Jack vs Jointer

[Peter Quadarella]

In reading about planes (I have no experience) it seems that a lot of people use the Jack place as their primary "levelling" bench plane and then somtimes finish up with a jointer. I am trying to figure out if there is any advantage to using the Jack first other than weight. For example, if you were using wooden planes which weigh much less, would there be any advantage to starting with the Jack or could you just start with the Jointer plane?

[Sam Yerardi]

Peter,

I use a 24" wooden jointer plane and a Stanley #5. For myself, depending on the length of the edge or surface I might start with either one. There's no hard and fast rule but if the edge is more than say twice the length of my #5 I would start with the jointer. I tend to use the jointer as a last planing process because the 24" is rather heavy. Others will have different approaches but this works for me.

[Pedro Reyes]

As said, to each his own.

If we are talking about edge, then mostly length of edge influences.

But if we are talking face planing, as in flattening a board. I have found that for me it is not only weight, but the fact that a lot of the initial cuts are done diagonally or even cross-grained where a #7 or #8 would stick out on both edges of the board, so no advantage to using them. Also the wider cutter makes it harder to push those planes. Initial flattening is sometimes just a number of short diagonal strokes, so a jack works better for me here. Once you've shaved those high spots (cup, etc.) then you want to use a longer plane (with the grain, not edge to edge). At least that's how I mostly do it.

No better way to figure this out than trying it, after a while you can get tired of making short strokes with a heavy jointer, you not only have to start it but also stop it.

/p

[Sam Yerardi]

Peter,

One thing I do try to do is to use the Jack plane to get close to scribed line, and then use the jointer. If I use the jointer first and if the edge is angled to the desired line to be planed to, the jointer will give you a straight edge but it will be a bit more difficult to get to the line. It's hard to describe without a drawing but I try to get the edge as flat as I can before using the jointer. You can start with a jointer, but this procedure works for me.
As far as surfaces, I primarily use the jointer to go from rough lumber to relatively flat surfaces and then move on to smoothing, etc., but that's just my approach.
That's the great thing about this is for to you try something and obsevre the results you get. What works for you might not work for me. It's a very subjective process.

[Hank Knight]

Peter,

My jack plane is set up for rough work. I use it to hog off material to get near whatever end result I'm looking for. Then I switch to a jointer for long edges or flattening long stock.My jointer is set up for a fine cut. I use it to sneak up on what I want. If I'm straightening an edge, for example, I don't want to take heavy cuts toward the end. If I miss with a heavy cut, I've got a lot of work to do to get back where I need to be and I've wasted a lot of wood. If I miss with a light cut, fixing the mistake is faster and doesn't involve removing lots of material. And, of course, the length of a jointer is important for both strightening edges and flattening stock.

My jack is a standard bevel-down Stanley. I have a LN bevel-up jack that I use a little differently. If the stock I'm working on is small/short, a big jointer is awkward and clumsy to work with. In these situations I set my bevel up jack for a fine cut and use it like a jointer for final flattening and truing. I also use it as a smoother sometimes. It's a really versitile plane, more so, IMHO, than a standard jack. But for larger work, there's nothing like a big jointer plane for flattening and truing.

My $.02.

Hank

EDIT: Peter, I didn't address the weight issue you asked about. I don't think weight is the factor that drives the decision whether to use a jack or a jointer. It's the length. For straightening and flattening stock, you want a long plane that will bridge the low spots and cut the tops off the high spots. This process eventually gets everything level and true. Theoretically, for this work,the longer the plane the better. A short plane will follow the hills and valleys and you'll never get to flat or true. People talk about the weight of a big plane "carrying it through" a difficult cut, I.E., once a big, heavy plane gets moving, its momentum keeps it going and makes it difficult to stop. But this, in my opinion, is a secondary benefit in a big plane; it's the length that's important.

In the early, rough stages of flattening or truing a board, you use a jack, even though it's a shorter plane, to hog off the unwanted stuff you can see. The closer you get to finished, the closer the tolerances are and the jack becomes less and less precise (it follows the hills and valleys). A long jointer plane will give you a true flat or straight surface by virtue of it's length. You don't have to rely entirely on your eyes to tell you where the high spots are, the plane will cut them off even if you can't see them. Like all hand work, straight, flat and true is not automatic, even with the proper hand plane. You do have to check with a straight edge and you may have to go back over it serveral times to achieve the desired result, but it's easier to get there with a longer plane than a shorter one.

I hope this makes sense

Hank

[Peter Quadarella]

OK thanks for all the information everyone. I just now bought a Jack plane so I'm going to give this stuff a try :). My first attempt will be just to see if I can roughly level. If I enjoy the process I will likely get a jointer later.