More Kickback

[Tyler Howell]

Happened in the blink of an Eye. This ain’t no Sh**.:eek:
I was preparing the setup board for the installation of my second Micro Jig M.J. Splitter.
Eye protection, ear protection, over arm blade guard, push stick and feather boards all in their proper place.;)

Just as the setup board cleared the blade, as if in slow motion the finished cut climbed over the blade and came spinning back at me. :confused: I was standing off to the side as instructed years ago but the board caught me on the left side. All I could see was that board stuck in the door of Brian Knop’s shop.:(
New 'Emergency Stop' on saw works great. The scrap stayed secure on the feather board. I began a thorough secondary survey (EMT speak) for injuries. A little tender at this moment but all is right with the world.
2 new M.J. Splitters are installed on both ZCIs (zero Clearance inserts).
The search intensifies for a new saw with splitter and pawls.
"Honest Honey, even with all my safety equipment this saw is dangerous":p

[Jim Becker]

'Hope the soreness goes away quick and I'm glad you didn't get hurt too badly!

Push "stick" bothers me...if whatever you are using isn't able to hold the workpiece down on the table at the same time as you are pushing, you tend to loose control once you pass the blade and have a much flatter angle. All my "push" devices are blocks that literally are in contact with the workpiece for several inches at least even after it clears the blade. They have handles that your fingers grip around.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Glad you weren't hurt worse Tyler...I had a kickback happen a year or so ago, but since I was standing to the side as usual, the old truck got it in the grill.:D

[Dean Baumgartner]

Glad everything is still in one piece Tyler. Kind of makes you stop and think doesn't it.

Are you an active EMT?

I was for 3 years on a volunteer squad but we moved and I'm no longer near enough to do that. Kind of miss it now.


Dean

[Dick Parr]

Glad your OK Tyler. ;) Those can get the best of us even with all the saftey devices in place. :(

If the power to that saw is off for the night, a couple George Killian's Irish Red will help with that tender side. :D

[Jeff Skory]

Ouch! Glad to hear you're ok. When you say your left side I hope your talking about your abdomen or shoulder and not your face. :(

After my experience, it missed me but punched a hole in the door, I am now a firm believer in the GRRRipper.

The tablesaw is definitely the one piece of equipment in my shop that I spend the most time figuring out how I am going to cut each piece safely.

Take care.

[Terry Hatfield]

Tyler,

Gald you are OK...well semi OK anyway.

I just got my GRR-Rippers earlier this week. I am a believer after today's shop time.

Was the splitter in place when the kickback happened? If it was, did the kickback occur before the stock got to the splitter?

t

[Dave Richards]

Tyler, I'm glad you didn't take more damage than you did. Hope you recover soon. If it will help, I'll plead your case with your bride.

[Dale Thompson]

Tyler,
I'm glad to hear that you survived with minimal damage. I'm guessing that the biggest pain is to the ego. That's ALWAYS my problem except that I've been around long enough where I have no ego or self-esteem left. I don't mind the minor hurts or bloodshed in the shop. I will heal. The problem is that the shattered wood and the bloodstains on the wood do NOT! :mad:

I hope you're feeling better immediately. Thanks for sharing.

Dale T.

[Dale Thompson]

Tyler,
I fogot to warn you. Don't EVER let a "kickback" put a 2" dent in your wife's clothes dryer. Some years ago, that cost me a new drill press. ;) Wait a couple of days to laugh at me on this one. It may hurt a bit right now. :(

Dale T.

[Pat Salter]

Can you hit those high notes now? :D Glad to hear nothing permenant. I lost my left thumb to the first knuckle because of kickback. It made me a REAL believer in splitters and bladeguards. (that saw didn't have anything)

[Bob Marino]

Tyler,

Glad it wasn't worse. Had a minor kickback on the router table earlier today (workpiece attached to a template). Only a small cut, but it happens in less than a second!!! The Gripper is starting to look better to me.

Bob

[Tyler Howell]

Thanks Gents for your concerns,I’ll be playing the violin in no time……Couldn’t play before. :D I was focused and ready for the task. I swear I have been so safety conscious since I started reading this forum. Spent close to $1.5K on safety equipment and upgrades, because I wasn’t comfortable with my old methods of work

The irony is I was prepping to install the MJ Splitter which would have prevented this from happening. I was just lecturing one of my co workers about not using a blade guard and splitter.
Caught me on my rock hard abs, just below the ribs. My Six pack turned into a keg.:p
My reason for sharing this is a heads up and a CYA. It’s a little embarrassing for Mr. Safety here. :rolleyes: Thought I had done all the right things and still got nailed
What about placement ot the Grip tight feather boards?? OK :confused:
Terry this pic shows where the board was when it became air born
It was the one closest to the fence. The 1" scrap didn't move



Dick, great Idea.
Dale LMAO

[Terry Hatfield]

Tyler,

Thanks for the report. Are you super sore or what??? Ouch :eek:

I use the Grip Tites as well. Hopefully someone with some more experience than me will chime in soon, but I thought they were supposed to be entirely in front of the blade. The one directly beside the blade worry's me. It might have a tendency to close the kerf and actually make the kickback happen. I always keep mine in front of the blade.

Hope you get well soon!!!

Terry

[John Miliunas]

Yo, Tyler! Thanks for the "heads up" and very glad it wasn't much worse! I've had a couple minor ones with my old Delta CS but, knock on wood, been OK thus far in the new shop.

It would appear to me that you were doing all the right things, insofar as you could with the equipment you have. I think Terry's suggestion of the Grrrrrrripper may have alleviated the pain you're now having. Another thing I haven't done, but intend on doing soon is, make a mod for the fence, which would allow a featherboard to push down on the stock at the rear of the blade. I think that, besides a good splitter, keeping the piece from crawling back up the blade is key.

Hope all heals quickly! Take care, my friend! :cool:

[Michael Ballent]

I think that you are right about the Grip Tite being behind the blade... It can close the kerf and shoot the board back at you. I did not see the other feather board that applies pressure downward installed on either of the Grip Tites. The one behind the blade could have been installed so it would not apply side pressure and but downward pressure only...

Heal soon Tyler, I always enjoy your humor around here. All that yellow around your saw makes me think you are a DeWalt man ;)

Be Safe!!!
Michael

[Jeff Skory]

I'll give a third vote for the second grip-tite being the cause of this kickback. ALWAYS keep the featherboard on your side of the blade. Not next to it and not after it.

And add the GRRRipper to your $1.5K bill. :D

Heal quickly.

[Bruce Page]

Tyler, I feel your pain. Many, many years ago, before I had a brain, I was cutting a small piece of 6/4 oak on a vintage Unisaw. I was half way through the cut when I realized that the overhead non-floating guard was set too low. Instead of hitting the off button, I tried to back the oak piece out from the blade. Quicker than you can say duck, it slammed into my shoulder, knocking me back several feet and I was sore for a week. I hope you heal quicker.

[Joe Bourbois]

Hey Tyler, get to feeling better so those 6 pack abs will come back. I'm sure they're scared of you now.

And I think Terry is right about using the grip tite beyond the front of the blade. That could have been a reason for wake-up.

[Mark Singer]

Tyler,
Sorry to hear about it...really glad your ok! I just recently installed a splitter , but I haven't had any kickback problems for years! I really like the "Board Buddies" ...they hold the leading edge of the piece down....I usually use only one so my push stick can go thru the full blade path. I don't rip anything smaller than about 18" so it is held down....You need to get comfortable with the saw and it is difficult immediatley after a close call like that. Being tentative is not good though. Terry is correct any featherboard or grip tite should be used in the front half of the blade and not beyond. Grip tite has a plastic hold down that will bind the free cut offto the rear of the blade which is moving upward through the table. I also like a couple of thousands of an inch relief on the rear side of the blade, as compared with the front. I have set the saw that way for years and it still cuts parallel...but it relieves the piece as it moves through. I mentioned this the other day to Terry, and he adjusts for 100% parallel...but, it is safer and very common in shops and mills to set the blade at the rear as much as 1/64 "open". That said and one "board Buddy " set about 3" beyond the blade and your very good...add a splitter and a zero clearance insert and you shoud be golden! Small pieces rip on the bandsaw or with a hand saw. Sorry about the incident! If you have any questions email me.

[Tyler Howell]

Gents,
As my signature suggests: "I gotta lot to learn!" You all have been very helpful :)and I'll be wading right back into the Creek for another lesson.
My dad always said he had to get my attention with a 2x4. (he actually did once) This was only ½ BC ply, but the message was very clear.:eek:

Mark, I’ve got the Grip Tite metal plate for my Beis. aux fence. I use a feather board hold down for ripping long runs,

Dean, I stay out of the field unless forced into it . I keep my certs up and teach a class every now and then. I’ve been in emergency care for 39 years.

Pat , You make me shiver and sweat just reading your post. I guess that is part of the lessons learned too.:eek:

Mike, The only DeWalt in the shop is the DW 735 planer which I really like. The Craftsman gray is being pushed to the back of the shop or out the door as fast as I can.

Bruce, Ouch thank goodness those brains are delivered before too much damage is done.

All, Two new recently assembled Grrrippers were within arms reach..:rolleyes::o:o

Thanks again, This has given me a little more power.;)

[Bill Karow]

Tyler -

I'm glad you weren't injured worse, though I bet it felt like a mule kick!

All the safety discussions I've read here have definitely got me paying close attention, that's for sure. And that can't be anything but good.

My brother-in-law just moved (he's a flooring installer) and he left behind a stack of luan ply. Naturally, being a scavenger, I nabbed it all and figured I'd cut the usable chunks square, then scrap the rest. There were a few pieces I just couldn't come up with a safe way to square off, and rather than do something stupid I just added them directly to the scrap heap. It's not worth a few bucks to go against my self-preservation instincts, and I appreciate the reinforcement that message gets here. Hmm, at 43, I've *finally* learned to listen to that voice!!

Now it's time to finish assembling my new Grripper :)

Hope you heal quickly, Tyler. A couple of aspirin and a Sam Adams should help. Not necessarily in that order...

[Alan Turner]

The style of push stick in the pix is not my favorite. You might want to read the article by Steve Latta on ripping narrow molding and see the type of pusher he uses. They are 18" long MDF, with a notch, and high enough so your hand is above the fence. The front of the pusher keeps the stock flat to the table.
Hope you heal soon, and that you emotional side recovers also.
Alan

[Mark Singer]

Alan is correct, there is a common accident that occurs with that type of push stick....if the notch slips off the corner of the board your hand is headed downward toward the blade! This has happened to many woodworkers!! With an enlosed push board...only a hole for your hand it cannot happen. You can make it easily or buy one.

http://www.leevalley.com/images/item/woodworking/powertool/03j7550s1.jpg

[Jim Becker]

I, too, agree with Alan. That's what I was eluding to in my original post in this thread. The picture that Mark posted is similar to what I use, although the ones I use are shop-built from hardwood.

[Mark Mazzo]

Tyler,

I'm sorry to hear of your accident, but also glad to hear it was not worse.

The three things that I thought of after reading your post and seeing the pictures were: first, I never rip anything on the tablesaw shorter than about 18", I use the bandsaw instead; second you don't want any feather board (or grip-tite) support beyond the blade except maybe those installed on the fence pointing downward; and third I always use a push-stick (push-shoe)that has some kind of foward leg that holds the stock down to the table as well as pushing it foward.

I wondered if you also had the GRR-Rippers and did not use them (then I saw that you noted that you did in a later post). It seems that they are designed exactly for this type of cut (as well as narrow rips), because they hold both parts of the stock being cut.

Although I've considered getting some, I have not yet purchased them because I'm still "not comfortable with getting comfortable" with these types of cuts!

Thanks for posting about your mishap, it's helps us all remember to stay alert while in the shop. I hope that you heal quickly.

-- Mark

[Jeff Skory]

Tyler,

Although I've considered getting some, I have not yet purchased them because I'm still "not comfortable with getting comfortable" with these types of cuts!

-- Mark


Mark, I don't quite understand your logic here. I know what you are saying but that's kind of like saying "I won't wear a seatbelt because it makes me pay attention to my driving". Systems like the Gripper make the cut safer - but you still have to pay attention. It just helps reduce the "unexpected" from happening.

[Mark Singer]

Jeff,
Different Mark here...I know for me the Gripper takes a little getting used to. I have felt very safe and comfortable with my tablesaw techniques for years and anything new feels like a potential risk. The bandsaw is a much safer machine and for anything short I head for the bandsaw. If you are going to plane it anyway the result is the same. I can't even remember (knock wood) the last kickback I experienced. I have the Gripper and I am still more comfortable at the bandsaw...you are relying on friction and I have seen the gripper slipping on prefinished apple ply, granted it was slippery. A positive push stick would not slip!

[Tyler Howell]

Grrrippers Got a work out to night. Cut some 8ft French cleats for a cabinet hanging system in the shop. They take a little getting use to. Actually stopped and watched the DVD over before proceding.
Once bitten twice shy.
Play safe.;)

[Mark Mazzo]

Mark, I don't quite understand your logic here. I know what you are saying but that's kind of like saying "I won't wear a seatbelt because it makes me pay attention to my driving". Systems like the Gripper make the cut safer - but you still have to pay attention. It just helps reduce the "unexpected" from happening.

Hi Jeff,

Sorry, I guess that I did not really express that thought very well. What I was trying to say is that I'm still not comfortable with moving my overhead guard out of the way and running my hands over the top of the sawblade for a cut (even with a GRR-Ripper in my hands). Especially on short work pieces, the risk of injury from slipping and/or kickback are just too high for me. I am concerned that using the GRR-Ripper for this type of cut might make me get overconfident and careless when doing so.

Yes, I do sometimes need to do this when cutting with a dado blade, but in that case, the blade is either partially burried in a sacrificial fence or it is a non-through cut on the board.

With a push-shoe-type of push-stick, there is a distinct lip to positively push the stock through the blade, so there less chance that it may slip. Also, a push-shoe moves my hands well away from the blade and usually my guard can stay in place (the splitter can almost always stay in place). I can also see that the GRR-Ripper can allow this (especially with the new splitter that MicroJig offers). However, I'd never rip a short (less than 18") piece with a push stick. Even with the GRR-Ripper I would still be leary of doing this. Maybe that's paranoia, but I have not experienced a kickback since one I had the first month I had my table saw. That scared the heck out of me and and I never care to experience one again.

I may eventually get the GRR-Ripper and the DVD. Maybe that would help me better understand how this device would work best for me. However, for short rip cuts I'd still just much rather use the bandsaw. and clean them up with a hand plane.

--Mark

[Mark Mazzo]

Jeff,
Different Mark here...I know for me the Gripper takes a little getting used to. I have felt very safe and comfortable with my tablesaw techniques for years and anything new feels like a potential risk. The bandsaw is a much safer machine and for anything short I head for the bandsaw. If you are going to plane it anyway the result is the same. I can't even remember (knock wood) the last kickback I experienced. I have the Gripper and I am still more comfortable at the bandsaw...you are relying on friction and I have seen the gripper slipping on prefinished apple ply, granted it was slippery. A positive push stick would not slip!

Mark,

Well put. That's basically what I was try to convey. I'd be interested to hear more about how you're using the GRR-Ripper and if the DVD was a help for you in terms of stepping outside of your normal ways of doing things.

--(the other) Mark

[Greg Wandless]

Tyler,

Glad to hear your OK. Kinda ironic that this happened making something that would eliminate it from happening. Kinda like a Catch-22 :)
Anyway glad you were not seriously injured. Start practicing that violin.

Cheers,
Greg