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View Full Version : Any Equine Trainers or owners around???



Dennis Peacock
02-04-2008, 12:11 PM
My daughter is big into horses. She just ordered a full set of Horse Training DVD's from some lady who's famous on training/showing horses.
I'd like to find a "safe" and knowledgeable Equine Forum to get my daughter in so to aid her in her learning. She's 16 years old....so it needs to be an environment much like SMC.

Any horse people out there that can help me out???

Phyllis Meyer
02-04-2008, 12:18 PM
Hi Dennis,

I will contact my niece (she lives and goes to college in Kansas). It may be a few days before I can get a hold of her, and I'm not sure how far exactly you would be from her, but...she actually trains and has her horses with her. She is an excellent horse person, and maybe your daughter and her can correspond. My niece has enough trophies and ribbons to fill a barn! What kind of horse/horses do you have?

Phyllis:)

Mike Cutler
02-04-2008, 12:38 PM
Dennis

I'm fairly active on two horse boards.

"After the Races" is a board that is primarily focused on OTTB's, or Off The Track thoroughBreds. I have an ex race horse that is being trained for dressage.
The board is a good group of folks that got tired of the BS at COTH, "Chronicle of the Horse" board, so they started their own forum. Even if she/you doesn't own an ex racer. The board is still good for all the horse care,riding stuff.

COTH is a very darwinian society. Survival of the fittest and strongest. Great board for accomplished horse people. Not great for new people. Very little tolerance. Still, it is one of the best boards for all things horse. Just tread lightly for awhile.

"Equisearch" is another good forum. It's been going through some "growing pains" the past few months. Hopefully things settle out. Jayne Pedrigo, whom moderates the board, is a really good person. Great core group of folks, but sometimes the trolls stroll in.

You won't know this answer right off, but what discipline is she primarily interested in?

Dennis Peacock
02-04-2008, 1:03 PM
My daughter only owns one horse. Her horse is a Missouri Fox Trotter named Oreo. After owning the horse for about a year now, she just recently got the paperwork on Oreo.

Amanda's primarily interested in learning horse training for beginner horse trainer types and she's trying to figure out how to get Oreo to take a "bit". Oreo does not like taking a bit at all.!!!!! So Amanda is wrestling with her on various things. Amanda also really wants to learn how to train her horse dressage.

Mike Cutler
02-04-2008, 1:15 PM
By not "taking the bit", is Oreo not accepting the bit when being tacked up. or is he not "taking the bit" once mounted?
To confuse you even more there is "On the bit", "Behind the bit", and "In front of the bit".
What type of bit is she using on Oreo? He may not like that bit, or it isn't fitted properly. Maybe changing it out for a sweet bit for arena work may help with his bit avoidance. Our horse loves his bit, and usually doesn't want to give it back.

For videos or books on learning/traing. Anything by Julie Goodnight, Leslie Desmond, Tom Dorrance, Buck Brannahan, and Craig Cameron are great sources. No Nonsense approaches that treat the horse as an individual.
Centered Riding by Sally Knight ( I think that's her name) is an excellent book.

Jim Becker
02-04-2008, 1:23 PM
I can't help with online sources, Dennis, but I can tell you that around there, every other farm is either into nursery stock or horses! That said, I'm interested in the responses as Nastia, in particular, is taken with horses and will likely spend this summer in horse camp again.

Dennis Peacock
02-04-2008, 1:24 PM
Here's a picture of her horse.

She'll be 2 years old in March of this year.

Amanda thinks the bit type is a "snaffle" type bit (spell??) and won't take the bit when being tacked up. She keeps trying to get the bit out with her tougue the entire time it's in her mouth. Amanda tried to ride her once with the bit in her mouth and she started to rear with her.

I don't have any idea about bit "types" and maybe a sweet bit is what we need to try....so what IS a sweet bit? Inquiring minds wanna know. :D

Mike Cutler
02-04-2008, 1:51 PM
A few things to consider.

"Snaffle" is indeed a bit. There are two piece snaffles, three piece snaffles, D-ring snaffles, egg-butt snaffles, one more, but the name is escaping me.

A horse that rears with the bit in it's mouth is responding to the pressure. Primarily the back pressure.
Horses respond to pressure avoidance. When the horse is "on the bit", there is enough pressure to bring their head into a somewhat vertical plane to the ground, which forces the hindquarters to have to reach under the horses body more to balance. This is known as "collection". It is a lot of work for a horse, and they have to build up the muscle to do it.
If the pressure continues to be applied once the horse has "avoided" the initial pressure by collecting itself. The head will move back closer to the chest so that the horse can avoid the pressure. When pressure on the bit is increased, accompanied with a proper signal from the legs the horse will move backward, but the key here is not to have continuous pressure. Pressure and release, pressure and release. Communicate with the horse through the bit.

If the pressure on the bit is applied too quickly, the horse cannot respond quick enough and "goes up" to avoid the pressure on the bit, and can actually flip over backward. This is extremely dangerous,and your daughter has shown excellent judgement to resolve the issue through understanding the dynamic involved, rather than just force the horse, and risk an explosion. Kudos to her. She's well ahead of a lot of horse people.

If everything is being done in a very slow methodical manner and Oreo is still being difficult, you may need to bring the vet in and float the teeth, or see if there are wolf teeth that are being bothered by the bit, and need to be removed.
You may also need to measure Oreo's mouth to make sure that the bit is the right size and is not pinching his mouth at the corner creases
Once that is ruled out, you may want to start experimenting with bits. Sprenger is an excellent name in bits. They make a three piece D-ring snaffle that is copper with silver coating.

Bit's are a tool. They need to apply equal pressure to bothe sides simultaneously. Cheap bits are often "unbalanced" this means the the distance from the outside edge of the bit to the center of the horses mouth is not equidistant on both sides, and is putting uneven pressure on the horses mouth and sending a mixed message of signals to the horse.

One more possibility is that Oreo is jerking her chain and is just trying to avoid work. To find this out though, you'll need to have a trainer ride Oreo with the current bit and see if the same result is obtained. Horses can be real jerks sometime, and will always test you to see of you are dominant to them.
Your daughter has to fix her place in Oreo's mind as the "Lead Mare".

Horses are very interesting creatures.

Al Wasser
02-04-2008, 3:03 PM
Go visit your county extension agent. Get her into a 4-H Club with other horse folks/kids. She can have contact with others who have horses, much like we want contact with others who do wood stuff. A fox trotter has a unique gait that really covers the country once she learns how to get the horse into that gait. That gait and dressage may not get along. You thought that a lathe was an expensive hobby--- horses have to be worse! You buy the horse, the saddle, a horse trailer, they eat all the time and need new shoes every 6 weeks or so, their teeth floated periodically, the vet bill when they cut themselves, etc Good Luck

Dennis Peacock
02-04-2008, 4:44 PM
Lots of good info here to chew on for a while. We'll start researching the various bits and will talk around here to gather more information.

Jim Becker
02-04-2008, 5:14 PM
Dennis, beautiful horse. It does strike me suddenly that she's also quite young. Perhaps this is a training issue with the animal so I second the suggestion for a trainer to be consulted on the bit issue.

Joe Chritz
02-04-2008, 6:35 PM
To bad you aren't in MI as the trainer we use is one of the best around in my opinion.

4H can be great if the leader is a good person. I know some 4H people who are either very old school (ride em until they submit) or don't know any other way to do training.

I am very new to horses but if it was a dog I would be all over it.

Joe

Mike Cutler
02-04-2008, 10:07 PM
You thought that a lathe was an expensive hobby--- horses have to be worse! You buy the horse, the saddle, a horse trailer, they eat all the time and need new shoes every 6 weeks or so, their teeth floated periodically, the vet bill when they cut themselves, etc Good Luck

So Al,,,, It sounds like you might know a little on the subject.;)

A discussion with a non-horse friend

Friend: So you wake the horses up in the morning to feed them?

Me: Yep

Friend: Then you turn them out so that they can eat all day?

Me: Yep

Friend: Then you bring them in at nite to feed them?

Me: Yep

Friend: Then why are you worried if they aren't pooping? I'd think you'd be happy.

Me: A horse that doesn't poop can cost you $5K. :eek:,;)

Al Wasser
02-05-2008, 10:44 AM
Very true! Horses have a nasty habit of getting into trouble. They get cut, eat the wrong stuff or too much. I often wondered how the wild horses survived.

keith ouellette
02-05-2008, 12:20 PM
We are not horse trainers but we do have a very old horse. I would send a picture but the camera is on loan.

His name is Whisky Jack. He is part quarter horse, about 15 1/2 hands.
He is 34YEARS old and my wife has owned/cared for him since he was 3. Two years ago was the first time she has had him at her own home.

We almost lost him a few months ago. He had colic and our vet was out of town. The replacement vet (Younger than our horse by the way) wanted to put him down right away. She hadn't even administered any IV fluids. I demanded a second opinion. She called another vet and then gave him fluids. After 15 liters or so he came around and then got to his feet soon after. He's been fine since. Believe it or not it was his very first colic and he is only missing 2 teeth. For his age he is in great shape.

He is really no more than a thousand pound dog. He is spoiled rotten and gets treats all the time from us and neighbors. He hasn't been ridden in I don't know how long