Need Help with Dust Collection

[Kyle Tucker]

I was hoping someone out there could help me with a problem I am having. I have a Craftsman 22124 hybrid table saw (Beisemer fence model). It has the 4" port at the bottom which I have connected to a 1-1/2 HP Jet Dust Collector, which is about 8 feet or so from the saw. The main problem (other than the sawdust cannot find it's way into the port without me pushing it in) is that I am getting an excessive amount of sawdust coming back at me. Unless I'm using a dado set or if I have the blade at any angle, I always use a zero-clearance insert. I looked at some new saws a couple weeks ago for ideas, and the new Powermatic PM2000 seems to have a great system inside the cabinet, with about a 2-1/2" or 3" diameter hose connected to an assembly below the blade. I have not seen this used but I assume it works pretty well. Does anyone out there have any ideas or suggestions that would help? Anything would be much appreciated. Thanks.

[Bruce Wrenn]

For air to come out the bottom, it has o come in the top. Drill a couple of holes in your ZCI for the air to go through.

[Jason Beam]

Trouble with the holes in the ZCI is that when you're using the saw, you're likely covering those holes with the wood yer cuttin'. Plus, I suspect there are some vents already in the saw cabinet as well as some seepage allowed between the table itself and the cabinet base.

Let's check out your dust collector for just a second. Is it new? Does it have bags on it? Are they pretty clean? Does it have a canister? Is it sufficiently "thumped" clear? What kinda hose are ya usin' to the saw? Is it pretty bumpy inside? Is it connected to anything but the saw? Can you think of any other places that the DC may be sucking air from that might degrade the performance at your saw's port?

[Mike Goetzke]

Kyle - I used to have a 22124 too. I might have the same DC too - a Jet DC-1100C. I almost immediately added a SharkGuard and it was almost dustless. When the saw was new I kept inspecting the inside of the cabinet for dust and did find it tended to accumulate somewhat. One thing I did was use some cable ties to get the motor cord from laying on the bottom of the inside of the saw - it tended to damn the dust. I also found accumulated dust in the cabinet never really increased above a certain amount. I now have a Unisaw and there is much less dust in the cabinet even though the design is very similar to the 22124. Only thing I noticed different was that the Uni has a nice slick painted sheet metal interior and the 22124 as I remember had some plastic pieces that weren't as slick.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/mbg/22124%20Sale/th_IMG_0277_2_2_1.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/mbg/22124%20Sale/IMG_0277_2_2_1.jpg)


Mike

[Kyle Tucker]

Hello Jason,

My dust collector is a Jet DC-1100C. It has the dual inlets, both of which I am using but there is a blast gate at each opening - both are never opened at the same time. The collector has the plastic bag for the particles, and the DustDawg canister which I "thump" regularly. The hose is the 4" clear flexible Jet hose with the ground wire integrated. With the way my shop is / needs to be set up I unfortunately cannot dedicate a 4" to 6" pipe to my saw. Unless there is a minor amount of leakage at the connections, I can't think of any place I would be losing suction.

Thanks,
Kyle

[Terry Sparks]

Hi Kyle, I have a 22124 and I had the same problem I think you have, which can be solved, at least by 90%, by properlyadjusting your blade height for the thickness of your stock. Once I got in the habit of doing this (I still get lazy once in awhile), the problem became almost a non issue with me.

[Norman Pyles]

Yep, you need some kind of overhead dust collection. I am in the process of installing a PSI dust hood to my Delta, because of the same problem.

[Anthony Whitesell]

I will be interested in the outcome of this question. I have a 1952-1954 Craftsman table saw. I sealed the bottom with a piece of 1/2" plywood and put in a 4" dust port and noticed the same result, dust collecting in the corners. I thought it was due to too many openings as this saw was made pre-home dust collectors. So for a test, I cleaned out the saw and gathered a bunch of scrap wood and a installed cheap blade. I wrapped a trash bag around the saw to seal the base completely and spent 15 minutes making little scraps out of big scraps. I removed the bag to check the results. NOTHING changed. I still had piles of saw dust in the base of the saw.

When I choose the hood for my tablesaw, I selected the cheapest (which was also the smallest) one available because none of them would fit my saw exactly. They were either too wide or too short. I used a piece of plyood with a hole in the middle for a small 4" jointer hood. I am in the process of building a router table and looking at the dust hoods that are available to find one for the router table. I noticed that all the hoods are all beveled near the mounting flange, so I am wondering if I would re-make my flat plywood dust hood to be more funnel shaped with some bevels around the perimeter. Perhaps the dust port should be off center either to the front or back. Based on the trunion location in the middle of the saw, perhaps it should be shifted to the right side of the saw. (there won't be much dust created on the opposite side of the trunion side from the blade)

One thing that I found helped a little was to put a "baffle" in the bottom of the saw. Because the dust port is vertical, I placed a piece of 2x4 in the base of the saw behind the blade and at the back edge of the dust port. My thought was that the dust would slow down and allow the airflow to the DC to suck them up. It made the back worse but helped with the build up in the front half of the saw and with the amount of dust flying off the top of the blade.

I am also looking for a better solution to a similar situation. Any ideas are welcome.

[Michael Weber]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't see the problem of having a little sawdust in the bottom of your saw cabinet. It's just the airflow patterns inside the cabinet and not necessarily a bad dust collection system. It's limited in amount and after it collects in the corners won't get any worse. Keeping the shop floor and your lungs clean are the issues. I agree, a dust hood/guard will reduce the amount thrown off the blade on top.

[Bruce Pennell]

I have a craftsmans contractor style saw. I use gorilla tape to cover my adjustment slot (have to pull it off to adjust blade) adds a little PITA factor but really improves the suction on the dust. Had to also close the rear of the saw, used two pieces of plastic and gorilla tape. Used a 4" port on a piece of ply on bottom sealed all joints with tape. Hope my 2 cents helps. Bru

[Kyle Tucker]

Thanks to all for your suggestions thus far.

Kyle

[mike wacker]

Kyle,

Which is your main concern? Dust in the cabinet or dust coming back at you?

I assume the dust in your face is more of a concern. I'd check two things. First I double and triple check the alignment of the saw blade to your miter grooves. If it is off the tail end of the blade will be cutting the side of your saw curf on the "upswing" and adding to the dust in your face. Second I'd make sure the cabinet is not too leaky or too tight that the DC can get the appropriate air flow to move the debris. Remeber too tight is as bad as not tight enough as DC relies on air flow as much as vacum.

[Kyle Tucker]

Thanks Mike. Yes - my main concern is the dust/particles coming back at me. The dust in the cabinet is of little concern.

[Peter Quinn]

Same problem with my pm66. Worked in a big shop with a monster DC cyclone, thing was piped in spiral steel 18" main trunk...would suck in a small dog if it got too close. By the time you got down to that 4" hose on the TS or shaper it just cant move enough air in that big open cabinet to keep all the dust down. Remember, you have two handwheels coming through that cabinet breaking the vacuum too. I made a sort of brush system to close those holes once trying to improve performance, just got in my way.

Maybe 60%-70% of dust at best on any circular saw blade machine gets trapped in the dust catcher? The rest stays in the blades gullets and comes flying back at you. Some setups are worse than others. I think the blade guard collector is the only meaningful way to catch it all. That new PM2000 setup looks like the first new idea in a long time for TS dust collection. Felder has a similar setup under the table of their shaper, works great in the video they sent. Seems like some blades kick less dust than others, maybe the gullet design?

[Kev Godwin]

Kyle, I have the same saw and was having the same problem at first. I solved the majority of the problem of dust coming back at me by sealing the majority of the cabinet openings with aluminum duct tape but left the top of the red plastic motor access door open.

The DC now pulls the majority of the air across the blade from the right and down to the shoot. I also use some sheet magnet material to partially close the blade tilt slot and that helps too. By doing this, I had very little dust coming back at me and the collection really improved even with my Jet DC-650.
Kev

[Jay Brewer]

Hi Kyle, welcome. The problem isnt your dust collector, its the design of the dust port on the saw. Sticking a port at the bottom, so far away from the blade is a silly idea, Kindda like laying the hose on the ground and expecting it to suck up chips 3 ft away.The only thing it will catch is what was going to fall to the bottom anyway. The overhead guard is the way to go. I built a shroud around the bottom of the blade on a Grizzly cabinet saw, connected to the shroud with 3" hose down to the original 4" dust port. Another plus was you could unhook the hose from the shroud and vaccum inside the cabinet. Look at the Saw Stop and PM 2000 for some ideas on what the shroud will look like, Hope this helps.