular tool? Probably not.

I think "WOODSHOP ELECTRICAL" would be a good home for this.

Rob

[Jason Beam]

The biggest benefit, in my opinion is that people who are woodworkers that post electrical questions here are doing so among similar minded folks. I've been to Mike Holt's forum and honsetly got kind of confused as to where I'd post my woodworking-tool-related question on there. Here, I'd know where to post. And I could pretty well bet that someone else has tackled it before as well, from a woodworker's perspective.

I also see your point about the turners. Turning is kind of a whole separate faction of the woodworking subject as a whole. Well electrical is a pretty small faction in that light and I'd agree with you that a separate forum devoted only to woodworking electrical questions would probably not hold much value.

How about this instead... Shop Setup and Outfitting

In it, you find Dust collection, electrical, tool placement advice ... all those things that are part of the evolution of a shop. It's not much different, then, than a shop tours forum - it isn't quite as restricted as an electrical-only, but it solves one of the biggest problems with electrical questions - they get burried in the GWW forum because it's so dang active. A general Shop Setup forum would be fairly busy, but not so busy that a question asked this morning is 3 pages deep by this evening like can happen in GWW.

Just a thought ... :)

[Greg Funk]

Jason,

I think a you've got a good idea there and would likely get more visits as building a shop is a never ending exercise:). It would also be a good place to include shop tours.

Greg

[Greg Peterson]

Jason, excellent idea. Covers a lot of territory that is germane to just the shop space.

[Rick Christopherson]

By putting electrical discussions into a separate forum, you would effectively be excluding input from people that otherwise have no interest in the topic, but yet still have valuable information.

A simple case in point might be where a woodworker wants to rewire the motor on a specific tool, but the 120/240 diagram is missing from their tool. Another woodworker that actually owns that tool happens to have a photograph of the missing diagram taken from his tool. That person would have clicked on the thread simply because he saw a question about a tool that he owned, but would otherwise never have been interested in an electrical discussion.

That's not a stretch of the imagination; it happens quite often.

[Randall Davis]

I knew I recognized this name, but I haven't seen it in a while, and I had to go look it up. The only time you come out of the woodwork is to criticize others. The last time out, you attacked me, now you are attacking Rob (although not as venomously). You participate in electrical threads, but you never provide any substance to the discussion.

You are the model of the very criticism you just levied. If you know so much, then why don't you substantiate any of the discussions or contraventions that you have claimed?

From my research, you appear to be a well hidden alias for someone else. In either case, you are not beneficial to the forum.


I am a newbie woodworker! I visit this site on ocasion for the woodworking knowledge, my apologiase to any offended by my opinion on the electrical topic. The reason I don't offer electrical advise is for the reasons I have already stated. My advise along with others can not be substantiated here. When it comes to electrical work a person should be talking face to face with a certified person not some name on a computer screen.

[Randall Davis]

Hey Randall, some woodworkers happen to be experts in this field too.

Yes sir! some woodworkers are dentist also but I will not be getting advise on how to do my own dental work.

[Randall Davis]

I've posted several electrical questions on woodworking websites and have received several different (and sometimes incorrect) answers. Last year, when I built a workshop, I posted all my electrical questions on an "electrical website" which is staffed by licensed electricians. I received some great advice and think electrical questions should be directed to that type of website, not a woodworking website.

Bingo! try to substantiate!

[Peter Quadarella]

As I mentioned, there are many hobbies more dangerous than electrical work that are discussed on the internet, and the idea that asking for advice on the topic is somehow bad is malarky. Asking for advice is almost always good, just as giving it is. There is no magic to electricity that requires someone to be licensed in the field to do it (not that it isn't good to consult a professional as usual when doing dangerous work).

If we weren't the do it yourself type of crowd, I doubt we'd be woodworking.

I like the idea of a shop outfitting forum better than an electrical one - it fits the site better.

[Randall Davis]

As I mentioned, there are many hobbies more dangerous than electrical work that are discussed on the internet, and the idea that asking for advice on the topic is somehow bad is malarky. Asking for advice is almost always good, just as giving it is. There is no magic to electricity that requires someone to be licensed in the field to do it (not that it isn't good to consult a professional as usual when doing dangerous work).

If we weren't the do it yourself type of crowd, I doubt we'd be woodworking.

I like the idea of a shop outfitting forum better than an electrical one - it fits the site better.

You clearly have little knowlage of electricity and its potential. Google electrocution and get back to us.

[Greg Funk]

You clearly have little knowlage of electricity and its potential. Google electrocution and get back to us.
Randall,

Everyone is aware electricity can be dangerous. That doesn't mean someone can't seek and receive advice on simple electrical questions on a woodworking forum. After all, it's not rocket science!

Greg

[Lee Koepke]

Randall,

Everyone is aware electricity can be dangerous. That doesn't mean someone can't seek and receive advice on simple electrical questions on a woodworking forum. After all, it's not rocket science!

Greg
but setting up an seperate forum here, doesnt make sense in my opinion.

the questions ultimately get answered, and there is a search function. seperate forums dont help the issue, IMHO ..

[David G Baker]

Jason Beam,
I spend a lot of time on Mike Holt's Forum. A lot of the information goes over my head, especially when they discuss heavy industrial wiring but there is a lot of information that applies to general code work.
I agree with you that getting information from his forum that is aimed at woodworking equipment wiring practices would be difficult. I have not had much luck getting information out of local licensed electricians.

[Mike Henderson]

I don't spend a lot of time on the Turner's forum, but one issue that comes up often in that forum is how to convert a lathe to a 3 phase motor driven by a VFD.

Should questions about that continue to be posted to the turner's forum or should they be posted to the electrical forum (if we decide to have one)?

Mike

[Jason Beam]

Jason Beam,
I spend a lot of time on Mike Holt's Forum. A lot of the information goes over my head, especially when they discuss heavy industrial wiring but there is a lot of information that applies to general code work.
I agree with you that getting information from his forum that is aimed at woodworking equipment wiring practices would be difficult. I have not had much luck getting information out of local licensed electricians.


David, thank you for articulating what i was trying to earlier. I realize the information is there, but it's pretty intimidating to seek it there. It's much easier for me to poke some fellow woodworkers to solve a woodworking problem. And it IS a woodworking problem.

Telling me that asking how I should wire my shop is not woodworking related is like telling me I shouldn't bother to ask about glues since there are adhesive-based forums and those would be the most appropriate places for glue questions.

I also think that a place that will help me with other similar questions like what kind of lighting should I use? Where should a jointer be in relation to my planer or the garage door. I think all of those things are shop questions and would serve a great purpose being organized together since many times all of those things are going on at the same time in a lot of cases.

[Dave MacArthur]

Greg Funk makes a good point up above. I like the idea of a separate forum.... not sure it would actually improve anything, and some potential for reducing visibility/answers on such threads.

[Chris Padilla]

However you want to handle electrical questions on this forum, they should all START in the OT forum, Folks!!

Perhaps it could be a branch in OT to have a "Shop/Tool Wiring" Forum WITH THE CLEAR UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR IN THAT FORUM AND THAT NO ONE POSTING IN THERE IS A LICENSED ELECTRICIAN!!

[Greg Funk]

However you want to handle electrical questions on this forum, they should all START in the OT forum, Folks!!

I guess it's not clear why electrial questions should start in OT. If someone has a question about wiring their unisaw is that not appropriate for discussion in the power tools section?


Greg

[Sam Yerardi]

I'm an electrical engineer like Rick. I would be supportive of the idea. The caviat is that while I can give solid electrical advice on motors, components, etc., I may not be able to give good CODE advice nor would I even try. Two major different arenas and the electrical inspector (and/or experienced electricians that know what the inspector wants on top of Code) in your community is the final word. What works in Massachusetts may not be allowed in another state. And knowing the Code is like learning a tax manual.

[Chris Padilla]

I guess it's not clear why electrial questions should start in OT. If someone has a question about wiring their unisaw is that not appropriate for discussion in the power tools section?


Greg

That would be fine but we get plenty of electrical SHOP wiring questions...I feel they don't belong in the already over-burdened GW/PT forum. Often the simple "how do I wire my TS?" snowballs into a couple pages of OT electrical input....

[Greg Peterson]

You clearly have little knowlage of electricity and its potential. Google electrocution and get back to us.

I've done some work on tube amplifiers. Even built one. Every forum, thread and/or book I've read on tube amp circuits provides the disclaimer that these circuits can kill you if you don't know what you're doing. Was I wrong to service or build my amps because I lacked a degree or certification in electronics?

Every power tool in the shop presents an excellent opportunity to injure ones self. Should we require certification to operate a table saw? Might save hundreds of digits a year.

I see little value in engineering a forum to the lowest common denominator. If that were the case, SMC would have to seriously reconsider many of the forums that involve dangerously powerful tools.

If a local community allows homeowners to do their own wiring, I see little concern in providing an answer to an intelligent question. Some questions I have seen definitely indicated that the person had little or no understanding of the subject. But I have seen many more articulate questions posted where the person was concerned about the code and general best practices. For the homeowner trying to get their shop to pass inspection (certainly a provencial endeavor), SMC is a benefit.

[Rick Christopherson]

I’m changing my position on this situation--not because I think an electrical forum would be better, but because the relocation of this thread is the exact inconsistency that garnered my original comments.

By definition, this thread was off-topic from the general forum to begin with, but it wasn’t moved. It was left on the general forum and moderators even participated in it. Then a day later, it was moved. No other forum on the Internet moves threads around like this. If having a separate electrical forum would alleviate this inconsistency, then I am all for it.

If a thread is topical enough to be posted on a forum, any of them, then it should be topical enough to stay there. To see the extremity of this, I have seen electrical questions posted in the off-topic forum, and forum administration later moved them to the general forum.

If having an electrical forum means that everyone knows that electrical discussions will be in that forum and stay in that forum, then at least it will be consistent.

[Chris Padilla]

Rick,

I guess we mods need a consistent approach to this but it isn't easy I hope you can appreciate. I personally feel there are too many electrical-threaded topics posted in GW/PT but perhaps other mods feel differently.

I apologize for the inconsistency but at least when a thread is moved, you can now access it from two forums...it just doesn't get updated and "moved to the top" in the original forum. :)

[Scott Donley]

Should this thread be in the support forum ? :D Sorry :rolleyes:

[Rob Will]

Rick,

I guess we mods need a consistent approach to this but it isn't easy I hope you can appreciate. I personally feel there are too many electrical-threaded topics posted in GW/PT but perhaps other mods feel differently.

I apologize for the inconsistency but at least when a thread is moved, you can now access it from two forums...it just doesn't get updated and "moved to the top" in the original forum. :)

That is a good point Chris. It is very handy to have a link to the new location. I like that.

Perhaps one side benefit of this approach is that the original post gets a lot of visibility at first. Later on, when the topic dies off a bit, it gets organized to a permanent home.

We all know that electrical questions will continue to be posted in GWW from time to time. I say we create the "Woodshop Electrical" forum simply because it would be a good place to archive electrical information and keep it all together.

When we use the search feature, it will search all forums anyway.

Rob

[Matt Meiser]

[rant on]
I don't think we need an electrical forum any more than we need a block plane forum, a table saw forum, or a lumber rack forum.

In most places homeowner electrical work is legal, like it or not. At least if someone is coming here to get their information they are going to get something better than if they didn't ask at all, which is what people have done in the past (I know, I saw some of it in my old house.)

The only thing that needs to change is the public you-know-what matches between a few people in every electrical thread that pops up. These do nothing to help the people who asked for it. In fact, it probably keeps them from asking the next time.

I don't get why it matters if the mods do a little cleaning up? If you care enough about a thread to want to keep going back to it, bookmark it or subscribe to it.
[rant off]

[Rob Russell]

I've been abnormally quiet in an electrical thread so far ... :D

I understand some of the different perpectives about mixing the threads in the other forums. I guess this would be my recommendation, based on reading all the comments.

Create a subforum called Workshop Electrical.
Have a standard that says posters need to include something in their post that identifies qualifications (what I call the "Addy protocol", and I've been trying to include in my more recent posts).
I realize that the professional sparkies are choosing not to post. It would be nice if some of them would share some of their experience. In the meantime, people are going to continue to post electrical questions on SMC because they are comfortable with the people here. I've posted on Mike Holt and the sparkies can be rather abrupt with non-professionals, despite intelligent questions.
I agree with the concept of some articles or sticky posts with vetted electrical information. That would let people have something to read before they start asking the same questions over and over again.Rob
Addy protocol: unlicensed, homeowner electrician

[Christopher Stahl]

I know many people feel that creating more forums dilutes the information, but as this site grows, so should the forums. There is a lot of information filtering through GWW and can easily get lost. I certainly don't want it to be like cnczone.com, but having few extra forums isn't going to tear this place apart. It's still very easy to keep up using New Posts.

This happens every time somebody suggests a new forum. I certainly remember when the Turning Forum was suggested. I'd say it's pretty good.

I'm fine either way, but I believe Jason's suggestion is a pretty good one. Shop Setup and Outfitting, or something similar would be great and quite active.

I just don't like so many people getting bent out of shape over something so minor. So just relax and enjoy SMC.

By the way, I appreciate the work that the moderators do here. It's not easy, but I know they are doing their best.

[Dennis Peacock]

Figuring out and making "standards" that are hard and fast for topics such as "electrical" are tough calls at times. IMHO, if it's related to a powertool on wiring and such, it needs to be in the GW/PT forum section. If it's related to home or shop "general" wiring, it should be in the OT forum.

I can't say that I'd be for yet another forum section or not. Still thinking this one over just a bit. :)