more dust collection questions

[Russ Ambrose]

sorry for starting yet another thread on DC, but after reading all the various other threads and info i want to make sure i'm "getting it" and am not totally off base with what i'm planning on doing.

i have to get serious about dust collection, but money is tight. here's what i'm considering and would welcome any thoughts and insights anybody can offer.

i realize that a good cyclone DC might be ideal, however, for roughly the same money as i would spend for just a cyclone, looks like i can get the following: (1) Grizzly 2hp DC with a 1 micron cannister filter (the G0548), (2) a shark guard TS dust hood (i cut a lot of MDF on the TS), and (3) a ceiling-mounted air filtration unit. seems like the three of these together will do me much more good than having just a cyclone DC (for "roughly" the same price).

am i barking up the right tree? any thoughts on filtration units? any thoughts about the G0548 or the Shark Guard?

many thanks in advance. i have learned so much from reading/lurking these forums. i hope to someday increase my knowledge and skill level to the point where i can help others as so many here have done for me.

[Prashun Patel]

My 2 cents:

1) The main adv to a cyclone is it keeps yr filters clean and therefore yr dc in peak flowing condition. If you are a weekender and/or on a budget and are willing to empty and bang a filter bag or cannister every couple months, then the single stages are fine.

2) I have and really like the Delta 50-760. it comes w/ a 1micron bag, so it's complete @ under $350. Granted, yr cannister'll be easier to clean. But I've cleaned the Delta bag once and it aint too bad.

3) If you can afford the shark guard, it's a GREAT thing. But you can also make a poor mans shark guard with a shopvac and a cleverly mounted hose. I did that when cutting about 25 sheets of MDF and it worked perfectly in conj w/ my dc.

4) I'd make a ceiling mounted air filtration unit. It's a great, easy project. You can find used or cheap squirrel cage blower and mount it in a box with regular furnace filters mounted on the intake and outtake of the unit. The quick and dirty alternative is to strap a furnace filter to a box fan. What I like about either of these options is that they allow you to use standard, available filters. Also, with a homemade sqcage system, you can 'duct' the output to be a good distance away from yr intake, so you get really good aflow thru the shop. A homemade unit will run under $100. The box fan unit will be $20.

[Russ Ambrose]

thanks for the reply, shawn. no, i don't mind emptying bags or banging cannisters. can't be any worse than mucking out the horse and goat stalls :)

i'll certainly take a look at the delta DC - that's a much friendlier price than the grizzly

are "regular furnace filters" sufficient to use in a woodshop (i.e., can they trap tiny dust particles)?

thanks again

[Lance Norris]

any thoughts about the G0548

I just got one and its now up and running. Its a great DC. I am only running 4" plastic spiral hose and as soon as I turned it on, it sucked all the excess dust out of the hoses that my little Delta DC(AP400) left behind. I would recommend it.

[Prashun Patel]

Wood Magazine just did a comparison of the single state dc's and I think the Grizzly 2hp and Delta 50-760 came out on top.

You can get hepa quality furnace filters if you wish. One poster (I think it was Andew Williams?) had a filter that used an automobile cabin filter as the main filter. You can really go nuts with it. The point is, it's easy to make, and you can create yr unit with filter-availability in mind.

[Henry Christian III]

Its the stuff you can't see that ruins your lungs. Go to Clearvuecyclones.com for an excellent lung saver and a link from there to Bill Pentz to understand what one needs to know about dust collection.
:) Regards, 3

[glenn bradley]

Everyone will chime in on this but, if you cut a lot of MDF and have no cyclone, you will spend a lot of your shop time and money cleaning and replacing your filters. The talc-like MDF dust will choke your filters if not pre-seperated. So, the question is; how much is a lot? Is it "mostly"? Is it half? If even approaching half you cutting is composites I would not spend the money or time on anything other than a cyclone. You'll end up there anyway.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

My new shop is attached to the house, which magnifies the dust problem. If I buy a yellow or white cyclone, and properly install it, is it all the dust control a shop needs?

[David Parker]

I'm in a similar situation, except space is what's a premium for me. My plan is to get the top rated Delta 50-760 and place a "pre-collector" can with Thien-like lid-cyclone separator in the circuit just in front of the collector. This should keep the larger particulates out of the Delta, hopefully without too big a penalty in air flow.

At this time, I'm not sure whether a ceiling mounted air filtration unit would be worthwhile. I don't see why I can't just use my Delta DC to filter the air in my shop when I'm not cutting. It certainly has a cfm similar to the ceiling mounted filters. I could see rigging up a simple air intake that sucks air in through a furnace filter. You could experiment with positioning of the air intake so as to best turn over the shop air. With the 1 micron bag on the Delta, you should be able to filter out most of the particles.

Hopefully, when we get our Dylos particle counters, we can test the actual effectiveness of such a system.

[Steven Wilson]

My new shop is attached to the house, which magnifies the dust problem. If I buy a yellow or white cyclone, and properly install it, is it all the dust control a shop needs?

No it's not.

The things you need to do are;

1) pay attention to how you generate dust/chips. There are operations that produce less dust and more chips (i.e. use a card scraper instead of sanding).

2) If you generate dust collect it at the source.

3) Make dust collection part of your decision matrix for selecting new tools. For example, I loved my PC speedblock sander (no DC) but the Festool performs as well and has great built in dust collection. In general the European combination machines have more effective dust collection capability than typical American style machinery (tablesaws, jointers, etc).

4) Use the appropriate DC tool for the job. For example, a decent shop vac w/ HEPA filter for your handheld power tools, a cyclone for your stationary power tools.

5) Your piping network and DC collection hoods are as important as which DC you choose.

6) Your shop needs ventilation

7) When in doubt wear a respirator

Spending money will not solve your DC issues, although it will help.

[Art Mann]

Its the stuff you can't see that ruins your lungs. Go to Clearvuecyclones.com for an excellent lung saver and a link from there to Bill Pentz to understand what one needs to know about dust collection.
:) Regards, 3

The Pentz website has a lot of practical information regarding system design. But, his discussion of the relative dangers of wood dust are little over-the-top in the view of many people. Just remember that he is not an industrial hygienist or anything like that, but another hobbyist who has had really bad respiratory problems.

He has both financial and technical interests in the Clearvue brand of Cyclones. Keep that in mind when you read his comparison of cyclone designs.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

David, Steve, thanks for the response. David, I'd be curious to hear how the particle count comes out, your idea sounds interesting.

Steve, I thought so. I have a cheap Delta chip collector now, which I think make the dust worse. The small dangerous stuff anyhow.

What do you guys use for DC on a table saw? There always is dust that comes off the top of the blade, will more CFM help, or do you use a over the balde DC device of some sort?

[Steven Wilson]

What do you guys use for DC on a table saw? There always is dust that comes off the top of the blade, will more CFM help, or do you use a over the balde DC device of some sort?

Well more CFM is always good. You need to collect dust from above the blade as well as the cabinet. If you're shoping for a tablesaw take a look at how they collect from the cabinet. Unfortunately dust collection is an afterthought on most American style cabinet saws and generally consists of a 4" port on the cabinet and no ducting to get right next to the blade.

[Keith Spaniel]

I dont know how serious your are, but i bought the HF dc for about $200.
After a couple of weeks the suction was a bit less so i went outside to the dumpster to empty the bags, it was ony 1/4 full. I turned the bags inside out to shake all the dust out (no micron bags) as i shaked the bag more and more, dust kept blowing out and on me .I thought Id better get smart and get away from this dust so i ran into the wind down the alley while shaking the bags to clear all the dust out of them.I didnt see anyone watching but im sure i heard them laughing...what dust i didnt get in the shop i got emptying the bags..
I then got a little penn state cyclone and cant believe how much better they are.theres a cardboard can to empty instead of bags, and the cartridge filter is cleaned with the dc.. I have a couple of $15.00 box fans with pleated filters,wood mag. did a review of air cleaners and the box fan wasnt to bad.
I read some one say that they have never regretted a good tool that they have bought. keith