Bosch 4100-9 TS delivered today

[Ian Haywood]

so naturally I assembled it and put it right to work....

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a193/imh_98/Bosch4100.jpg

[Dustin Thompson]

You'll need at least a 5 horse dust collector to run all that stuff through there, I'd recommend a cyclone. . .

Wish I had waited for the 4100, but needed a new saw and couldn't wait. What do you think of the two piece guard, and riving knife?

Dustin

[Ian Haywood]

This is my first TS. I wouldn't know a riving knife from a push stick.:) I do know that the first project is going to be a crosscut sled. I need to go down the the design forum and see if there is a 123 for making one.

Ian

[glenn bradley]

I do know that the first project is going to be a crosscut sled. I need to go down the the design forum and see if there is a 123 for making one.

This outlines the build for a large one. Special project that had a lot of over sized panels. I make my normal, small and mitering sleds the same way.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=50581

[Ian Haywood]

Thanks Glenn. Mine will probably be a 'slam bang' as you put it.

Ian

[Ian Haywood]

Got to try it out today edging some cedar that I milled a few weeks ago. I first tried it with the combo blade that came with it and then with the steel (read no carbide early 80s) ripping blade that my buddy gave me. The steel blade ripped with much less effort than the combo as I suspected it would but the combo left a smoother edge. I'll just be making more trips to Charlie's Saw Shop to get it sharpened. For dust collection, I had it connected to my Craftsman 6.5hp 20gal shop vac and still got a lot of shavings out the top and on the floor. I need to figure out how to keep the filter pleats in the vac from clogging completely with dust. I thought about a rigging pantyhose pre-filter stretched around it to keep the big stuff from filling the pleats.
I also quickly determined that I will be purchasing a roller outfeed support in short order. It got hairy-scary about 3/4 of the way down those 7' boards.

When edging rough cut boards that have bark on both sides, I screw a 1x8 board on one side to provide a straight edge to ride the fence. Is there a better way to do it without leaving screw holes on the board I'm cutting?

Also, I was only leaving about 1/4" of blade above the wood for safety's sake. What's optimum?

thanks,
Ian

[Dustin Thompson]

Some set the blade so the gullet just clears the top of the stock. That's about what I do unless I am using some sort of jig or what have you and don't want too much blade projecting.

The blade that came on my 4000 was the biggest hunk of junk ever produced, made the most jagged, nasty azz cut ever.

There is a commercial jig out there to edge joint boards on the tablesaw, it clamps the boards down. Would be a bit quicker for you.

You could also rig up a sled with some of the de-sta-co toggle clamps. Bet there are plans out there for that.

Have fun with the saw, and play it safe!

Dustin

[John Newell]

I outfitted my 4001 with the Bosch side and rear extensions. Not as useful as a roller outfeed, but they are always onboard when I move the saw.

[Ian Haywood]

Well, I am now +1 roller outfeed support courtesy of Harbor Freight. $9.99. It's cheap but it works and when I drop something on it and crush the pos, I won't have any heartache. :)

I have a lot of technique to learn running that saw. When I was edging today, it kept trying to pull off the fence. I need to get my calipers and check to see if the fence and blade are square to the miter slots. I thought about picking up another roller for an infeed support.

Ian

[Curt Harms]

Congrats on your purchase, Bosch is well thought of in that market. If I were You, I'd be thinking thin kerf carbide blades. One with 20-30 teeth for ripping and perhaps another 40-60 teeth for crosscutting. There are thin kerf combos that will both rip and crosscut pretty well. Of course, it's always easy to spend somebody else's money but bear in mind it's not the saw that cuts the wood, it's the blade and good blades tend to produce good cuts.

I've had good luck with Freud blades. Here might be one possibility:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000223O1.

Here's another:
http://www.holbren.com/home.php?cat=53 I've not dealt with Holbren but people that have speak well of him.

Another thought is just because a saw CAN run a 10" blade doesn't mean it has to. If You don't need 3" depth of cut, You could run smaller diameter cheaper blades. I've run 7 1/4" blades on a cabinet saw when I had the need. The rim will be turning slower but just feed slower.

HTH

Curt

[John Newell]

I'd be thinking thin kerf carbide blades


Make sure they'll work with the riving knife first, though.

[Curt Harms]

If the Riving knife that comes with the saw is too thick for a think kerf blade, does Bosch offer a thinner riving knife? Or get a second one and grind it down? Or get the proper thickness sheet metal and fabricate a second one, or ??

Curt

[Matt Day]

A couple thoughts:

One, when you talk about screwing a 1x8 on to edge, why not install some toggle clamps on the 1x8?

Also, when you said the board pulls away from the fence, does this happen when you're using the roller as an outfeed support? If the roller is not lined up perfectly straight, it will pull or push in one direction. I've been meaning to install those little roller bearings that are not uni-directional like the roller is.

[Ian Haywood]

A couple thoughts:

One, when you talk about screwing a 1x8 on to edge, why not install some toggle clamps on the 1x8?

Also, when you said the board pulls away from the fence, does this happen when you're using the roller as an outfeed support? If the roller is not lined up perfectly straight, it will pull or push in one direction. I've been meaning to install those little roller bearings that are not uni-directional like the roller is.


I have been using the 1x8 on top so the board I'm edging is resting on the table. Clamps wouldn't work. You've got a point about the roller causing the board to pull. I'll have to check it out and maybe cant it the other way to pull the board into the fence.

I put a digital caliper on the knife and got .094". The Freud's crosscut has a .09 kerf and the rip has a .094 kerf, so it looks like the thin kerf blades are out.

I looked and indeed the roller was canted in the wrong direction. Thanks for that tip.

Ian

Edit: I was looking at Freud's site, and all their glueline blades have a fairly thin maximum cut, and their thick rip blades have like a 1.5" minimum cut. How 'set in stone' are these limits they put on the blades?? I am likely to be ripping anything from 1/2" to 2".

Ian

[Anthony Anderson]

I have been using the 1x8 on top so the board I'm edging is resting on the table. Clamps wouldn't work.
Ian


Ian, create a sled, with the 1x8 on the bottom, install a couple of toggle clamps (or three), or a couple of knob type screw clamps. Place the board to be cut/straightened on top of the 1x8, lock in place with the clamps and make your cut. Much quicker and no screw holes. Good Luck.

[Matt Day]

Ian, create a sled, with the 1x8 on the bottom, install a couple of toggle clamps (or three), or a couple of knob type screw clamps. Place the board to be cut/straightened on top of the 1x8, lock in place with the clamps and make your cut. Much quicker and no screw holes. Good Luck.

Thanks for explaining that Anthony, that's what I meant!

[Ian Haywood]

20/20 hindsight tells me that I should have kept my money and found another hobby.... don't click on these if you have a weak stomach. --Ian

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a193/imh_98/Meat2.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a193/imh_98/Meat1.jpg

[Mike Goetzke]

20/20 hindsight tells me that I should have kept my money and found another hobby.... don't click on these if you have a weak stomach. --Ian

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a193/imh_98/Meat2.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a193/imh_98/Meat1.jpg

Sorry to see you were injured, but, give us the whole story please. These are always wake-up calls and learning experiences for everyone.

Mike

[Ian Haywood]

I was ripping stickers and was down to the last one.. I was standing to the off side of the blade (behind the rip fence) and was just getting close enough to break out the push stick. I was holding the wood to the fence from back with my right hand while feeding it from the front with the push stick. For one reason or other I had the splitter stowed. No guard on the blade. Blade was high enough for the gullet to just clear the wood. I was watching the front of the blade very closely but neglected to watch the back. When I repositioned my right hand for another push, I contacted the rear of the spinning blade, pulling my hand up and over the top.

Prevention of this would have been easy. Guards in place, splitter up, blade lower, and use a flippin' feather board to keep wood on fence instead of holding it. I did almost everything wrong and am paying the price. I chipped the bone on the stitched finger. Doc says a year for full recovery.

--Ian

[Dennis Lopeman]

Holy crap Ian!!! Sorry about your fingers!

2 things - if you continue this hobby!

1. I was about to help you out with your Pleats clogging issue on your DC: two words: Phil Thein: http://www.cgallery.com/smf/index.php?board=1.0 - you'll see him on here, too.

2. I did the same/similar thing to my thumb! Only about 2 or 3 months ago actually! The blade was coming to a stop, though. I also did not hit any nerves or bone, so in that respect I was "lucky" - I butterfly stitched it myselft and kept NeoSporen on it twice a day with a gauze and paper towels taped (cleaned with alcohol and peroxide each time I changed, too)... Heeled incredibly fast - I had never used NeoSporen before! Awesome stuff.

My lesson learned - I will be much more careful now. I hope you will be OK. YOur injuries are a lot more messy than mine, but I had 4 slices into my thumb right down into the flesh... I should have taken pictures as a lesson for everyone.

I too, do not have an safety devices in place... so I'll be doing all that as I get my shop restructured

[Mike Goetzke]

Don't know if one is available for your saw but years ago I bought a Shark Guard. Two saws later - I still have a Shark. It's so easy to to remove the guard and leave the splitter in place. I never cut w/o it (except for dados). Best $100+ I've spent.

Good Luck!

[Ian Haywood]

That's the sad part. The Bosch comes with all that neat safety stuff. I just had it all stowed/removed.

I'm seriously considering getting rid of all my WW stuff. My fascination with chainsaws makes me dangerous enough.

Ian

[Mikail Khan]

Sorry about your injury. I hope you make a full recovery.

Thanks for reminding us about a potential dangers of our hobby.

I have the same saw. Thanks for reminding me to keep my guard in place.

MK

[michael genovesi]

I am thinking of getting the Bosch 4100-09, how the heck are your fingers doing,

I just bought a Bosch mitersaw with lazer and just had Amazon ship me the Delta 36-136 Universal Miter Saw Stand, for $150.00 delivered. I really wanted to get the new Bosch T4B gravity stand, but it is $300.00. Do you think any one is better then the other.
Also do you still own the 4100 and did you get a good buy.

Michael

in San Antonio

[Ian Haywood]

Yep, it's still out there where I walked away from it, blood drips, spatters and all. It's tasted manflesh now so I'm steering clear till it settles down. I paid $635 for it from Amazon. The gravity rise stand came with it and is really the trick.

[J. Z. Guest]

Bummer Ian.

For others' information: That safety system was developed not only by Bosch, but by several tool manufacturers all working together. It was intentionally designed so that one can remove bits & pieces of the guarding system while leaving others intact.

The blade guards snap right off. The anti-kickback pawls snap right off. The splitter can either be a splitter in combination with the blade guards (there are right & left guards) or with the blade guards removed and the splitter lowered to be a riving knife.

One of the main advantages of this saw is that one can remove everything but the riving knife for non through cuts and it is safer than any saw with a conventional splitter.

I have the Ridgid TS2400 and have removed the blade guard, but I leave the splitter & anti-kickback pawls in place for all through cuts.

Even just having the riving knife in position would have prevented this accident. It comes up nice & close to the rear of the blade and is form fitting.

Ian: did you have the riving knife off because it was out of alignment and hard to get aligned or for some other reason?

Some day in the future, all UL Listed table saws will have guarding systems like that as stock. UL has notified industry of this and they are gearing up. Bosch was the first one to hit the market.

My bet is that right before those new requirements are effective, there will be a massive sale on all the old style saws. Keep your eyes peeled, if you're looking for a new saw and will be replacing the guarding system any way. (like with a splitter built into the zero clearance insert and an overarm guard/dust collector.)

Again, sorry to read/see about your injury. Your fingers look like ground pork. If you do continue woodworking, I'm sure you'll be ultra careful from now on. If not, I can't blame you after an incident like that.

(I work at UL, in one of the power tools sections. Bosch brings a lot of their stuff through here. There is a 4100 series table saw sitting in a cubicle down the aisle from me as I type this. We are using it for training on how to evaluate to the new guarding requirements)

[Ian Haywood]

Ian: did you have the riving knife off because it was out of alignment and hard to get aligned or for some other reason?


With rip cuts in partially green eastern red cedar, I had problems with the kerf closing on and pinching the riving knife to the point that I couldn't finish the cut. I dropped the knife to try without and naturally the kerf then closed on the rear of the blade instead and that wasn't good either. Seemed like the knife was always in the way one way or other and I got accustomed to just leaving it stored for convenience.

Ian

[Nissim Avrahami]

Hi Ian

Sorry to hear about your accident and wish you fast recovery.

I think that removing the riving knife was not so good idea...as you have seen, if the wood is closing on the riving knife it will also close on the blade....

It happened to me while cutting some Oak...they call it "Reaction wood" i.e. - after the wood is cut by the front teeth of the blade, some internal pressures are released and the wood starts to "React"...sometimes, it will close on the blade from both sides and, in my case, it stop the blade with all the 3.35HP of the motor....

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb151/matsukawa/Picture%20frame%20WIP/10.jpg


http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb151/matsukawa/Picture%20frame%20WIP/11.jpg


http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb151/matsukawa/Picture%20frame%20WIP/12.jpg

The correct way is, to stop the saw and push a wedge to keep the kerf open...


The other, and more dangerous "Reaction" is that the wood bends toward the fence....but, the fence is stronger (I mean, clamped to the top) so the wood starts to press on the blade back teeth and before you know....a UFO is flying to your direction...or in simple words "Kickback".

That's the reason that I'm using "Short fence" that extends only 1"~2" beyond the front teeth of the blade (but never pass the blade center) and if the wood "reacts"...nothing will happen...no fence to press on - the wood can bent free...

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb151/matsukawa/Picture%20frame%20WIP/13.jpg


Jeremy
"Bosch was the first one to hit the market"

Bosch is making the same table saw also for the EU market (without the "kickback pawls" that are not required in EU) so obviously, they did not have to re-design the saw - they have already the system.

The EU model is called GTS 10 (and costs double than the Bosch 4000)
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Bosch-Bosch-GTS-10-254mm-Saw-Bench-32024.htm

Regards
niki

[Ian Haywood]

0
The correct way is, to stop the saw and push a wedge to keep the kerf open...

Yes, I did that once too. I had a pack of the wooden shingle scraps that they sell for wedges and tapped one of those in. It worked to finish the cut but then I ended up with a warped piece of lumber that was useless for my project. Not that it was the wedges fault but I chucked out that whole project and gave up on it.


If any of you guys are in the central KY area, I'll make you a good deal on some like new and some slightly bloody wood working stuff. I'm done.

Ian

[Ian Haywood]

Two weeks later. I'm healing much faster than I thought possible.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a193/imh_98/2weeks.jpg

[Fred Floyd]

Get a good blade. I mean really good. Freud is excellent. However, I have been using Forrest blades in my miter saw, tablesaw and radial arm saw. They provide the smoothest cut.

Norm did a thing on "tablesaw 101 last year. If you're a newbie to the world of tablesaws, he covers most things, including a crosscut sled and push sticks.

The tablesaw is just the beginning. You will need extensions, a good blade, a decent miter gauge and fence to assure accurate cuts. Getting the saw set up is the most important thing. Once it is square, you will get good results.

[Ian Haywood]

If I had been running a good carbide tipped blade instead of that half dull old school steel toothed blade, my injuries would have been much worse I think. It would have just sliced through my fingertips instead of dragging them over the top and pushing them to the front. At this point it's only going to get sporadic use anyway so I'm not going to invest in another blade.

btw.. I used my miter saw for the first time since the accident and that spinning blade gave me the heebie-jeebies for a couple seconds there.. Also, ALL of the guards are back on the table saw. If I can't make a cut with them on there, it just won't get cut.

thanks,
Ian

[Fred Floyd]

Get a good blade. I mean really good. Freud is excellent. However, I have been using Forrest blades in my miter saw, tablesaw and radial arm saw. They provide the smoothest cut.

Norm did a thing on "tablesaw 101 last year. If you're a newbie to the world of tablesaws, he covers most things, including a crosscut sled and push sticks.

The tablesaw is just the beginning. You will need extensions, a good blade, a decent miter gauge and fence to assure accurate cuts. Getting the saw set up is the most important thing. Once it is square, you will get good results.

[Ned Gelinas]

This is a first time response....I'm more comfortable reviewing others responses and have learned a lot. But I felt the need to tell you that after making my own crosscut sleds in the past , I purchased a crosscut sled from Rockler which is much more accurate then my own and it's on sale for $99.99 that you might want to check out.Keep in mind this response is from an amateur.

[John Hixon]

I got the basic Build-it system from Incra and made a pretty nice little miter sled, allowing me to get nearly perfect glue joints cut at angles in 15/16 oak bull nose stair treds, on a Bosch 4100.

The blade that came with the saw was pretty good, but for this job, I chose to get an Avanti blade from the Blue BORG. Nice clean cut, and just a bit of splinter on exit.

[Rob Hough]

So being that you're planning to make a sled your next project... we can take that to mean you're gonna stick around?

Sorry to hear about your injury though but it's good to see that it is on the mend!

My first jig was a cross cut sled. It was just some scrap mdf, oak runners and plywood. I'm going to rebuild it this summer but it gets the job done and makes me feel WAY better about cross cuts.

[Nissim Avrahami]

Hi Ian

Well, I'm happy to hear that you are going to stay around...

It looks like you are recovering very nice and I hope that soon you'll hit the "ON" switch again.

Yes, sleds, will make your work not only more accurate and easy but also, safer.

May I suggest that you have a look at the following posts

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=64448

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=82361

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=63533

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=65256

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=77578

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=59938

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=61355

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=61356

I hope that you'll get some ideas

Regards
niki