do you draw you own plans?

[keith ouellette]

I have drafted (if you could call my chicken scratch drafting) the plans for the few things I built. I am making the plans for my router table / saw wing/ cabinet now. I have the attention span of a wound up toddler and it makes everything very difficult for me to do. Concentration is not in my vocabulary.

Aside from the lack of attention span do any of you make your own plans?
Do you find it difficult?
Does it get easier the more you do it?

[Jim Becker]

I did "detailed" plans for the cabinetry when I renovated our kitchen back in 2003. It was somewhat necessary at the time, both to insure things fit together right as well as to support my skill level at that point.

These days, I rarely draw anything out in any kind of detail. I sketch some basics and determine major measurements, but from that point, I measure off the work in progress. I would, however, draw something out in detail if it had any kind of complexity.

Given what you indicate, for a straight forward project like your router table, perhaps sketching out the carcass with the primary dimensions followed by working with story sticks will help you move things along. The former insures you get things started with some organization and the latter insures consistency as you move through the project. Your "plan", in effect...is drawn on the stick(s)...

[Fred Voorhees]

I think only once or twice have I actually built something from plans other than those I have sketched out myself. Our sons and his wifes sideboard project, and a coffee table that I built for my Mother in Law are two things that come to mind. Oh, if you include plans for jigs, well, I have done a few of those from plans. Everything else has been drawn out by myself ahead of time to work out the measurements and details.

[Eddie Watkins]

I generally do plans with all the key measurements as reminders as I am assembling. It keeps me from having to worry about the math and the assembly at the same time.

Eddie

[glenn bradley]

If the build is reasonable complex I'll do a Sketch Up just to make chacking and adjusting measurements easier. Once I'm building, my plans are pretty much just notes jotted down for the details as I go.

[David G Baker]

I took drafting courses in High school and 1/4 semester of engineering drawing in college. Before I started any project I would drag out my drafting board and draw the project in exacting detail. It soon dawned on me that I was spending twice the time drawing the project that I did actually building it so the drafting board is out in my pole barn somewhere and I now rough sketch all my projects unless a permit is required.
I have a couple of copies of Auto Cad but couldn't force myself to put in the time to learn the software. I do on occasion use a very basic drawing software to rough out some of my projects.

[Dave Falkenstein]

I am fortunate to have taken a lot of drafting training in high school and college - I have a mechanical engineering degree. I do 2D drawings for just about any project. I use DeltaCAD:

http://www.deltacad.com/

DeltaCAD is inexpensive ($39.95) and is available as a fully functional trial download. There is a 45 day time limit on the trial, so you have plenty of time to try it before you buy it. When you buy it you get a printed manual and a software CD. There is ample online Help (if you know what question to ask). There is a simple tutorial to teach the basics in the trial version. As with all CAD programs, there is a learning curve. I have used DeltaCAD for several years and find it quite useful, especially for filling in dimensions on drawings.

[keith ouellette]

I did "detailed" plans for the cabinetry when I renovated our kitchen back in 2003. It was somewhat necessary at the time, both to insure things fit together right as well as to support my skill level at that point.

These days, I rarely draw anything out in any kind of detail. I sketch some basics and determine major measurements, but from that point, I measure off the work in progress. I would, however, draw something out in detail if it had any kind of complexity.

Given what you indicate, for a straight forward project like your router table, perhaps sketching out the carcass with the primary dimensions followed by working with story sticks will help you move things along. The former insures you get things started with some organization and the latter insures consistency as you move through the project. Your "plan", in effect...is drawn on the stick(s)...

I just saw david Marks (I think thats his name from wood works) last night and he used a story board for dados but I don't think I have ever seen Norm use one. I might try it. I also have to right down directions for my self like "Hey stupid, don't forget to do this before you do that or it won't fit"

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Keith, personally, I've never used anything but my own plans. Depends on the project as to how in depth they are. I like to detail the joinery always, so that I don't have to stop making sawdust and figure miter angles or cut lenghts out. By detailing the joinery, I get a cut list as well.

I get specific on sticky details too, or things I want to see in scale. The curve of the rails on my daughter sleigh bed, or dimension of the foot and head board on our bed, to make sure that all those little slats could be installed after the rails where partly assembled. On those, full scale drawing helped.

I do a lot of scaling up or down, and matching of existing furniture, which creates scetches, which turn into plans. My current project, two tool cabinets to hold my hand tool collection, is on their fifth or sixth revision, even though the cabinets are well on the way. I used a modular approach on these, so that I could redesign on the fly.

Long winded way to say yes, I plan. I think it is the most important step in efficient woodworking. Suprises half way though a project, waste time and money. As you get more experienced though, I think you do more standardizing, say, all dados, rabbets, and sliding dovetails are 3/8", so that you have to spend less time figuring that stuff out. I do like the planning step though, and I suspect most people don't spend as much time on it as I do.

[Peter Quinn]

Took mechanical drawing in school years ago. Have the same attention span presently that you mention. Drawing is a weak spot for me. Have been consciously working to improve my drawing skills using google schetchup, ecabinet systems, and trusty old drafting tools. Found a good refresher class at a local woodcraft with an architect on drawing/design for woodworking. Helped over come inertia considerably. I find the drawing process forces me to consider every aspect of design and construction, saves wood when I step up to the saw. Paper is cheaper than lumber in my area.

In pratice the detail in my drawings depends on the project. Simple utility shop projects get simple drawings (exterior dimensions, critical jointery). All actual measurements come from the actual workpiece. Usually enginered on the fly.

Have a small part time cabinetry/millwork business. Those drawings get complete detail. Often clients want to see renderings before signing a check for deposit. All intersections and reveals need to be worked out on paper to expedite construction/instalation.

Have been making at least one piece of furniture/year with a partner for local art show using air dried locally milled lumber he provides. Those pieces start with chicken scratch on a napkin and evolve without formal drawings as the random rough lumber often provides surprises and rarely conforms to our original thinking. We usually start from the top: ie make the most visable parts first, often the top on a table, grain match, mill, glue, dimension, then prepare legs/aprons accordingly. We let the wood make most of the decisions.

[Dan Barr]

I do my own drawings depending on what the project is and who its for. If its for a client, Yes. makes them feel comfortable and usually sends me back to the drawing board so that i can change things for them.

If its not too complex or i'm not worried about "perfection" or exacting use of materials, No.

I'm about to make a jewelry box for my wife. I'm going to draw it out first though. for all the other little "boxes" i've never drawn up plans. But for this one, i want to play with the appearance and get it just right and just for her. so, i'm going to do a few drawings. this will also save a few dollars on instrument grade quilted maple. :) that stuff is EXPENSIVE!!!

its going to be quilted maple and cocobolo. I cant wait to start it too. in my mind, its a beatiful little thing. hopefully it turns out as good. :D

ciao,

dan

[Dale Osowski]

My work usually starts out with a few sketches. I have sketch pads that I keep in my studio and in the living room, when an idea comes to mind I sketch it out. Sometimes it's something I actually do build and others its just another drawing in the pad waiting for its time. When I do get to building from a particular sketch I'll go a little farther on the pad with the details such as joinery etc.

[Bill Huber]

I like to make my own plans, I like that part of woodworking in that I can do all the design work and then see the finial product. To me that is one of the funnest parts of it.

So I do a lot of drawing in Visio to work out little details of fit and things like that. I can now see how things will fit together and what I need to change.

I work on a project for a long time before I ever cut any wood, I draw it out and adjust what I need to adjust and then change it again until I have it the way I would and then start cutting.

I am sure I could save a lot of wood by using someone else's plans but again I like that part of it also. When the project is done I can say its my project all the way.

[Gary Breckenridge]

:mad:I've had enough of generic plans for wood projects that lack fun and personality. I spend a bit of time visualizing what I plan to make. When I have worked out the tricky design features I may make a few simple sketches and do the math. I also know that I will be making changes as I go along.:cool: If I were doing kitchen cabinets for a customer it would be a different story but...

[Jeffrey Makiel]

I make drawings for everything. For me, it's as fun as woodworking. I enjoy coming up with my own designs, or using design concepts from others and adapting them. On the downside, I often make too many drawings and I begin to procrastinate.

The best part of modern CAD is that I can print out paper templates of complex parts. This takes a lot of error out of fabrication. See first pic below.

I usually start out with 2D stuff...but then I'm lured into making it 3D. It's probably the rendering phase (making photo realistic pictures...see second pic below) that becomes a time sink, especially if the software is not specifically designed for rendering, nor the computer being properly suited for it.

-Jeff :)

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y84/Beff2/EndTable-Renderimproved.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y84/Beff2/PedestalCompare.jpg

[Dale Lesak]

I have only made two things from professional plans, they were for the BIL and his plans. both were yard items and both fell apart in two years. I would have never have made them that way. I always do my own plans / design on Delta CAD. work out all the joinery and fasteners. double check every thing. and then see if I can find any design flaws. (Why it won't work) Then I start building, at the cost of wood you can't afford a lot of mistakes. I have sketch up, e cabinet's, auto desk and Delta CAD. Delta is the easy-est to use, and can do up a set of plans in 1/4 of the time it used to take me with pencil and paper. Dale

[keith ouellette]

I have read every word with a lot of interest. I hope a lot more people reply. I am fascinated that a few people enjoy the planning phase. I guess its because this part gets me so agravated.

[John Young]

I have designed and drawn all of my woodworking project. As a mechanical engineer, I have learned that proper planning is the key to success. The whole build process tends to go much smoother. Drawn plans also allow you to better visualize the finished project and tweak dimensions and proportions. It is a lot easier for me to make changes on paper versus cutting wood again and again.

[Mark Singer]

uh hu! i do. have since day uno!

[Mike Armstrong]

I've always done some sketches of just about any furniture piece or cabinet I'm going to make. Being comfortable as a semi-geek type, I started using CutList a few years back, especially when trying to figure optimum yield and layouts for sheet material.

About a year ago, I took an eCabinet Systems software class and saw how easy it can be plan a big project (altho the software has a steep learning curve) Now I'm in the middle of a year long cabinetmaking class and able to combine the software program with the "real world" knowledge and experience of a long-time cabinetmaker/instructor.

The focus of this semester is Euro style cabinets and developing a standardized, systematic approach to the design using some "rules" like the Blum Pearls. Combine all that with being able to send the digital file for an entire kitchen design to a CNC guy to cut/drill/rout all the sheet material, outsourcing drawers and doors, and I have a new found love for cabinetmaking.:)

Mike

[Bruce Page]

I draw out most of my stuff in AutoCAD.
Sorry Keith but it does take a certain degree of curiosity and stick-to-it-ness to learn. On the plus side, it does get easier with practice.

[Charles Wiggins]

I have drafted (if you could call my chicken scratch drafting) the plans for the few things I built. I am making the plans for my router table / saw wing/ cabinet now. I have the attention span of a wound up toddler and it makes everything very difficult for me to do. Concentration is not in my vocabulary.

Aside from the lack of attention span do any of you make your own plans?
Do you find it difficult?
Does it get easier the more you do it?

Plans? What plans? Wee dunt need no steenking plans.

Honestly, I haven't done much that was so complicated that it required more than a sketch with a few key measurements calculated (mostly to mitigate my own infantile attention span), and I find that things change a lot during the process anyway.

[Dan Barr]

I think those that say that they "change things as they go" and that they "don't see a need for plans"; that makes perfect sense. without plans, i would expect to change as i go too.

for some things, i do just that. i'll have some small scraps and end up building something without plans.

any deliberate project though, gets drafted first, reviewed at least twice, and then built last. I also dont like to change as i go when i have a particular thing in mind or the piece is for a client. im not going to leave it up to "if i get lucky and it all works out".

ciao,

dan

[Paul Coffin]

I am an engineer by trade so I use cad every day at work. I always cad up my woodworking projects. It is so much easier to find and fix the problems with your design before you make an expensive or time consuming mistake in wood. It also helps with purchasing just enough material.

Paul

[Ed Brady]

When I was a youngster my dad bought me a tabletop drafting board with a little cable operated parallel rule incorporated -- plus some drafting tools. I still have it all and still rarely use it. My dad hoped I'd become a mechanical engineer but I disappointed him and became an EE. No fine tolerances to worry about.

Anyway, when I learned of Sketchup I thought that would be the thing for me. I tried it, but was too impatient to get down to the shop. Seriously, I do drawings or sketches with enough detail to make sure everything will fit and to determine my bill of materials. For example, I recently drew the top of round table with a brass porthole in the center.

Most stuff I keep in my head and I make notes on the white board in my shop and maybe a detail of a joint while I'm making it. I tend to spend some time with my cut plans since that is where many of my mistakes seem to happen.

Very interesting questions and I am enjoying the responses. Could this be a left brain/right brain thing?

EDB

[Ed Brady]

Keith, I forgot to mention that Norm did use a story board (or stick) in the current kitchen series.

EDB

[Steve Rozmiarek]

When I was a youngster my dad bought me a tabletop drafting board with a little cable operated parallel rule incorporated -- plus some drafting tools. I still have it all and still rarely use it. My dad hoped I'd become a mechanical engineer but I disappointed him and became an EE. No fine tolerances to worry about.

Anyway, when I learned of Sketchup I thought that would be the thing for me. I tried it, but was too impatient to get down to the shop. Seriously, I do drawings or sketches with enough detail to make sure everything will fit and to determine my bill of materials. For example, I recently drew the top of round table with a brass porthole in the center.

Most stuff I keep in my head and I make notes on the white board in my shop and maybe a detail of a joint while I'm making it. I tend to spend some time with my cut plans since that is where many of my mistakes seem to happen.

Very interesting questions and I am enjoying the responses. Could this be a left brain/right brain thing?

EDB

Highly agree with the whiteboard, love those things! Great match for the shop. Get the one magnets will stick to, and you can hang plans and things really easily.

[Charles Wiggins]

any deliberate project though, gets drafted first, reviewed at least twice, and then built last. I also dont like to change as i go when i have a particular thing in mind or the piece is for a client. im not going to leave it up to "if i get lucky and it all works out".

An important point, for sure. I've been much more meticulous when working for someone else. Even so, the things I was doing weren't all that complicated (frames, boxes, props, set decorations). But right now, I'm the only client I've got.

[Rob Will]

I draw just about everything on an old version of TurboCAD (V1.02 circa 1993). Good stuff for a basic user like me. Newer versions are way too complicated.

Even if you don't intend to build directly off of the plan, a CAD drawing of some sort with "drag and drop" is a good way to work out proportions and get some of the key dimensions.

Rob

[Dan Barr]

Me too,

all of my "for me" or experimental or "just for fun" stuff doesnt get planned or drafted.

ciao,

dan

[Bob Feeser]

I start with a lined yellow pad, and draw very roughly with a pencil. It is more of a mental exercise in figuring out how each of the joints, and the overall design is going to come together. I pencil in sides, top, and any particular areas like a drawer, or internal braces, etc. Then I take these rough drawings, and convert it into computer design. I have been using a draw program, with simple boxes, and lines to more exactly determine dimensions of each piece. I often take scrap pieces from the shop, at different sizes to see how they feel in terms of proportions with one another. No need to build the whole unit to do this. A skirt for a table for example can be quickly judged.
Once I am done with the computer, I have a complete drawing with each piece specified, with a material and cut out list. I use the construction master calculater, which figures in fractions, and see what I need in the way of material, plus about 25 percent for waste.
My drawings are not to scale though I would like to learn Sketch Up.
I spend a good deal of time in design, then the actual build flies. I can concentrate on building procedures.
It takes time to do design work. For example I did a set of doors for a customer, and spent 4 hours in design, and then I built them. I could have built 8 in only a little more time. Design once, build a thousand.
Anyhow I respect the fact that someone who has been doing woodworking, or building for a lifetime, can do a rough scratch, and start building. I am not that experienced. Besides, I love the design stage. That is pure creativity. As I am envisioning how the pieces are going together, and what kind of joinery I am going to use, I get a rush out of that. I come up with whole design systems, and how they can work together, and then when I see how other designs/systems do it, I can better appreciate their thinking, since I am so embroiled in the nature of what is needed. It's all a labor of love for me, so no matter what part I am doing, it's a plus.

[Kyle Kraft]

Almost every time. I build only a few items "per print" from published plans. I make more mistakes using store bought plans than I ever do shooting from the hip. All my plans are scratched out on a sheet of notepad or whatever paper is lying around, they are accurately dimensioned though.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Yes & No.
I work out of my head. I make a general plan usually though it's not in paper. I make detailed plans for elements along the way that are complex enough that I need to have all the numbers and geometries dead on or it'll be impossible to fit up.

[Michael Gibbons]

Where's that damn napkin at? I've been sketching some details for a tool cabinet that I need to build for my hand tools which will be based on the HO Studley tool cabinet. It's definitley not a architect grade rendering, just some scribbles with some basic layouts for the dovetails, rabbets and dadoes with dimensions based on tool sizes that I have and are going to get,and that are getting more refined the closer I get to making the first cut. I'm also buying tools and gadgets that I'll need to complete the cabinet; solid brass hinges and screws, chamfering tool, wood screw drill bits, router bits etc.. This wood will be expensive so I want to do it right the first time.

[George Bregar]

Almost always work from plans. Larger projects, like a kitchen cabinet/drawers re-do, also made cutlist.

[Lee Schierer]

I make a scaled drawing of almost all my projects using autocad lite. the drawing gives me a chance to get the proportion woked out and gives critical dimensions so I can get theparts cut right. l generally don' t drw in the joint details and just allow for them as I go. keeping all the drawings allows me to make matching piecs later on without having to reference the original piece.

[Greg Cole]

No plans, nor dimensional drawings nothing really even close. Story stick and some scrap paper or wood with dim's on it is good enough.
I might sketch something out to scale to play with proportions, or mock things up for the visual but that's about it. 9 times out of 10 my "plan" is nothing more than a photo of something that I adapt to my liking-style etc.
I change things on the fly and yes I 'll spend a little time scratching my noodle occasionally, my choice. Some of the best things I have done have been from that "Ah-ha" thought after thinking awhile....;) Working from a plan leaves creativity etc aside, and creating with my 2 hands is a big reason I am a WW'er.
The attention span is just fine here, I can walk away from a project today and pick up a month from now with no plan to "fall back on" and be just fine.

Greg

[Rod Sheridan]

Keith, like Bob Feeser, I start with a sketch on a notepad and begin drawing.

Once I have a front and side view, I then begin sketching the components.

I then draw everything on the computer, often when I'm away travelling on business. It gives me some shop time, away from the shop.

I also make a cut list showing the dimensions of the rough piece required for jointing/planing so that I can break out the material without having to view the drawings.

The computer drawings show a 2d view of each component with all measurements.

I then make the components to the drawings, and assemble the furniture. Obviously I re-check a key dimensions to keep on track, or make very minor changes.

Making the drawings forces me to review all aspects of the design, before I make mistakes in the shop.

I also like to work in the shop, not stand there trying to figure out what to do, or what size that piece should be.

years after making a piece, I've wanted a second, and the detailed drawings have allowed me to easily make a second piece.

Regards, Rod.

[Danny Thompson]

I usually start first with some rough sketches (and I mean really rough, 2nd-grader rough) on scrap paper. Then,

If everything looks familiar and I am confident with the measurements, I go to work with the wood.

If the design calls for a new joint type, new technique, or anything complex, I like to draw out a more detailed plan using Microsoft Powerpoint, to help me make sure I have thought through all of the joinery, sequencing, and spacing issues. These powerpoint drawings usually take the form of traditional flat drawings.

Here is an example of a drawing for a drill press table I recently made:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=79841&d=1201017431

Simple, really, but I had some concerns about the spacing of the front trim pieces and the guide rails, so the drawing helped.

[JayStPeter]

It depends on the project. For a recent garden bench project I built, I spent a lot of time in the design phase getting every detail correct. I essentially built the piece in Sketchup first including all the joinery. If interested, you can see the bench and Sketchup rendering over at Woodcentral Shop Shot #868.
On the other hand, I drew nothing when building my outfeed table (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=76108) this weekend. Straight from my head to the wood.
Most of my projects fall somewhere in between. I'll have sketches or more advanced 2-D hand drawings for most projects. Depending on the project, it's sometimes necessary to do so in order to get the right sizes and amount of lumber. Usually some of the details are simply sketched and I'll have to mess around in the shop and on the wood or scrap until it looks good.
I've only built some jigs from actual plans, usually from a magazine. In those cases, you have to be careful not to overuse the plan. Usually not measuring helps a project go together better.

[Jeff Craven]

I use autocad to sketch and figure out key dimensions (because that's what I do at work), but the 'plan' evolves as the project progresses. Attached is my sketch of the blanket box that I'm working on.

[Lee Koepke]

Some projects are still on paper.

I have a tendency to draw alot and when my opportunity arises, build it. Part of the excitement for me is the design part.

Some projects I take the actual wood and layout the project on the piece. It all depends on my mood and the level of detail.

I dont build on commissions or sell anything, so I dont have the time constraints one would have for profit ventures.

[Will Blick]

the varied responses shows the diversification of ww's....and the areas of the craft some are attracted to, and not attracted to...

I have a tendency to wing things a lot, which are relatively simple.... but once things become complex, or I plan to use expensive woods, I tend to draw things out in detail...

I find it advantageous to think things out in a nice clean tempered climate, (my office). When in a hot, or cold shop, dusty, tired, noise of compressors kicking on, etc. Sometimes I just can't think as clear vs. a quiet office.

Next, I like to focus on making parts in the shop.... my thought process is more about, how to make the part.... not, what size does it have to be. The drawing has all that information.... so it reduces the number of things I need to think about while making the pieces...

[keith ouellette]

It looks like most people do plans. I envy those how can build a complicated project with just some notes.

The cabinet I am working on now has about 40 parts before I even get to the
drawers and doors so I did the best planning I could.

I also made a list of instructions to put everything in order.

I have to do a little work on it as i get time each day. With an instruction sheet I will know were I left off and what I have to do next. I just hope all my planning was right. I'll let you know soon i hope.

Thanks for all the replies I have read all of them with great interest.

[Art Mann]

I remember the advice I got from my first boss as an adult some 30 years ago. He said "Aways remember the 5 P's. Prior planning prevents poor performance". I have built some stuff on the fly, but find that I always forget some detail that causes me to have to modify the design or even start over. Here lately, I have been drawing up projects of any complexity ahead of time and find it helps me work out the details and I plan out the work flow at the same time. I used to use Autocad but have switched over to Sketchup.

[Brent Harding]

I've always been an AutoCad user, but no longer have access to it. I have moved my CAD experience into Sketchup to make awesome 3-d versions of what I will build.

[Ray Moser]

A 4 drawer oak filing cabinet (2 drawers high by 2 drawers wide with a top to hold a printer), a 4' wide by 3' high by about 5" deep wall hanging display rack for the wife's plates and a trestle table were built from my own sketches. All were original except for the table I borrowed design elements from pictures in books. For the file cabinet I started from the size of a file folder and worked my way out to the dimensions of drawers and on to the overall cabinet. For the plate rack, I started with the largest plate she wanted to display and went from there. The bottom 2 shelves are of equal depth and the top shelf is more narrow. I just used a french curve to lay out the curves of the sides where they reduce to meet the top shelf.

[Billy Reynolds]

:p A Big Chief Tablet & A Red Cedar Pencil :D:D Don't dare try to erase on the big chief tablet.:mad::mad: