Suggestions for water based mahog finish

[Mark Bellonby]

Am looking for advice on water based finishes for a set of mahogany built in shelves which I have almost completed. Have depended on laquer, both Deft and spray type in the past, but wish to avoid the smell.

I completed some cherry shop cabinets, which were sealed with thin blonde shellac, then sprayed with Polyacrylic. The result was quite good, and the process pretty easy. I would say the color tone and depth isn't quite as rich as oil/varnish wiping mixtures I've used on small cherry pieces in the past. The best result I've had with finishing was a homemade oil/varnish mix, coated numerous times.

These shelves will be in a library room, and need to have depth and color. I'm willing to spray a stain if necessary, but usually avoid adding color like that. Would like to do water based topcoats, as there is alot of surface area, and I'm spraying HVLP in my shop (no separate finishing room).

Thanks for all suggestions.

[Jim Becker]

Since you are already using the shellac as an early step in your finishing regimen, try an application of BLO first. That will give you the richness that the oil-based finishes you are used to imparted while still allowing you to spray on the water borne product for it's own benefits. (You must use de-waxed shellac under water borne finishes)

Another option is to see how you like some of the newer water borne finishes, like Target Coatings Hybrivar water born alkyd varnish. It's designed specifically to give you the visual benefits of an oil-based product while keeping the VOC low and cleanup easy with water. I've used it with pleasing results on cherry and it will likely look nice on mahogany, too.

But 95% of the time, I do the oil, shellac and Target Coatings USL for furniture.

BTW, the Polycrylic isn't too bad...one of the only Minwax finishes I'll use...but I prefer the Target Coatings products a lot more, both to use, and for the end result.

[Mark Bellonby]

Thanks for the thoughts, Jim. The BLO would have to be wiped on, right? I have lots of surface area. Also, it would extend my finish time.

An option I was thinking about was orange shellac rather than the blonde for a sealer. I could experiment on some scraps.

[Kim Spence]

Mark - You could also try adding a small amount of TransTint or similar product to the USL. I recently finished a project where I added a small amount of Brown Mahogany dye to the USL and was impressed with the depth it added to the overall finish. The key here is that a little dye added to your topcoat will go a long way by the time you layer on several coats.

[Paul Girouard]

I've been using Daly's Aqua Spar varnish Satin , a water borne finish. I roll it on , then brush is out . Has a nice amber cast to it.

I've used it over Maloof's Poly /oil , Amber shellac , and some Minwax stains with no bad effects to the top coat.

Goes on / flows on nice , it can be sprayed , so sez the can , I just don't have spray equipment , someday MAYBE!

I like the coat it imparts. About $75.00 a gallon :eek:

[Mark Bellonby]

Many thanks for the interesting responses; I'll investigate.

Kim - I guess "USL" means the topcoat? Looked up "TransTint", and it was waterbased dye, so I think this is an additive to the water based topcoat?

[Carl Eyman]

I've used Fuhr's #355 with great success. It is water based varnish and dries very scratch resistant. It has been on a dining table I made 5 years ago and still looks fine.

[Ron Coleman]

I've done a number of pieces of mahogany with Deft in the past but in the winter I have to work inside so I use General Finishes HP water based finish.

Below is a picture of a mahogany table I built and finished last fall. I started with a coat of TransTint dark mahogany water stain, brushed on at about 1/2 strength. I topcoated that with Bartleys Pennsylvania Cherry gel stain (oil based) and let the whole thing dry for several days.

I brushed on two coats of General Finishes HP sanding sealer and then four coats of the General Finishes HP top coat in gloss. Final sanding with 600 grit and a rub out with 0000 steel wool and then wax.

If you go with the water stain, wet the wood and allow it to dry several times and sand to raise the grain before you apply the stain.

http://mrcol.freeyellow.com/table2.jpg

[Kim Spence]

Many thanks for the interesting responses; I'll investigate.

Kim - I guess "USL" means the topcoat? Looked up "TransTint", and it was waterbased dye, so I think this is an additive to the water based topcoat?

Mark - Yes, the USL is Target Coating's Ultima Spray Lacquer which is a water based product, I highly recommend it. TransTint is a concentrated dye made by Homestead Finishing and can be mixed with water, alcohol, or lacquer based finishes. When mixing with your topcoat a little goes a long way because you'll likely apply a few coats each which will intensify the color of the previous.

[Mark Bellonby]

Some great input here - very helpful to me. Thanks to all:

Update on the mahog shelf units - I sprayed a base coat of unwaxed Zinnser shellac on all exposed surfaces. This warmed up the wood, and looks promising. Quick, but a nasty job on the inside sections with overspray blowback. The Zinnser can suggests a second coat for mahogany, and I may do this on prominant surfaces.

I have a test sample ongoing. I coated a piece of Mahog plywood with the following:

1. Two coats of shellac, one coat of General Finishes Polyacrylic
2. One coat of shellac, one coat of Poly.
3. One coat of shellac, one coat of dilute water dye, one coat of Poly.
4. One coat of dilute water dye, one coat of Poly.

I will add another coat of Poly to all (only water based USL I have). All look pretty good so far - not suprisingly, the dye had the most effect on bare wood. No. 3 and no. 1 were similar, the dye addition to the shellac sealer having a subtle warming effect.

I don't wish to do a dye because of the work involved on so much square footage, and the mess. But another shellac coat will be pretty rich looking. Die as an admixture to the topcoat is still a possibility.

My next decision is the USL - I need to order a gallon of topcoat at least, and am tending from this forum to one of the following:

General Finishes Polyacrylic
Target Ultima Spray Laquer
Target Hybrivar Varnish

Any comments on the visual differences of these would be appreciated. From what Jim and Kim said, I tend to the Target products. Don't want a plastic look, however.

Thanks again for all the constructive suggestions.

[Jim Becker]

Mark, to clarify, the only "USL" on your list is Target Ultima Spray Lacquer... ;)

I know nothing about the General Finishes product.

The USL is nearly "water clear" and will not generally modify the color outside of the slight darkening you'll get when you add any clear finish from reflection, etc.

Hybrivar is a water borne alkyd varnish and will provide a bit of amber like a regular oil-based alkyd varnish would.

Niether of the Target Coatings finishes contain polyurethane resins. Thankfully! There is no need for polyurethane on furniture unless you plan on walking on it...it's a great floor finish, but has negative features relative to furniture including the possiblity of less clarity. (a more plastic look)

[Mark Bellonby]

Clearly I need a glossary for acronyms on this forum. Took me along time before I figured out what "LOML" stood for. Thanks for the clarification, and info as well. Now I have to research where to get the Target products.