Veneering Question / J-roller - Just read it in a book

[Jason Scott]

Hey guys,

So I was reading in a cabinet book today and it said that you can apply veneer with a "j-roller" and contact cement...Is this true? I always thought I needed the vacuum system or a bunch of cauls and clamps, but this article just acted like you apply the contact cement and then roll it on...Please let me know as I want a "flame maple" rack for my coffee table and I'd like to do a 1/42" highly figured veneer over mdf, thanks!!!

Jason

[Jim McFarland]

Jason, check joewoodworker's site re contact cement and veneers. From what I read -- use contact cement only with "backed" veneers.

Link here..
http://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/veneering-tips.htm

I would email Joe directly with your question. IME, he is very responsive and gives spot-on advice.

[Jamie Buxton]

It has been many years since I tried to use contact cement with veneer, but back then the issue was that solvents in finishes would degrade the contact cement's bond. Having veneer bubble up after you've varnished is a very bad feeling.

[Jason Scott]

Would shellac do that? That is the finish I am using...I am also worried about the cement "bleeding through" the veneer as most of the stuff I am looking at is 1/42" with no backing, is that an issue?

[Mike Henderson]

I was taught that contact cement and veneer are a no-no. The reason given was that contact cement will not hold the veneer long term. I've never tried it so I can't comment from personal experience but the people who told me are very experienced veneer people.

Mike

[Rich Schneider]

Contact cement and veneer...just say no...I have used solvent based contact cement on backed veneers on several projects and it always seemed fine at first anyway (I never used water based contact cements because I was told it can cause veneer to curl)....then I had a couple projects start to debond after 5 to 8 years (one a kitchen refacing project where it debonded in a couple areas which were fixable and the other was an inset panel on a gun cabinet which was a PITA to fix)....I had taken a couple veneering classes after that and was told to "just say no" to contact cement since it is rubber based and rubber will deteriorate over time...plus it is flexible and will allow the veneer to creep and crack open...instead I was turned toward plastic resin glue (urea formaldehyde) which is a rigid glue....so far so good with that.....I use the UF on unbacked and backed veneers now....its not as immediately gratifying since you need 14 hours of clamp time with the UF at 70 degree F, so therefore I use a vacuum press...unlike contact cement, UF can seep through if you have a porous veneer, are "thinning" the UF too much and are using a vacuum press (you want a pasty mix in the end just so the lumps are gone and you can spread it with an ink roller without it flowing all over the place)...

[Jim Becker]

I agree...I would not use contact cement with veneer. Cold press glue like Joe Woodworker sells works great for me and you can use either platens and cauls or a vacuum bag system to clamp the workpiece(s) while the glue dries. 45 minutes to a hour of clamping is all you need (but set them aside overnight for a full cure), so even with a small shop, you can move though quite a few workpieces in a day...and work on other things as you wait between glue-up iterations.

[Rick Christopherson]

You are using a non-backed veneer, so you don't have a choice; you cannot use contact cement. This is the situation where finish solvents can degrade the contact cement.

However, contrary to the popular misconception often repeated by those that don't work with veneer, when working with paper-backed veneer, the manufacturers not only recommend contact cement, they warn against using pva glues. This misinformation gets repeated so often, that most people don't know the source or the reasons. You won't hear this misinformation from professionals that have extensive experience with paper-backed veneer.

Finish solvents will not penetrate through the paper backing to get to the contact cement, but they will penetrate through non-backed veneer. I spray lacquer with an airless sprayer, where a single liquid coat before drying can be as much as 1/32 of an inch thick.

The biggest reason why any laminate (wood or plastic) does not adhere well is because the woodworker did not apply sufficient pressure. This is even more important with wood veneer. Many veneer manufacturers frown on the use of a "J-roller" because the design of the roller actually limits how much pressure you are able to apply to the surface. My personal preference is to use an old rolling pin, where I can apply my entire body weight to the roller.

I have never had a veneer delaminate.