Trading DOWN: 20" Planer to 15" Planer?

[Edward Garrett]

I currently have an almost new 20" planer (Grizzly 0454) that I bought in November....I am very satisfied with it and it works great. Nevertheless, I have been seriously considering trying to sell this 20" jointer to get a smaller 15" model to save space, and to possibly give myself an opportunity to upgrade to a (pre-installed) Shelix cutterhead on the Grizzly 15" model (either the G1021X2 or the G0453Z). I THINK this would be less expensive all around than saving-up to get a 20" Shelix cutterhead, depending on how much I can get for the 20" planer.

I have an 8" jointer, and I am planning on getting a dual drum sander (25" or 26"). I am a hobbyist woodworker, and I do msotly cabinets and furniture (desks, tables, etc.)....I work mostly with Maple and Cherry.

Any opinions/suggestions would be appreciated....and yes - feel free to call me a crazy new tool monger.

[Al Willits]

Just wondering if your gonna save all that much room and get that much of a better surface to be worth all this?

Seems my standard bladed 15" planer makes a nice surface that needs little sanding to make smooth, your getting a drum sander, and once though should remove what little cut marks are there, least on my set up it does.

Just a thought.

Al

[James Hart]

Ed,

I just showed your post to my wife. She thinks I'm nuts with all the stuff I cram into the garage.

After reading your post, she hugged me and smiled at me.

Thank you,

Jim

[Edward Garrett]

Glad to be of service Jim....:D

[Grant Lasson]

Ed,

I got an 0454 last summer. Instead of the shelix I got the Grizzly carbide insert cutter head. I installed it myself. It seems like it took a couple of hours to do. I highly recommend it. 20" planer does take a lot of room but so will a 15". From a monetary perspective, I think you'll lose enough on your 0454 to buy the Grizzly cutter head. As for the shelix theory about shearing--I don't buy it (although I'm sure it's a great cutter head). Figured woods, by definition, have grains that go all directions. The slight shear angle on a shelix is a purely theoretical advantage. In practice, there will be no difference.

[Jim Solomon]

Ed,

I don't buy it (although I'm sure it's a great cutter head). Figured woods, by definition, have grains that go all directions. The slight shear angle on a shelix is a purely theoretical advantage. In practice, there will be no difference.

Grant,
Is this from your experience or your opinion? I ask because I planned on getting a Byrd this fall for my DJ 20.:confused: I have heard the opposite from users , but value any input.
Jim

[Edward Garrett]

Thanks Grant, I was kind of wondering how the Grizzly carbidecutterhead performed vs. the Shelix....and I am a bit anxious about the install of the Shelix cutterhead fater reviewing a set of instructions I found on-line.

The financials I am "crunching" are:

#1 - Selling the 20" for ~$900 (70% of new price of $1,295). A new 15" would be $1,295...the difference being $395.

#2 - The cost of a 20" Shelix cutterhead is $850....$850 vs. $395. The cost of a 20" spiral carbide insert cutterhead from Grizzly is $650....$650 vs. $395.

I live close enough to Grizzly to drive to pick these up at the show room (but yes, this means 6% sales tax).

GRANTED, I know that at the end of the day this is 20" vs. 15" and what I could get for my used 20" planer is an estimate. But in retrospect I just do not know if I really need to 20" planer now that I have decided on the drum sander, and I want to "settle" this before I eventually make the leap to upgrade the 20" planer with a new cutterhead (probably later this year).....and yeah, the space savings may be more of me trying to rationalize this than anything else.:rolleyes:

[Don Abele]

The slight shear angle on a shelix is a purely theoretical advantage. In practice, there will be no difference.

Grant, I have to respectfully disagree with you. At work we have a 36" double sided planer that we recently switched to shelix-type heads (at a cost of almost $50,000). The reason we switched was we need to do some serious work using live oak and the four-bladed carbide head just tore it out and dulled VERY quickly. The shelix head cuts it like pine and leaves very little tear out.

Personally, I just upgraded my jointer to a Byrd head and have noticed a significant decrease in the tear out in figured wood, including some wickedly wild maple I used on a prior table project (that could only be control with hours of hand work with a cabinet scraper).

Not only that, but loosening a set screw and rotating an insert is a lot faster (and more economical) than shifting or replacing a standard blade.

Be well,

Doc

[John Thompson]

I just ran two glued up 19 1/2" chest of drawer end panels through my 20" planer. Unless my math is off, they couldn't be done with a 15" planer. I won't get involved in the true value of the varikous cutter-heads as I run straight blades and have no issue with what comes out the outbound side.

Sarge..

[Grant Lasson]

Grant,
Is this from your experience or your opinion? I ask because I planned on getting a Byrd this fall for my DJ 20.:confused: I have heard the opposite from users , but value any input.
Jim

Jim, this is my experience. My experience is with the Grizzly cutterhead and not a Shelix. On that cutterhead, I haven't experienced tearout much at all. I think there are two major reasons (my opinion). First, the major advantage seems to be the narrow, sharp blade coupled with the sequential attack by each cutter. Second, I normally get a shearing cut action with the Grizzly because the board will be pulled to a skew attack by the forces applied to the board by the sequential attack of the cutter blades. Thus, I'm as likely to get a shear cut with the Grizzly as on is with a Shelix. (Again, figured wood isn't straight grained anyway so why would the slight skew angle of the Shelix be a better guarantee of an attack angle than the non-skew angle of the Grizzly on figured wood?)

There are two cases in which the skew angle doesn't occur: ~20" wide panels and gang planing 20" of materials. I have done a bunch of 20" wide panels and experienced nothing but a very nice cut. The finished surface reminded me of a newly mowed baseball field: I could see where the individual cutters had been but could not feel any ridges with my hands. I haven't gang planed that much material so I couldn't comment on that circumstance.

Two clarifications: First, though I don't have any experience with the Shelix, I'm sure it does a fantastic job too. Second, a jointer is different than a planer. The fence holds the material at a fixed angle to the cutterhead so there will be a greater "non-theoretical" difference between the Shelix and the Grizzly. It is my hypothesis that the shearing angle would not make a major improvement in cut quality on edges. Since I've switched to hand jointing on a LV BU Jointer, I may never know.

[Grant Lasson]

....and I am a bit anxious about the install of the Shelix cutterhead fater reviewing a set of instructions I found on-line.

... I just do not know if I really need to 20" planer now that I have decided on the drum sander...

Ed, I was a little nervous too but I didn't find the job overly difficult. I did order new bearings so that I wasn't supposed to need to remove the originals from the old cutterhead. (Bearings are very inexpensive.) Unfortunately, Grizz CS wasn't perfect on this one. At their advice I ordered two of the same bearing (one for each end) and they aren't the same so I ended up removing one bearing and reinstalling it. If I hadn't needed to do that the job would have been fairly easy. (I found a piece of PVC sprinkler pipe that fit perfectly on the bearings so they weren't damaged at all during installation. I also bought new gear oil at Auto Zone.)

As to need... well you're the best judge of that. I've got a lot of casework on my docket and 20" seems perfect for that work. Personally, I wouldn't want to lose the flexibility for ~$250.

[Grant Lasson]

Grant, I have to respectfully disagree with you. At work we have a 36" double sided planer that we recently switched to shelix-type heads (at a cost of almost $50,000).

Doc

Don, sorry to hear that you wasted $50K for nothing!:D

On a more serious note, I'm sure all you say is true. However, my comparison comments were not directed at the difference between 4 bladed cutterheads and the shelix-type heads. I'm sure those differences are huge. I'm a believer too--I installed a carbide insert cutterhead too and have experienced much better results.

I was attempting to build the case for Ed that he didn't necessarily need the Shelix cutterhead to get great results and that by changing his working assumptions, his financial case for selling the 20" wasn't as strong as he was thinking.

[Jim Solomon]

Thanks Grant and Don for clearing things up for me. I highjacked Edward's thread, Sorry Edward! My friend Don, that I get my rough cut wood from, has a powermatic Jointer. He installed a Byrd and showed me how it did on birds eye maple. It was smooth as silk. That was what sold me. Also I could skew my jointer fence slightly if needed. I usually "wet" the figured board before I plane or joint anyway and that does seem to help. Again. Sorry Ed for highjacking your post...my bad:o
Jim

[Edward Garrett]

No problem on the "hijack" Jim...everything is a learning experience for me! Ed

[Edward Garrett]

Thanks genst...looks like I will stick with the 20" planer for now :rolleyes:

[Chas Richter]

I ordered that 15" planer with the Shelix head from Grizzly in early Dec. They keep moving the delivery out by a month at a time. Two days ago they told me they won't be getting the shipment till March 7. I should have held onto my old planer till I got the new one. It sucks not having a planer.

[Don Abele]

Chas, what model did you order? Right now I'm trying to decide on either purchasing the G1021X2 to replace my Ridgid 13" or buying the Grizzly G0634 Combo unit to replace both my planer and 6" Jet Jointer. I have a thread going discussing it. If the model I listed is back ordered, it might make my decision a little easier.

Be well,

Doc